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Our Smart Meter Battle Has Started
Email | 6 July 2012 | Unknown Patriot

Posted on 07/07/2012 1:12:52 PM PDT by Windflier

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To: Nervous Tick
There’s NO WAY to selectively enable/disable/control individual power draws.

Yeah, that's the way I see it. How can the meter differentiate between the circuits in the fuse box?

I recently got a letter from my provider (Georgia Power) offering 20¢/kWh during peak hours, and 5¢/kWh during other times. 'Peak hours' are defined as 2-7 pm, M-F. I am seriously considering doing it. Any advice would be appreciated.

61 posted on 07/07/2012 3:35:58 PM PDT by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: cripplecreek
Lately I’ve been hearing local chatter suggesting that my electric company has switched from 60Hz to 40Hz and that its causing problems.

The chance that your local utility is delivering power at other than 60Hz is extremely small, and the chance that they would do so intentionally for more than an instant in some emergency situation is effectively zero. The entire US electric grid is designed to run at 60Hz, and every source on the grid has to run at the same frequency.

You could prove it to yourself by plugging in one of those old alarm clocks from the 70's that have a synchronous motor in them. If the clock runs 1/3 slower you'll know that your AC frequency is at 40Hz.

Lots of motors and devices will not function properly with a 40Hz AC source, you'd see evidence of such a frequency shift immediately, and it would be much more dramatic than dimmer lights (which would not be likely if all that happened was a frequency shift).

Now, if your local power supply is really local, like a wind generator up on the hill, or an old diesel generator out behind the barn, you might want to check its output frequency, voltage, etc. Using a clock with an AC motor will test the frequency, a voltmeter (used safely!) will test the voltage level. Checking AC waveform shape, power factor, etc. takes more sophisticated equipment.

If you have unreliable power the usual cause is poor voltage regulation or transients. Various test equipment can log the voltage levels and record brown outs, etc. Google "power line quality monitor", something like an acscout will record power line disturbances.

62 posted on 07/07/2012 3:38:30 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
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To: cripplecreek
Dim lights? That sounds more like a low voltage issue in your neighborhood. That would likely be caused by the local grid being overtaxed and upgrades needed. The further you are from the sub station unless they use step up transformers in their system along the primary line route {lines on the street} the lower your voltage can be. Distance alone cause voltage drop. If your area underwent a build up in the past couple of decades as in more houses, businesses, etc then this is the most likely problem.

As for cycles? Most electrical items built in the past 30 years or so can operate at 50-60 cycles {HZ} as Europe is 50 HZ best I recall and applicances and other items are made to be sold and used world wide. 40 HZ would burn things up fast.

63 posted on 07/07/2012 3:43:36 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Myrddin; BigBobber

>> They can adjust your electric rate on a minute by minute basis if they chose to do so.
>> They are already comparing customer’s energy use with their neighbors to try and shame them into using less. There will soon be financial penalties for using too much power or just using it at the wrong time of day.

Old technology can do *that*. Big deal.

Again: if it’s a problem for you, get *yourself* off the grid. The technology esists to do that.

If you are unwilling or unable to take on your own electric generation — but you still DEMAND!!! that it be delivered YOUR WAY — maybe you should quit your job, join the liberal 99%, and Occupy The Electric Company.

...or is electricity something you feel yourself entitled to, like health care and a job? I don’t see it in *my* copy of the constitution, but maybe yours is different.


64 posted on 07/07/2012 3:43:36 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Hoodat

“I recently got a letter from my provider (Georgia Power) offering 20¢/kWh during peak hours, and 5¢/kWh during other times. ‘Peak hours’ are defined as 2-7 pm, M-F. I am seriously considering doing it. Any advice would be appreciated.”

Not a bad deal, in my opinion. Just be sure you can make it through those 5 hours without Air Conditioning. If there’s any doubt, stay clear. Practice this summer a bit. Houses heat up quick in the summer - but I’ve made it through multiple days without AC in Houston, in July (just for fun - at some points, it was 89F indoors, and I wasn’t wearing much - needless to say, I was alone at those times)...so it’s doable. But if the wife or junior is going to throw a fit, then FORGET IT, even though 5 cents is dirt-cheap for power.

And be sure to read the DETAILS in the plan.


65 posted on 07/07/2012 3:46:20 PM PDT by BobL
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To: BobL

The 15 minute reporting is also nothing to play down, being that resolution before the ‘Smart Meters’ was 30 days, or roughly 3000 times as long. What 15 minutes means is that anyone that can access your meter’s data will likley know the following:
a) When people go to bed at night
b) When people wake up in the morning
c) When people go to work in the morning
d) When people come home from work in the evening
e) When people leave to go on vacation
f) When people return from vacation


That depends. If you use electric heat, or during air conditioning months, the high draw appliances will dwarf a typical electric light. If you have gone to mostly florescent and LED, it would be very difficult to tell when the bedroom lights went off. Other high draw appliances (e.g. dehumidifier, refrigerator, electric hair driers, electric clothes dryers and stoves, toaster ovens, microwave ovens, coffee makers, some power tools, would be impossible to separate from each other in a house with standard wiring, and hardly worth the trouble. A typical light bulb draws 60 watts, an equivalent flourescent 20 and an LED less than that. The dehumidifier in the basement and the refrigerator will draw 1500. That hydroponics operation will draw more still.

On a scale of 1 to 10 for concern, I give this a 2, and that only because of what they MIGHT build off of from this in the future. I think the free market idea would work. $5 discount for those who want the smart meter so that they don't have to send a man to check your meter every month. I gladly pay $2 a quarter for a paper bill from my garbage hauler because I want a tangible bill from the source. We can do the same with electric.

66 posted on 07/07/2012 3:59:45 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("Stronger. You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid! "--Eros, Plan 9 From Outer Space)
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To: Windflier
Are these true Smart Meters or are they digital read out meters with LIMITED data transmit/recieve capabilities? What does the utility say they do in other words?

I have a digital meter that can be communicated with by my utility. They are installed for reasons most persons would not even think about. They are thinking as a utility. They have tens of thousands of customers and lets say a storm hits. They can tell real fast what streets, what homes, what businesses including hospitals nursing homes, etc do and do not have power.

This is a manpower saving system to get your lights back on ASAP. Power companies in emergency mode work like this. They take a large area that out. The chances are it can be a breaker at their substation or on their line. This tells them where to start rather than driving around and wasting time having to look. They get the maximum on as quickly as possible then focus on more local and isolated outages.

The advantage? A tree might fall in your driveway while you are on vacation and knock out your power. You come home a week or two later to find you have no power. This happens a lot in rural areas. This was the system which doesn't get a ping from the meter {much like how your cell phone works} can tell the utility communication is lost.

My power was out last year. I live in a very rural area on a dead end road. My neighbors all 4 houses were gone so I couldn't ask if they were out also. Usually the tap fuse for the line coming up our road blows out. This time I called and the on call guy {after hours} said yea your power is out but your neighbors isn't. So the guy they sent knew to come up straight to my house and check the transformer fuse. It has disconnected itself. This saved him 30 minutes of having to follow the wires up our road.

All the meter does is pings to the system and reports once a month my total usage. On my system I'm not sure it pings the utility all the time or just when they ask like for billing or to check outages.

I can see their reasoning behind this type of system looking at it from a troubleshooting stand point.

67 posted on 07/07/2012 4:01:49 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Dr. Sivana

“That depends. If you use electric heat, or during air conditioning months, the high draw appliances will dwarf a typical electric light. If you have gone to mostly florescent and LED, it would be very difficult to tell when the bedroom lights went off. Other high draw appliances (e.g. dehumidifier, refrigerator, electric hair driers, electric clothes dryers and stoves, toaster ovens, microwave ovens, coffee makers, some power tools, would be impossible to separate from each other in a house with standard wiring, and hardly worth the trouble. A typical light bulb draws 60 watts, an equivalent flourescent 20 and an LED less than that. The dehumidifier in the basement and the refrigerator will draw 1500. That hydroponics operation will draw more still. “

You may want to look at the plots they already have on residential power usage before getting too smug. It’s MORE THAN OBVIOUS when activity is going on. And, as the meters get smarter and smarter, it only becomes that much more obvious.


68 posted on 07/07/2012 4:05:35 PM PDT by BobL
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To: BobL
Not a bad deal, in my opinion. Just be sure you can make it through those 5 hours without Air Conditioning.

What's 'Air Conditioning'?

69 posted on 07/07/2012 4:09:01 PM PDT by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: Hoodat

“What’s ‘Air Conditioning’?”

If that’s the case, it’s almost a free-bee. Just do a few small things during those peak times, like unplugging the laptop, not running the dryer (if electric) or washer (if the water heater is electric), etc.

If you have electric heat in the winter, you’ll want to crank it up before 2 PM, and then kill it for the 5 hours, which should be survivable.


70 posted on 07/07/2012 4:17:00 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Paladin2
2/3rds ?

My calculator doesn't work well on 40 cycles, either! :)

71 posted on 07/07/2012 4:19:18 PM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (I made a prank call...pretended I was a mime.)
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To: Hoodat
I recently got a letter from my provider (Georgia Power) offering 20¢/kWh during peak hours, and 5¢/kWh during other times. 'Peak hours' are defined as 2-7 pm, M-F. I am seriously considering doing it. Any advice would be appreciated.

I'm in East Tennessee and I wouldn't do it if offered due to the climate. Any savings you get not running the A/C or heat during that time will be eaten up considerably when the unit has to later remove the heat load built up in that time frame. Or in the winter if on electric heat too make up that difference as well.

If you want savings? Look at a newer more efficient A/C unit. Some of the newer ones out now operate at a fourth of the power demand of ones made 20 years ago. Another Freeper made a believer out of me on that one and I had an Electrical and HVAC background.

72 posted on 07/07/2012 4:28:38 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: BobL

It’s not just electrical usage but water, too. The article below was from 2008. Seems to me that these gateway devices located throughout neighborhoods are asking to be hacked.

“The new meters will have wireless interface units built in. Gateway devices will be located throughout a neighborhood that can receive information from the household smart meters. The gateway keeps the data until it is time to transfer it to the Utility Department’s software system where the information is analyzed by staff members.”

http://www.smartmeters.com/the-news/288-smart-meters-approved-in-texas-town.html


73 posted on 07/07/2012 4:42:16 PM PDT by bgill
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To: Nervous Tick

I won’t say, Tick.

So, let’s just agree that without proof presented, it didn’t happen, right?

I have an ax to grind about that incident, as it happened in a time when one of MY close relatives died, so it really pissed me off royally. And that’s all I am going to say about it.


74 posted on 07/07/2012 5:09:37 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: cva66snipe

Not all the new meters work the same. Some are worse than others.


75 posted on 07/07/2012 5:34:29 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: BobL

And crank the air a hard a few hours before 2 pm.


76 posted on 07/07/2012 5:35:11 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Not all the new meters work the same. Some are worse than others.

True and that's why I was asking. If they are simple pole and ping capabilities with monthly usage transmission I would not consider them a threat. I think they use the same technology still in R&D stage for Broadband over the powerlines back to a communcations unit at the substation. I think that system can be accessed from the substation or remotely even from a remote laptop for example an on call lineman or dispatcher. It saves time having to wait till the dispatcher drives in etc. The dispatcher can do the same task from his home and still communicate with the lineman. They can also drop out entire legs {not individual homes} remotely if needed.

77 posted on 07/07/2012 6:29:32 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Ronald_Magnus

Nope. It does everything. They even send an email monthly telling us that we use too much electricity and more gas than our neighbors. Last month, we used too much for just two people. They don’t know there are three in this household.


78 posted on 07/07/2012 6:52:59 PM PDT by KYGrandma (The sun shines bright on my old Kentucky home......)
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To: Nervous Tick
Solar is fairly pointless in Pocatello, Idaho. Wind is common, but not very reliable. A few spots have a good shot at geothermal. Otherwise, we keep 10 cords of wood stacked for heat/cooking. I can survive without electricity, but it will hamper water delivery as the city depends on 5 electrically pumped ground wells.
79 posted on 07/07/2012 9:19:36 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Nervous Tick

I’m afraid this isn’t only about the utility companies. It’s just like our medical system. Those who control your access to medicine, or energy, control you.

Social engineers and green lefty tyrants have wanted to control the serfs through the use of the energy system for four decades.

There is no power shortage. There is no energy crisis. There never has been one, even in Jimmy Carter’s days.

To the extent there is a shortage of power it is totally the result of politicians refusing to allow utilities to upgrade the energy system to meet demand.

Obama’s $800 billion “stimulus” could have been used to build enough combined cycle gas generation units to end the “energy crisis” in two years.

The public is being artificially starved from power by the left. If they knew the real energy story, if they knew how they’ve been duped for all these years into thinking there is crisis there would be riots in the street.

Unfortunately, the leftists spin their fairy tales and take advantage of our good will to control the debate. They know we will all do our part to save the polar bears and keep the seas from rising.

Smart Meters are yet another tool for the left to do their dirty work.

Do smart meters serve a useful purpose for the utilities? Of course. That’s why I said they are here to stay. But we need to be aware of their abuse by those who’s goal is to control and enslave use.


80 posted on 07/07/2012 9:28:12 PM PDT by BigBobber
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