JAPAN WARNED WE CAN’T TOLERATE ANY NEW ATTACKS IN THE ORIENT (11/29/41)

Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 11/29/41 | Frank L. Kluckhohn, Otto D. Tolischus, H. Ford Wilkins, Royal Arch Gunnison, Ray Brock, more

[Homer_J_Simpson]

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[Homer_J_Simpson]

Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime” Or view Homer’s posting history .)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile. Also visit our general discussion thread

[Homer_J_Simpson]

Selections from West Point Atlas for the Second World War
Advance on Moscow – Operations, 26 August-5 December 1941
North Africa, Auchinleck’s Offensive, 18 November-31 December 1941
The Mediterranean Basin
The Far East and the Pacific, 1941 – Major Japanese War Objectives and Planned Opening Attacks

[Homer_J_Simpson]

Billboard Top Ten for the Week of November 29, 1941

#1 - “Chattanooga Choo Choo” - Glenn Miller, with Tex Beneke and the Modernaires
#2 - “Piano Concerto in B Flat” (“Tonight we Love”) - Freddy Martin, with Jack Fina
#3 - “Elmer’s Tune,” Glenn Miller, with Ray Eberly and the Modernaires
#4 – “This Love of Mine” - Tommy Dorsey, with Frank Sinatra
#5 - “Tonight We Love” – Tony Martin
#6 – “I Don’t Want to Set the World on Fire” - The Ink Spots
#7 - “I Don’t Want to Set the World On Fire”” - Horace Heidt, with Larry Cotton and Donna & Her Don Juans
#8 – “Elmer’s Tune” – Dick Jurgens
#9 - “I Don’t Want to Set the World On Fire” – Tommy Tucker, with Amy Arnell and Voices 3
#10 - “Blues in the Night,” Artie Shaw, with Hot Lips Page

[Homer_J_Simpson]

War Seen Closer – 2
U.S. ‘Ultimatum’ is Seen by Japan – 2-3
Quezon Accuses U.S. on Defenses – 3
Japanese Prepare to Close 5 Banks – 3
Stern Chiang Note to Us Reported Against Letdown in Aid to China – 4
30,000 Japanese Move Southward – 4
Thailand Will Fight Against an Invader, Say Sheean and Bangkok Gem Mine Owner – 5
Vichy Building 4 Clippers to Match U.S. on Atlantic – 5
Egyptian Ship Here after 83-Day Trip – 5
The International Situation – 5
On the Asiatic Front: Japanese Troops in Action (photos) – 6
Desert Armies Cut – 7-8
Tobruk Epic Rings Loudest at Finish – 8
Times Reporter Captive in Libya * – 9
Italians’ Report Less Optimistic – 10
Italy Claims Command over Germans in Libya – 10
Nazis Reported Speeding Forces to Africa; Units Sent from East Front, Austria, France – 10
Russian Attacks Slow Nazi Drives – 11-12
Lag in Nazi Push is Seen in Berlin (by George Axelsson) – 12
Hull Views Finns as Hitler Allies – 12-13
400,000 Chileans at Aguirre Funeral – 13
Italians Surrender Gondar, Last East African Outpost (by Herbert L. Matthews) – 13-14
War Games Halt in the Carolinas (by Hanson W. Baldwin) – 15-16
Republicans Veer to Willkie on War – 16
Nazis and Italians Separate in Prisons – 16
British Warships Fight Germans Close to Dover – 16
The Texts of the Day’s War Communiques – 17-18
Naples Hard Hit in Night Attack (by Robert P. Post) – 18

* We have been reading stories by Harold Denny since March 1938, when he was in Moscow. Since then he has written from the front lines during the Winter War, the invasion of France, and recently from North Africa. I formed a mental image of an ambitious young journalist taking the tough assignments to build a reputation and have some excitement. The bio in this article proves that image to be inaccurate. He is really a veteran reporter who has been taking the tough assignments since 1925. I hope he makes out all right during his stay with the Afrika Korps. I also hope he gets exchanged or released in the next week or so. After that his situation could get sticky.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1941/nov41/f29nov41.htm

German tanks cross Moscow-Volga canal
Saturday, November 29, 1941 www.onwar.com

On the Eastern Front... Panzer forces commanded by General Reinhardt reach the Moscow-Volga canal and crosses it in the Dmitrov area. However, the Germans are encountering stiff Soviet resistance.

From Japan... The Japanese government liaison conference decides that the final terms from the United States are unacceptable and that Japan must go to war.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.etherington/month/thismonth/29.htm

November 29th, 1941

UNITED KINGDOM: Destroyer HMS Quilliam launched. (Dave Shirlaw)

GERMANY:
U-735, U-736 laid down.

U-462 launched.

U-255, U-379 commissioned. (Dave Shirlaw)

U.S.S.R.: General Reinhardt’s forces reach the Moscow-Volga Canal and cross into the Dmitrov area. The fierce Soviet resistance is lead by fresh Soviet Siberian units.

MEDITERRANEAN SEA: Two cruisers and destroyers reach MALTA and are added to the British forces there.

JAPAN: A liaison conference among the Service Chiefs and Cabinet of the Japanese Government decides that the final proposal from the US is unacceptable. Their alternative is war. Their decision is prepared for an Imperial Conference, with the Emperor, which is scheduled for December.

Premier Tojo said American and British exploitation of Asiatic peoples must be purged with vengeance. (Dave Shirlaw)

U.S.A.: Chattanooga Choo Choo by Glenn Miller and his Orchestra with vocals by Tex Beneke and The Four Modernaires reaches Number 1 on the Billboard Pop Singles chart in the U.S. This song, which debuted on the charts on 13 September 1941, was charted for 23 weeks, was Number 1 for 9 weeks and was ranked Number 2 for the year 1941. (Jack McKillop)

Destroyer USS Ammen laid down.

Destroyer USS Woodworth launched. (Dave Shirlaw)

ATLANTIC OCEAN: U-43 sank SS Thornliebank in Convoy OS-12. (Dave Shirlaw)

[Cheburashka]

The First Air Fleet sailed November 26-27 from the Kuril Islands bound for the Hawaiian Islands. Of course no one outside the Japanese Navy and the Japanese government knew this at the time.

In effect the War in the Pacific has already started.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Thanks Homer...

I have a BAD feeling that things aren’t going to go well in the pacific. :-(

Easy to see now, why so many people believe Roosevelt KNEW what was coming..... pretty much, everyone did. Maybe not where, exactly... but, it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be SUCH a “surprise”.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

I just read the short filler on page 3 about Soviet ambassador Maxim Litvinoff traveling on the Pan Am clipper to his new post in Washington. He is in Singapore today. Tomorrow it is on to Manila. The flight will shortly stop at Wake Island. No doubt it will also go through Hawaii. Eerie.

[CougarGA7]

• U. S. REJECTS COMPROMISE IN FAR EAST - WASHINGTON INSISTS ON MAINTENANCE OF STATUS QUO, WITHDRAWAL FROM CHINA BY JAPAN ARMY - Hawaiian newspaper headline

• "We have been receiving reports from you on ship movements, but in the future will you also report even when there are no movements" - Tokyo in a message to Honolulu transmitted in the J-19 code, translated December 5th.

• Colonel Bicknell briefs General Short that from the analysis of the ABCD Bloc intelligence that if Japan attacked one member of the Bloc then an attack should be expected on the other members as well.

• "The enemy is exhausted. But if we do not now liquidate the dangerous enemy penetrations, the Germans will be able to reinforce their forces in the Moscow region with large reserves at the expense of their northern and southern groups of forces, and then a serious situation can result. I.V. Stalin says that he agrees with the General Staff." - Zhukov in a request to the Stavka to authorize a counteroffensive

[untenured]

Two interesting items today:

1. As others have noted, that war with Japan will come soon seems almost obvious, even to contemporary Americans. The surprise seems only tactical, with people expecting Japan to make an aggressive move toward Thailand and the East Indies oil rather than preemptively taking out the American fleet. One wonders how much of the rage after December 7 stemmed from fury at being caught with our pants down, rather than at going to war itself.

2. Interesting little article about the French planning to build airplanes to compete with American flights across the Atlantic. Even in 1941, with all the other matters one would suppose they would have had on their mind, the French seem preoccupied with using what we would now call industrial policy to stick it to the Anglo-Saxon commercial machine.

[cartoonistx]

I saw where Wendell Wilke was going to defend a avowed Communist in immigration court against deportation. Even then Republicans were a confused lot!

[cartoonistx]

I saw where Wendell Wilke was going to defend a avowed Communist in immigration court against deportation. Even then Republicans were a confused lot!

[Enchante]

re: “what was coming”

I don’t think FDR and US military leaders were in any doubts that Japan was likely to continue making military moves in the “Far East” — but I sense that they were operating under a relative delusion that Japan would not “dare” to attack the US directly.

Just the fact that the US could be taking such a bold posture and making threats to Japan while doing relatively little to protect the fleet etc. makes me think that FDR believed (1) war with Japan was coming, but (2) it would remain very far from US shores and not even as close as Hawaii (which was not a state but of course had Pearl Harbor etc.).

The “conspiracy” views have FDR wanting to LOSE the fleet, which makes no sense at all in terms of FDR’s outlook.

I think it’s obvious he wanted to stop Japan’s aggressive expansion, issued warnings and threats which the USA was not really in a position to enforce militarily, but did not think Japan would “dare” to attack us at Pearl Harbor, etc. US leaders did know war with Japan was increasingly likely but thought(so naively) we would still have some forewarning and would be sending the fleet across the wide Pacific for a great confrontation.

[BroJoeK]

Enchante: "The “conspiracy” views have FDR wanting to LOSE the fleet, which makes no sense at all in terms of FDR’s outlook."

No "conspiracy theory" claims FDR expected, much less wanted to "LOSE the fleet".
But FDR's own words say that the loss of a ship or two was acceptable, if that was the result of a clear "first overt act" from Japan -- just such an act as was necessary to produce a Congressional declaration of war.

There is no doubt that Roosevelt was unwilling to lead a divided America into the kind of all-out war effort which would be necessary to win it.
The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor produced exactly the unity FDR needed.

And in the end, as it turned out, only two major ships were permanently lost at Pearl.
The rest were patched, repaired and put back into action relatively quickly.

Did FDR know the attack on Pearl Harbor was coming?
No undisputed evidence proves he did.
But much suggests, to me at least, that it would be most surprising if he didn't at least suspect.

[SomeCallMeTim]

And in the end, as it turned out, only two major ships were permanently lost at Pearl.

Well... that, and a couple thousand MEN. But, I guess... leaders looked at casualties a little differently back then.

Interesting perspectives. I've never found the time to reall research what was known, or not known. But, I've always found it hard to believe any American President would sit there and do nothing KNOWING an attack was coming.

[SomeCallMeTim]

And in the end, as it turned out, only two major ships were permanently lost at Pearl.

Well... that, and a couple thousand MEN. But, I guess... leaders looked at casualties a little differently back then.

Interesting perspectives. I've never found the time to reall research what was known, or not known. But, I've always found it hard to believe any American President would sit there and do nothing KNOWING an attack was coming.

[BroJoeK]

SomeCallMeTim: "I've never found the time to reall research what was known, or not known.
But, I've always found it hard to believe any American President would sit there and do nothing KNOWING an attack was coming."

Of course, the President did send "war warnings" to commanders throughout the Pacific saying a Japanese attack was likely at any time, especially in South Asia and the Philippines.
So there's no doubt Washington did expect an attack somewhere.
And as many have pointed out here, even the direct mention of the Philippines in those war-warnings did not make General MacArthur any better prepared than Kimmel and Short in Hawaii.
So something else was amiss...

On item often mentioned is that these same "war-warnings" told commanders that while they should be prepared and alert, the United States also wanted Japan to commit the first overt act.
Kimmel and Short both claimed later that had they been advised of everything Washington knew, they could have figured out the Japanese attack was coming.

So here is the bottom line: Washington did warn its commanders of possible Japanese attacks, but the warnings were vague and imprecise.
They also included instructions that Washington wanted Japan to commit the first act.
The commanders -- Kimmel and Short -- claimed that had the warnings been more explicit, they would have been better prepared.

But in the end, some military experts today say the destruction and loss of life would have been worse had an alerted Kimmel sent his ships out to meet the incoming Japanese, and enemy propaganda would have claimed the US started it -- propaganda many in the US would be eager to believe.

So the results from Roosevelt's perspective could hardly have turned out better -- relatively few lives and ships lost, but the country completely united in the greatest war effort in human history.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

But in the end, some military experts today say the destruction and loss of life would have been worse had an alerted Kimmel sent his ships out to meet the incoming Japanese

A while back I got Gordon Prange’s book on Midway, “Miracle at Midway,” with the idea of gleaning juicy excerpts to post as we move into 1942. The book was put together by a couple of Prange’s associates and published after his death, by the way.

Anyhow, one of those military experts was named Chester Nimitz. I was astonished to read that he believed that the surprise attack as it happened was better than the alternative of the U.S. fleet getting a couple days advance warning and heading out to meet the IJN. That gave me a new outlook on our ongoing discussion-slash-flame war. It makes me think that what Roosevelt knew and when he knew it is not particularly important in the greater scheme things. This country was going to get into the war and we were going to begin by getting our collective ass kicked. The question was just how bad it would be. According to Admiral Nimitz it could have been worse.

[PAR35]

The “conspiracy” views have FDR wanting to LOSE the fleet, which makes no sense at all in terms of FDR’s outlook.

No, he didn't learn the lesson of Taranto. Like the former Navy guy that he was, he thought the Battleships would survive with little damage. The Carriers were sent away, and the small ships were expendable. I believe that he was surprised by the level of material damage, but not by the attack itself. And casualties weren't that heavy - about 2400 dead, almost half on the Arizona, and about 13% on the Oklahoma. If he'd been right about the battleships, the total would have been well under 1000 dead. http://www.pearlharbor.org/history/casualties/pearl-harbor-casualties/