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How to get your dishwasher back (Make phosphate detergent) Vanity
Self | 2/13/2011 | self

Posted on 02/13/2011 1:14:16 PM PST by dickmc

Pittsburgh isn’t even in the Chesapeake watershed. However, like everywhere else apparently phosphates have disappeared from dishwasher detergents. The result is dishes that aren’t particularly clean and feel ‘slimy’.

After some checking, I found that the disappeared phosphate content in dishwasher detergent was around six percent. On a recent visit to the plumbing supply store to get some parts, I found that they still had one pound boxes of the real TSP (trisodium phosphate Na3PO4); not the fake ersatz 'TSP' stuff that Home Depot is only selling. In fact, the real TSP is still available all over the net.

Not being able to find any phosphate containing dishwasher detergent at any grocery store, I decided to make my own. Here’s how:

1. Buy a large 7.5 pound bottle of gel type dishwasher detergent.

2. Dump in a bucket and add one-half of a one pound box of TSP. This will make a 6.25% mix of TSP in the detergent. (Actually the weight percent of Phosphate in TSP (Na3PO4) is 58% making the Phosphate in the mix 6.25 x 0.58 or 3.6% …but… that’s good enough for government work!)

3. Stir with a paint stick. If you want, add a half-cup of water to somewhat reduce the gel viscosity.

4. After about one minute of stirring, the TSP particles will be thoroughly distributed in the gel. (They don’t dissolve but that’s OK as long as they are evenly mixed.)

5. Put back in the bottle ...with the leftover in the empty bottle. (A funnel helps which I had from garage stuff.)

Tried it out yesterday.

.

VIOLA! The dishes are now 'squeaky' clean with no slime film. Also, the dishwasher insides now look clean again.

Enjoy the info.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Health/Medicine; Miscellaneous; Science
KEYWORDS: dishwasher; phosphate; tsp; vanity
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To: wintertime

Check Lowes. That is where I got mine.


101 posted on 02/14/2011 10:26:13 AM PST by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: dickmc
The Weekly Standard had an article awhile back about this....

I was screaming out loud by the end of it..

102 posted on 02/14/2011 10:32:58 AM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: dickmc

I need to post all of my thoughts in one post (this is third) but your remark about a clean dishwasher reminded me. My dishwasher was starting to leak underneath. I found the source and was mulling over whether or not to replace it myself, call a repairman or get a new dishwasher.

ANECDOTAL ONLY: It stopped leaking when I started adding the TSP. My appliance-repair-for-dummies-brain tells me maybe the water discharge tubing is rinsing cleaner as well. May or may not be true, but no more leaks.


103 posted on 02/14/2011 10:33:04 AM PST by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: urtax$@work
So far, so good : No discoloration of flatware, and at least there aren't any food particles adhering to them, either. It's mainly the lack of spots on glasses, mugs, and dishes that I've noticed, though.

I believe I will try the STPP, as it DOES sound a bit safer.

104 posted on 02/14/2011 10:42:46 AM PST by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital! This has been a spelling PSA. PS Secede not succeed)
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To: Palladin
I noticed an immediate drop in the staying power of Yves Rocher when they went to all-natural ingredients , citing the environment, back in 1999/2000. Then I noticed that other fragrance lines seemed way weaker, when I tried new products introduced in the latter part of the last decade. The two newest Avon/MARK fragrances are completely vanished in less than one minute-they are weaker than any "body spray" I've ever encountered. And other MARK products were of almost 1980s strength (a not unmixed blessing! :-D)

I am just speculating that an attempt to please moslem customers/be completely lazy is what's really behind it, though . I noticed that a non alcohol version of a Jovan fragrance with which I was quite familiar smelled different, ie worse, and was way weaker than the standard edition. This makes me wonder if maybe other companies are removing the alcohol from fragrances , and pretending it's an environmental decision when it's really to make it easier for them, by creating all fragrances to accord with moslem halal standards, rather than making separate bottles for different world regions. It wouldn't surprise me if that's the case, as some restaurants (UK and USA) have been quietly switching to halal meats everywhere, instead of just in locations in mostly moslem neighborhoods. Easier and cheaper for them.

105 posted on 02/14/2011 10:51:00 AM PST by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital! This has been a spelling PSA. PS Secede not succeed)
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To: lacrew
PS - don’t tell the enviro-idiots about phosphorous in our fertilizer.

They already know about it.....

Chicken manure is loaded with phosphorous...Hummmmmm, maybe I should add chicken crap to my dish soap?????

LOL

106 posted on 02/14/2011 10:51:35 AM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: SatinDoll

Red Dawn...prolly work better!! : )


107 posted on 02/14/2011 10:55:01 AM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: stilloftyhenight
CLR substitute

Use with caution, but Muratic Acid (from hardware stores) will do the job. It is extremely dangerous so don't spill it on something you don't intend to. And don't mix it with other chemicals. It will destroy the lime....

108 posted on 02/14/2011 11:46:53 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: GoldwaterChick

I had stopped wearing any cologne for a while,for no particular reason.

I received a gift certificate last fall and bought my old favorite L’Air du Temps,which I had worn for about 15 years.

I spent about $70.00 on this purchase and what a waste of money. Once,to test my sanity,I sprained quite a bit on my wrist. Five minutes later——nothing,no scent all.

That’s it for me.


109 posted on 02/14/2011 12:29:27 PM PST by Mears
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To: Mears; GoldwaterChick; Palladin
I know the thought of buying other people's used cosmetics online sounds disgusting to a lot of people , but I've been buying vintage and/or no longer manufactured fragrances online for years. To date, I've had no mishaps (bottles broken in transit, fragrances that have "turned" in the bottle or don't smell as I remembered, suggesting the possibility of fraudulent sellers decanting cheap stuff into collectible empty bottles, etc.)

I've bought from etsy, google shopping, bonanzle, and ebay. A quick search on ebay pulls up 755 results for L'air du temps.(I pulled up over 3000 results with google shopping.) Some state it's the vintage version in the auction title. It looks as if that fragrance's bottle has been changed through the years, so a shopper could tell from the jpegs on each auction roughly what time frame it's from (eg, a 1980s or 1990s, or a new bottle).

Anyhow, that's just a possibility, and if any of you try this route, I hope you have as much success as I've had through the last 12 years of online shopping for second hand fragrances.

110 posted on 02/14/2011 12:56:43 PM PST by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital! This has been a spelling PSA. PS Secede not succeed)
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To: kaylar

Thank you so much for that information-—I’ll give it a shot.

L’Air du Temps was the best ever.

These changes are sad.


111 posted on 02/14/2011 1:00:53 PM PST by Mears
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To: stilloftyhenight

If you find a CLR substitute let me know - thanks.


112 posted on 02/14/2011 1:02:14 PM PST by GOPJ (http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php - World Disaster Map)
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To: kaylar

That’s a great idea!

I wonder if I can find an old bottle of Sortilege somewhere.


113 posted on 02/14/2011 1:30:11 PM PST by Palladin (Obama, go back to Hawaii! Better yet, go back to Kenya!!)
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To: kaylar

A very interesting post. They can produce the perfumes more cheaply, while charging us more for them.

I think I’ll try my luck on E-Bay with some vintage fragrances.


114 posted on 02/14/2011 1:43:14 PM PST by Palladin (Obama, go back to Hawaii! Better yet, go back to Kenya!!)
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To: Palladin
I found 41 on ebay alone: Looks like there's the original, vintage fragrance from Le Galion, and it looks like there's a recreated version from the House of Long Lost perfumes, as well as from Vermont country store.

Happy hunting!

115 posted on 02/14/2011 2:04:01 PM PST by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital! This has been a spelling PSA. PS Secede not succeed)
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To: Mears

I never tried it, but I thought it had the most interesting bottle-LOVE the little doves!


116 posted on 02/14/2011 2:07:06 PM PST by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital! This has been a spelling PSA. PS Secede not succeed)
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To: Mears

That happened to me years ago. I wrote to the company and they sent me another bottle to replace it. No doubt you’ve thrown yours out. I really loved that fragrance. A friend of mine in Ohio—who introduced me to it—said she isn’t having any problems with it, so I need to investigate a bit further.


117 posted on 02/14/2011 2:20:20 PM PST by GoldwaterChick
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To: dickmc

I’m joining the chorus of people who used TSP to solve their dishwasher problems. Got it in a NJ Home Depot last week. Now I add a teaspoon to each load and it’s all sparkling.


118 posted on 02/14/2011 2:21:44 PM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: kaylar

Hadn’t heard about vintage perfume before this thread. I will definitely check it out. Thank you!


119 posted on 02/14/2011 2:21:47 PM PST by GoldwaterChick
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To: GoldwaterChick

I still have the bottle,but the box with pertinent info is long gone.

C’est la vie.


120 posted on 02/14/2011 2:37:22 PM PST by Mears
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To: kalee

Violas were made for people who couldn’t find minions to carry their cello.

Basses are best for firewood...they burn even longer.


121 posted on 02/14/2011 2:47:37 PM PST by Cailleach
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To: kalee

Anyway...can you get TSP down there? I’d LOVE to have clean dishes again...I’d been confused as all get out for about a month as to why my dishwasher was suddenly not working (I thought I was going to get to claim it was broken to the hubby and get a new one...thanks for ending that sweet dream for me).


122 posted on 02/14/2011 2:57:55 PM PST by Cailleach
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To: ReverendJames

With our iron and sulfur problem, the only thing (so far) I’ve found to clean the toilets with is a product called “The Works” toilet bowl cleaner. I try to clean with natural stuff as much as possible, but none of the natural things I’ve found will get the iron stains out of the toilet bowls. - I’ve found that putting a good bit of 3% hydrogen peroxide in some water in my glass coffee pot and letting it set for a couple of hours or so will clean it better than anything. I may have to use a gentle scrubber sponge on it also, but it works better than the stuff I’ve used on it so far. Not a big problem really, but it does get sort of off-putting when it gets really built up. - We’ve lived with this water for almost 25 yrs., so I got used to my white clothes being sort of a cream color after a few washes. Out well is deep, but we can’t escape the sulfur. - I envy you your great water! Be thankful; I know you are!!


123 posted on 02/14/2011 2:58:10 PM PST by Twinkie (Two wrongs don't make a right.)
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To: Cailleach

Yes indeedy. I am so happy to have clean dishes again!


124 posted on 02/14/2011 4:02:26 PM PST by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: Cailleach

lol you need to direct that comment to the person who originated the viola cello discussion.


125 posted on 02/14/2011 4:04:15 PM PST by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: Twinkie

I don’t know where you live but here in the Philly suburbs we can buy The Works for $1 at the local $ store!


126 posted on 02/14/2011 8:42:56 PM PST by GoldwaterChick
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To: GoldwaterChick; Mears; Palladin
If you all do try buying old(er), vintage fragrances online, feel free to drop me a freepmail as to how it worked out-I'll admit, I am curious!
127 posted on 02/15/2011 7:38:51 AM PST by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital! This has been a spelling PSA. PS Secede not succeed)
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To: kaylar; Mears; Palladin

Out of curiosity I checked e-Bay. First L’air I checked was $269.98! It was good for a laugh! I’ll keep checking!

There’s something sad in the purposeful destruction of a beautiful fragrance. Sort of like a rose that has been cultivated for its physical beauty but lacks that exquisite fragrance.


128 posted on 02/15/2011 11:17:14 AM PST by GoldwaterChick
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To: kaylar; Mears; Palladin

Out of curiosity I checked e-Bay. First L’air I checked was $269.98! It was good for a laugh! I’ll keep checking!

There’s something sad in the purposeful destruction of a beautiful fragrance. Sort of like a rose that has been cultivated for its physical beauty but lacks that exquisite fragrance.


129 posted on 02/15/2011 11:17:22 AM PST by GoldwaterChick
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To: GoldwaterChick

Thanks,GC.

Yep,the $269.98 price is a bit of a stretch.

I first became aware of L’Air in the seventies. I was a part time supervisor for a market research firm and one of the employees was a very bright “hippie” grad student. All of her clothes were straight from Good Will stores,peace symbols and ripped,patched jeans completed the picture-——but she always smelled heavenly.

I asked her what her scent was,it was L’Air and that was it for me. When I started wearing it people would query me about the wonderful scent I was wearing.

How sad to see that gone.


130 posted on 02/15/2011 12:13:05 PM PST by Mears
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To: GoldwaterChick

Agree!


131 posted on 02/15/2011 12:53:22 PM PST by Palladin (Obama, go back to Hawaii! Better yet, go back to Kenya!!)
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To: Mears

I know what you mean about that heavenly scent! I discovered it when a co-worker, who was a beautiful, elegant woman, always exquisitely groomed, chestnut hair flawlessly upswept, told me the name of her fragrance. She had her hair done once a week and her hairdresser said she was the only customer who came in looking exactly as she did when she left the week before! Unlike me, I might add!:) A very casual hairdo with a mind of its own. (Sort of like me!!!) :) :) :)

Isn’t it funny our “role models” were the exact opposite!!!


132 posted on 02/15/2011 1:36:27 PM PST by GoldwaterChick
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To: GoldwaterChick

We live in Tennessee, and have lots of $ Stores, Dollar General Mkts., and other discount stores. The “Works” products are cheap here, too. They’re just probably caustic, and I try to go as natural as possible because my allergy and breathing situations aren’t all that great. I mostly just mix half 3% hydrogen peroxide with half distilled water in a spray bottle to clean my counters and surfaces in the bathrooms ‘cause it’s easier on my breathing. The natural spray cleaners run about $2.50 a bottle, and I can mix this hyd. per. mixture up for about 55 cents a bottle. It just isn’t quite strong enough to clean the toilet bowls. (My house is not a candidate for “House Beautiful”, but we get by without having the Health Dept. come out and condemn us.)


133 posted on 02/15/2011 2:49:48 PM PST by Twinkie (Two wrongs don't make a right.)
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To: GoldwaterChick

We live in Tennessee, and have lots of $ Stores, Dollar General Mkts., and other discount stores. The “Works” products are cheap here, too. They’re just probably caustic, and I try to go as natural as possible because my allergy and breathing situations aren’t all that great. I mostly just mix half 3% hydrogen peroxide with half distilled water in a spray bottle to clean my counters and surfaces in the bathrooms ‘cause it’s easier on my breathing. The natural spray cleaners run about $2.50 a bottle, and I can mix this hyd. per. mixture up for about 55 cents a bottle. It just isn’t quite strong enough to clean the toilet bowls. (My house is not a candidate for “House Beautiful”, but we get by without having the Health Dept. come out and condemn us.)


134 posted on 02/15/2011 2:52:43 PM PST by Twinkie (Two wrongs don't make a right.)
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To: dickmc
I've been going crazy thinking something was wrong with my dishwasher when it finally dawned on me that they had taken the phosphates out of the dish detergent.

No matter how long I would run that dishwasher, everything was coming out gray and dirty. I am going to get some TSP.

135 posted on 02/19/2011 4:17:29 PM PST by Vicki (Washington State where anyone can vote .... illegals, non-residents, dead people, dogs, felons)
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To: Vicki

I bought a 4.5 lb box of TSP and a 10 lb bag of STPP.

I tried using about a teaspoon of TSP in the laundry w/ regular detergent seems about right - have suds again and good stain removal.

The STTP arrived the other day, using about a tablespoon w/ detergent in the dishwasher as I write. Will report results.

Hopefully will not get into any trouble with the numerous regulatory and criminal enforcement agencies. (Be right back, somebody is pounding at the front doo


136 posted on 02/20/2011 8:34:27 AM PST by Freedom4US
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To: Freedom4US

Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.


137 posted on 02/21/2011 8:51:43 PM PST by Vicki (Washington State where anyone can vote .... illegals, non-residents, dead people, dogs, felons)
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To: dickmc

Pssst! I recently bought a bunch of Cascade WITH PHOSPHATES from Restockit.com!!

Pass it on...


138 posted on 02/21/2011 9:27:37 PM PST by alley cat
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To: Vicki

No problem, I was just glad to find this article. The STTP stuff did the trick in the dishwasher. Everything had this white haze on it, couldn’t figure it out. Thought we needed a new dishwasher.

The first wash with this stuff really cleared up the glasswear. Wonder how many folks are spending money on dishwashers, when the problem is the detergent?


139 posted on 02/21/2011 9:29:24 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: dickmc

Just wanted to thank you for the info on adding phosphate to the dishwasher. I experimented and am adding 2 teaspoons per wash. Works like a charm.


140 posted on 03/16/2011 8:16:24 PM PDT by Montanabound
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To: Montanabound

I had bought a new dishwasher and my wife blamed me for buying a piece of junk because it didn’t clean any better than the old one. Then I discovered what happened to Cascade and other dishwasher detergents. I couldn’t find any dishwasher stuff with phosphates except a rinse that had a little.

I found TSP at Lowe’s (next to the fake TSP), not in the cleaning section, but over with the turpentine, etc.

I added some to the dishwasher and started it up.

Let’s see what happens.


141 posted on 04/08/2011 3:09:07 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Budget sins can be fixed. Amnesty is irreversible.)
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To: nascarnation

bump


142 posted on 04/08/2011 3:16:19 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Totalitarian Fascism is here, Now.)
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To: Chickensoup

thank you!

sad that we have to jump thru hoops to get back to the performance we used to have

EPA kills jobs and prosperity: time to de-fund!


143 posted on 04/08/2011 4:03:49 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: nascarnation; Chickensoup; Montanabound; dickmc; Freedom4US; Vicki; GoldwaterChick; kalee; ...

I got TSP. I put one Cascade (no phosphorus of course) in one little cavity in the door and filled the other one (smaller) with TSP.

The dishes came out OK, but it wasn’t a heavy load. I looked closer and saw that the smaller cavity was labeled “pre-rinse.”

But even if I put TSP in the other cavity, doesn’t it dissolve right away and rinse away very quickly? I would like it to be released gradually, like the commercial detergent.

The first reason I want it TSP to be there throughout the wash is that I think it will make the dishes cleaner.

The second is that I have read that since cascade removed phosphates, some of the vital parts of dishwashers are going to hell. For example, there are reports of water pumps getting clogged.

I guess the best bet would be a controlled release detergent with phosphates, but the eco-nazis have gotten to the federal govt. of course, and many state govts., and so all the corporations play ball.


144 posted on 04/09/2011 3:24:50 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Budget sins can be fixed. Amnesty is irreversible.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

Quarter teaspoon of TSP right in the reservoir with the liquid detergent seems to work just right for us.


145 posted on 04/09/2011 3:30:28 PM PDT by ErnBatavia (It's not the Obama Administration....it's the "Obama Regime".)
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To: nnn0jeh

ping


146 posted on 04/09/2011 4:16:39 PM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

I mix my TSP with the detergent with a spoon. I have kept experimenting, and I think they come out better when I used powdered detergent than liquid.

I still can’t believe we have to do this.


147 posted on 04/09/2011 4:23:20 PM PDT by Montanabound
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To: nascarnation

bttt


148 posted on 04/09/2011 4:25:30 PM PDT by ConservativeMan55
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To: Montanabound
I mix my TSP with the detergent with a spoon. I have kept experimenting, and I think they come out better when I used powdered detergent than liquid.

But they make the powdered detergent in such a way that it is released over time, while TSP dissolves and rinses away a lot faster. At least that's the way I think it works.

Didn't the "old" Cascade release gradually? Otherwise it would rinse away and your dishwasher would be rinsing with only water for the rest of the cycle.

149 posted on 04/09/2011 8:09:04 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Budget sins can be fixed. Amnesty is irreversible.)
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To: catnipman

Thanks for the info on STPP. I checked your Ebay source and, for those interested, they also sell it in 1 lb. containers, prob more “per pound” but easier on the wallet to try out. I just bought a box; we are also disgusted with the poor performance of our dishwasher — my husband has taken it apart, replaced parts, etc. in our effort to discover what the problem is. Hopefully this will be the “fix”! Anxious to try it in the clothes washer, too.


150 posted on 04/13/2011 7:37:15 AM PDT by workerbee (We're not scared, Maobama -- we're pissed off!)
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