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5th Grade Math Help
CA State Approved 5th Grade Math | Sep 15, 2010 | Me

Posted on 09/15/2010 8:41:36 PM PDT by Fundamentally Fair



TOPICS: Education
KEYWORDS: california; fractions; funwithfractions; homeschool; homework; jethrobodine; math; mathematics; metric; metricsystem; nea; teachers
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My daughter is in the 5th grade in California. Her school uses the state mandated math book and work book. I've been concerned about the teaching techniques up to this point.

Tonight my daughter was showing me a number line technique for determining if fractions are equal, or if one is greater than the other.

As far as I'm concerned the technique is faulty for several reasons. I'll post those after a few Freepers comment.

1 posted on 09/15/2010 8:41:38 PM PDT by Fundamentally Fair
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Why are meters different for boys and girls?


2 posted on 09/15/2010 8:43:28 PM PDT by keepitreal ( Good manners never go out of style)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

I’m just confused as to which length is a meter. I don’t know that it matters, but the different lengths might confuse a fifth grader.


3 posted on 09/15/2010 8:45:01 PM PDT by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch ( T.G., global warming denier.)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

White men can’t jump [as far as white girls].


4 posted on 09/15/2010 8:46:13 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Things will change after the revolution, but not before.)
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To: keepitreal
Why are meters different for boys and girls?

Affirmative action.

5 posted on 09/15/2010 8:46:58 PM PDT by Fundamentally Fair (If exercising the right to free speech invites violence, then girls in short skirts invite rape.)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

The differing scales are misleading. Certainly 4/6 > 5/8.


6 posted on 09/15/2010 8:47:28 PM PDT by plymaniac (2010=1994)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Well, you don’t need more than 4th grade math in CA, anyway.


7 posted on 09/15/2010 8:48:45 PM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

4/6 should be farther, but it looks like if you mark it the way they want you to, you’ll think 5/8 is farther.


8 posted on 09/15/2010 8:49:42 PM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: Fundamentally Fair

It doesn’t require them to actually DO math.

Only to know how to count (and read).


9 posted on 09/15/2010 8:49:48 PM PDT by TauntedTiger (Keep away from the fence!)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Wow. Yank your kid out of public school.

And I support public schools - but my 4th grade daughter would laugh at this problem, as idiotic.


10 posted on 09/15/2010 8:53:16 PM PDT by patton (Obama has replaced "Res Publica" with "Quod licet Jovi non licet bovi.")
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To: Tuscaloosa Goldfinch

That may be the point. After counting the marks a student may say that 5/8 > 4/6. Perhaps the lesson is also to teach equivalence.


11 posted on 09/15/2010 8:53:59 PM PDT by stormer
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To: Fundamentally Fair

12 posted on 09/15/2010 8:56:08 PM PDT by ConservativeStatement (Obama "acted stupidly.")
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Well. There’s your regular meters and your Title IX meters.


13 posted on 09/15/2010 8:58:56 PM PDT by smokingfrog (freerepublic.com - Thanks JimRob! The flags are back! - 8/17/2010.)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Both lines would have to be the same length before meaningful comparisons could be made between the eights and sixths - this looks like some sort of bizarre semi-psychotic PC scam to show that boys and girls both can jump the same distance even though the numbers seem to show they can’t.....


14 posted on 09/15/2010 9:02:26 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Just wait 'til they teach her geometry.

15 posted on 09/15/2010 9:06:37 PM PDT by BulletBobCo
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To: Fundamentally Fair

The lengths of those jumps should have been made in decimeters, centimeters or decimal fractions of a meter. The point of the metric system is to avoid those “messy” 3rds, 6ths, 8ths, etc!


16 posted on 09/15/2010 9:07:35 PM PDT by MilicaBee
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To: Fundamentally Fair
Are they following this with lessons in fraction conversion with common denominators, etc?
17 posted on 09/15/2010 9:08:23 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Eagerly await your reasons for the faulty technique.


18 posted on 09/15/2010 9:09:55 PM PDT by RitaOK
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To: JenB

Another reason ping


19 posted on 09/15/2010 9:10:46 PM PDT by MilicaBee
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To: Fundamentally Fair
What books are they using? If they are using Turk or Everyday Mathematics be warned. They use these up here in many of the Washington schools. We had a hard time helping my son with his 2nd grade homework, us not understanding the algoryhtms.

We raised such a fuss about it they finally dropped them for this year.

Watch this video to see if this is what it is. Math Education: An Inconvenient Truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qee-bTZI

20 posted on 09/15/2010 9:13:43 PM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: Fundamentally Fair

4/6 = 2/3 of a meter
5/8 is smaller than 2/3 now if it was 6/8 then it would be the same since 6/8 is equal to 2/3.

So 4/6 is longer than 5/8


21 posted on 09/15/2010 9:21:05 PM PDT by Tamatoa (Fight for our America, Fight for our Country I fought to defend!!!)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

I know it’s a math problem but I couldn’t help noticing that the word ‘further’ was used. Fail. Further denotes a degree, farther is used when refering to a distance.

Oh, and I see that all scaled are equal but some scales are more equal than others in CA.


22 posted on 09/15/2010 9:26:55 PM PDT by filospinato
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To: Tamatoa

True, but the question should test the child’s understanding of fractions, not whether he can be tricked with a confusing and illogical illustration. This is horribly unfair, stupid question.


23 posted on 09/15/2010 9:28:02 PM PDT by MayfairFly ("Your total ignorance of that which you profess to teach merits the death penalty.")
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To: Fundamentally Fair

I understand the point that was being attempted, but the problem is with the illustration. The two lines should be equal lengths with one being divided into 8 parts, the other into 6.

But 8/8 is not equal to 6/6 in the illustration.


24 posted on 09/15/2010 9:29:41 PM PDT by zeebee
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To: Fundamentally Fair
It's an illusion:
25 posted on 09/15/2010 9:31:31 PM PDT by Cap&Ball
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Can someone explain to me why, according this graph, one meter equals 7/8 of a meter


26 posted on 09/15/2010 9:32:56 PM PDT by csense
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To: Fundamentally Fair

The way I was taught in 5th grade was to use a common denominator.
So 5/8 =15/24 and 4/6 = 16/24.
Therefore 4/6 is 1/24 more than 5/8.


27 posted on 09/15/2010 9:34:18 PM PDT by zeebee
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To: Cap&Ball

So as along as the lines are a couple miles apart, the graph makes sense?


28 posted on 09/15/2010 9:35:30 PM PDT by csense
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To: ConservativeStatement

Yes, I remember this guy very very well — the really stupid Democrat who, for every ballot in Florida during the recount that he picked up, had only one word to say — “Gore”.

You can see in the photo: there is no hole no mark no indentation yet this is probably also vote for Gore.

I read several books about the Florida recount — what a travesty. But they sure helped me see how Democrats think “meanwhile, tens of thousands of ballots were sitting in boxes all over Florida, uncounted, and the voices of all these African — Americans could not be heard”. I paraphrased a little bit but this is from that horrible Toobin book about the Florida recount.


By the way, the math problem is laughably incorrect. How could anybody be so stupid as to create two lines, both representing 1 m in length, but show them to be of different sizes?

It seems they want the children to count from the number one to the number of five, or from the number one to the number four and then compare the unequal results and “get the answer”.

Laughable.

Truly laughable.


29 posted on 09/15/2010 9:37:43 PM PDT by DontTreadOnMe2009 (So stop treading on me already!)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Brain-damaged. Why are the number lines different in length, if they are both supposed to represent one meter?


30 posted on 09/15/2010 9:42:09 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Fundamentally Fair
Tonight my daughter was showing me a number line technique for determining if fractions are equal, or if one is greater than the other.

It seems to me the purpose of this exercise is to show that number lines with different scales are not a good technique for determining the relative size of fractions.

Have they been taught how to determine the lowest common denominator and then convert the fractions to that denominator?

31 posted on 09/15/2010 9:44:09 PM PDT by stripes1776
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To: csense

The problem has one instruction and one question:
1> instruction: mark the graphs
2> answer who jumped farther.

The graph can be made sense of in 3-D by construction. You can find the answer while only knowing how to count up to eight.

It is California, there are very clever.


32 posted on 09/15/2010 9:46:44 PM PDT by Cap&Ball
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To: zeebee

I’ll take your word for it. I could of used you sitting next to me in 5th grade. But if you were to answer in that way instead of how the work book directs, you get a big fat “Wrong” from the teacher.


33 posted on 09/15/2010 9:56:59 PM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: BulletBobCo

post #15...i am dying of laughter over here! medic!!!


34 posted on 09/15/2010 10:42:31 PM PDT by Christian4Bush (Mike/Chris Wallace: Did you give in? Palin: "HELL NO!" 48 days til the midterms, if they're held..)
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To: NavyCanDo; Fundamentally Fair

I’d like to know what books they’re using, too.

The last I’d read, CA approved Singapore Math to be used as a math curriculum. It’s supposed to be a superior curriculum. We’ve never tried it, but I’ll be very surprised if this is a problem from one of those books.


35 posted on 09/15/2010 10:55:04 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes
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To: Tamatoa

“then it would be the same since 6/8 is equal to 2/3.”

I hope you are joking. 6/8 = 3/4 not 2/3


36 posted on 09/15/2010 11:19:15 PM PDT by Kellis91789 (Democrat: Someone who supports killing children, but protests executing convicted murderers.)
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To: Kellis91789

Too much wine, yes I meant to say 3/4... ooppps


37 posted on 09/15/2010 11:22:58 PM PDT by Tamatoa (Fight for our America, Fight for our Country I fought to defend!!!)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

It’s obvious Maisie jumped further as girls suffer from low self esteem and therefore had her meter adjusted to fit her own group. Also several cm. were added to her jump to normalize her score and reflect her struggle with oppression in a male dominated society.

The school should be sued for gender discrimination and possibly civil rights violations but she and her lawyer are willing to settle out of court.

This is Cal. you know.


38 posted on 09/16/2010 12:31:26 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: zeebee
I understand the point that was being attempted, but the problem is with the illustration. The two lines should be equal lengths with one being divided into 8 parts, the other into 6. But 8/8 is not equal to 6/6 in the illustration.

The first thing that I saw wrong with this technique is that using a number line to figure out which fraction is greater requires the fifth grader to draw a perfectly spaced and scaled set of lines on which to do the comparison.

They demonstrate that weakness with this problem by not making 1 meter equal 1 meter.

Finally, they use "further" rather than the correct "farther."

39 posted on 09/16/2010 5:46:31 AM PDT by Fundamentally Fair (If exercising the right to free speech invites violence, then girls in short skirts invite rape.)
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To: plymaniac
The differing scales are misleading. Certainly 4/6 > 5/8.

Yes, the drawing is confusing. .6667 > .625, but according to the drawing, the line segement representing 5/8 of the top line is longer than the line segment representing 4/6 of the bottom line.

Either the drawing was meant to decieve, or the person that wrote the math book is an idiot. Or possibly, both.

40 posted on 09/16/2010 6:16:55 AM PDT by meyer (Tax the productive to carry the freeloaders - What is it with democrats and slavery?)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Right! And then the answer is THE GIRL jumped further. Can’t be another answer. That’s the rules.

The rules of diversity math.


41 posted on 09/16/2010 6:22:44 AM PDT by bvw
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To: stripes1776
It seems to me the purpose of this exercise is to show that number lines with different scales are not a good technique for determining the relative size of fractions.

No. The indented purpose was to show the kids that they could use a number line to determine which fraction was greater.

Have they been taught how to determine the lowest common denominator and then convert the fractions to that denominator?

Yes. That was the second part of the lesson. They were taught to methods for working the problems, then had to work some problems with a number line and others by finding a common denominator and comparing.

42 posted on 09/16/2010 6:53:47 AM PDT by Fundamentally Fair (If exercising the right to free speech invites violence, then girls in short skirts invite rape.)
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To: RitaOK

See post 18. Agree? I’m senseing some sarcasm...


43 posted on 09/16/2010 6:55:37 AM PDT by Fundamentally Fair (If exercising the right to free speech invites violence, then girls in short skirts invite rape.)
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To: plymaniac

I think they are meant to be misleading. When using number lines, it’s specifically taught that they are not to scale, so students should not just try to “eyeball” a comparison like this. They’ve had similar visually misleading questions on the SAT for years.


44 posted on 09/16/2010 7:07:12 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: csense

Number lines are never meant to be taken as “drawn to scale”. Expecting them to be equal in length because they represent the same physical length is a common mistake, but it’s still a mistake.


45 posted on 09/16/2010 7:10:43 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Good grief! You can’t have the boy winning. Even if I didn’t know a blessed thing about fractions and common denominators, I’d still be able to pick the girl as the winner. Only in real life can a boy possess the ability to outjump a girl.


46 posted on 09/16/2010 7:15:15 AM PDT by old and tired
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To: Fundamentally Fair
First, 4/6 should be written 2/3.

Second, who the heck names their kid "Maisie" besides Uncle Buck's sister?

47 posted on 09/16/2010 7:22:43 AM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: Fundamentally Fair

48 posted on 09/16/2010 7:43:14 AM PDT by cuz_it_aint_their_money (I'll show their president the exact same respect and loyalty that they have shown my president.)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Refuse the assignment. The way the libs have pushed the metric system is that it is easier because it is based on 10s. Dividing metric measurments int 6ths and 8ths is so asinine it must come from public educators.


49 posted on 09/16/2010 8:06:20 AM PDT by ConservaTexan (February 6, 1911)
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To: Boogieman
Number lines are never meant to be taken as “drawn to scale”.

You can't compare two fractions on two number lines unless they are exactly the same scale and perfectly partitioned.

Try using a number line to determine which is greater 5/9 or 9/16.

That's really the point; you can use a number line to demonstrate the process, but mandating that the kids use the number line to solve the problem will only confuse them.

50 posted on 09/16/2010 8:30:01 AM PDT by Fundamentally Fair (If exercising the right to free speech invites violence, then girls in short skirts invite rape.)
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