Chinese manufacturing output surpassed US manufacturing output in 2010

United Nations ^ | 13 July 2012

[moonshot925]

I made this graph based on data from the United Nations.

2010 was the first year that Chinese manufacturing output surpassed US manufacturing output.

There is no data available for 2011 or 2012 yet.

[moonshot925]

You can look here at the same information from that paper.

http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/nudb/datab9.asp

http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/nudb/datab10.asp

[rurgan]

You're wrong. The liberal media creates this false reality.

There 3 kinds of lies and the worse of these lies are called statistics. First of all , you who have bought this socialist propaganda don't realize that these statistics are in dollars.

When you look at actual NUMBERs of products and whole industries you see what we all see in stores when we turn over products and in the vast number of cases it says made in china.

Ok just show me how MANY smart phones the U.S.A manufactures each year and also how MANY does China:

ditto for , clothes :

lcd TV’s:

radios:

cell phones:

shoes (Nike anyone?)

microvave ovens:

smart phones:

cell phones

lapttop computers

tablet PC

personal computers

and so on ad infinitum: all made in China and then other countries, none in U.S.A
phones

go ahead look these up and post them if you dare

I can guarantee you that if you compare the production of these and thousands of other products that U.S. production compared to China is practically close to ZERO.

[moonshot925]

Everything is in measured in dollars. What world are you living in?

Let’s say I produce a single locomotive worth $250,000 and you produce 30,000 T-shirts worth $60,000.

Who manufactured more?

You certainly produced more items, but I produced something of greater value.

China might produce more items than we do, but that has little meaning.

[BfloGuy]

. In a healthy economy, prices would come down, and 'wages' would remain stable or incrementally increase.

Is that so different from what I wrote that it's "debatable?"

ALL countries are inflating their money supply. But, and yet, companies are still choosing to offshore production. Your complaint of inflation in a global environment only works in a vacuum.

ALL countries are certainly not inflating. China was but is now suffering a massive government-caused deflation. Europe's deflation is not as massive but the money supply is dropping there, too.

Japan has maintained a stable money supply for the last decade and began inflating just a couple months ago.

All countries that are inflating are not doing so at the same rate. The U.S. has been inflating since the mid-sixties (with the exception of Volcker's brief intermission in the early eighties.)

The inflation has wreaked havoc with our economy causing the development of the so-called Rust Bowl, the off-shoring of low-profit, labor-intensive manufacturing, growth in the financial industry all out of proportion to the general economy, and it has made prices and wages relatively higher here causing the trade deficit. Oh, and let's not forget three recessions.

My complaint of inflation certainly does not work "only in a vacuum," it's been working for the last 50 years exactly as I stated it. Monetary inflation is one of the greatest evils a government can inflict on its citizens.

Interesting you're so blasé about it.

[BfloGuy]

I say NO. Stop the unbalanced theft of our companies.

I understand and admit the unfairness, but are you seriously advocating dictating to American citizens where and what they may do with their own money? That sounds pretty socialistic to me.

In the end, all of you who smirkingly refer to free "traitors" can offer nothing but more government control over the economy. More regulations, more policing, and less liberty. Yet you post frequently here as if you were a conservative.

And none of you can admit the contradiction.

[rurgan]

Those stats are pure bs. pure socialist/globalist propaganda.

If the U.S. is so productive etc as you say then prove it show the number of smart phones the U.S. manufactures, or any product more than china, be it TVs, clothes , any consumer electronic product, radios , cell phones, laptop pcs, PCS, kindles, personal computers, . come on show it show it now .

[BfloGuy]

All communist countries are my sworn enemy.

I agree completely with the embargoes on trade with North Korea and Cuba because Americans don't trade with Cubans or North Koreans -- they trade with the Communist regimes. That isn't as clear with China, though it's the best argument you've made so far.

[rurgan]

China didn't even have a middle class 20 years ago. now they all have a car. 30 years ago almost all Chineese were peasants living as they did 1000 years ago.The U.S in contrast has declined in those 30 years . coincidence ? NO. China has risen at our expense. China has stolen U.S. industries and technology and used our technology, our U.S. market, our companies to do it.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/25/news/economy/china-middle-class/index.htm
“This new middle class just emerged in the last 15 to 20 years Fifteen years ago, people didn't have cars yet. But in the last seven, eight, or nine years ... everyone has a car (in China). Some people have more than one car.”

From the above graph it is obvious China manufacturing is skyrocketing while the crap that is still in the U.S. is leveling off. But even that graph is flawed as China manufactures much more than the U.S. if not then prove it show which industries which consumer products the U.S. manufactures more than china.

Those stats these globalist put up are pure bs. pure socialist/globalist propaganda.

If the U.S. is so productive etc as you globalists say then prove it show the number of smart phones the U.S. manufactures, or any product more than china, be it TVs, clothes , any consumer electronic product, radios , cell phones, laptop pcs, PCS, kindles, personal computers, . come on show it show it now ,

These globalists are for the merging of China and the U.S. . China is a communist nation that dictates industrial policy to the U.S. ( what industries we can't have etc.)

China must be stopped now and that means tariffs and numerical limits on china imports.

[rurgan]

":China might produce more items than we do, but that has little meaning":.

Well at least you agree that China produces more items.

The dollar means squat. What matters is who has the machines, technology ,factories, know how , infrastructure to manufacture products efficiently( and china has taken that away from the U.S. stolen it). Having trillions of paper dollars means nothing. the dollar could inflate tomorrow to NOTHING. now the only thing the U.S. manufactures is printing money which has no value. The only reason the dollar has value is because China gives it that value for now so that they can steal our technology. .but we the U.S. have lost most of our technology and will lose the rest soon because we don't make squat or soon will not. Other countries will soon produce almost everything we use. And you think we can survive by just printing more money? The federal government debt is exploding. do you know what your share of that is? and that is just federal debt. Also look at all the cities and states like California on the verge of bankruptcy. yeah we are so productive then why is debt exploding at all levels. China is an evil communist ( and even racist monstrosity that must be stopped. don't believe it check out the laws that are prejudiced against foreigners in china)

[InterceptPoint]

I'll stick with Milton Friedman rather than Obama:

Milton Friedman on the Dangers of Protectionism (Obama's recent tariff on Chinese imports)

[rurgan]

Obama is for “free trade with China. So are pelosi , fienstein and clinton who signed the China free trade deal.

If the U.S. is so productive etc as you globalists say then prove it show the number of smart phones the U.S. manufactures, or any product more than china, be it TVs, clothes , any consumer electronic product, radios , cell phones, laptop pcs, PCS, kindles, personal computers, . come on show it show it now ,

enjoy paying your share of the exploding federal debt. do you know how much that is now? you think we can survive if almost everything we use is made in other countries and we just borrow and print more money to pay for it?

look at this video to see how much we owe and tell me then how we are not done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFP-2_iDYMU&feature=related

[Theoria]

'Interesting you're so blasé about it. '

I accept that inflation and deflation are perfectly normal in the economies we have today. I of course agree that 'government' sponsored inflation is theft. Other forms of it, say in rent seeking also causes distortions

But, inflation is not the main cause of disaster today. China, Europe, Japan, all intentionally pushed inflation. We as well, yet we are still competing against wage arbitrage, a obvious endgame is certain. Our stand or living is dropping, same as Europe. While certain developing countries are increasing in the gdp curve.

[moonshot925]

You can look here.

http://www.census.gov/manufacturing/m3/prel/pdf/table1p.pdf

American industries manufactured $475.955 Billion worth of goods in May 2012.

Our manufacturing sector is very large and productivity is increasing at a rapid pace thanks to technology.

We should embrace automation of factories because it allows us to produce so much more with less workers.

[InterceptPoint]

A couple of things.

1. The spending sprees of Washington politicians are the reason that we have a huge national debt. The fact that the Chinese own a very small fraction of that debt is immaterial - if they didn't buy it the Fed would.

2. Let's raise the price of cellphones as high as needed to give American companies essentially a monopoly on the business. What is that price? Would you buy one at that price? How many people in the retail business are going to lose their jobs because the sales of cellphones has dried up due to the high prices.

You have to look at the unintended consequences of tariffs not just the benefits.

[rurgan]

We the U.S.A, didn't trade at all with China for all of the decades of the cold war. We don't need china and what we need is a return to the trade embargo against China as one is against Cuba and North korea now. We need to stop trading with China all together. why are you all against a trade embargo against China. So we have to trade with n korea nd cuba also or we are what? What we are is close to being finished and that is because almost all of the household items we use are made in other countries. If we were so productive we wouldn't have all this debt and it's not just government debt as we have huge personal and private businees debt also.

The media brainwashes us and makes us believe that it would cost so much more to produce in the U.S.A. . more lies.

[moonshot925]

Trade is beneficial to both parties involved.

You have a good or service that I want and I have a medium of exchange that you want.

A trade embargo on China would only hurt Americans and lower our standard of living.

[rurgan]

No , the living standards of Americans went up all during the 40 years of the trade embargo against china. it was only after the trade embargo was lifted against China that the living standards of Americans have declined. Also this has been the time that debt has become unmanageable. the U.S. was able to manage the great ww2 debt all during the trade embargo against China. that was when America was America, from the 1950’s to the 1990’s. now the U.S. is in decline.

[BfloGuy]

But, inflation is not the main cause of disaster today. China, Europe, Japan, all intentionally pushed inflation. We as well, yet we are still competing against wage arbitrage, a obvious endgame is certain. Our stand or living is dropping, same as Europe. While certain developing countries are increasing in the gdp curve.

Oh, for Pete's sake. How many times do I have to say it. Wage "arbitrage" as you put it would not be an issue were it not for government-caused inflation. Yes, wages are higher in the U.S., but that is because we have so much more capital invested in technology. Those capital-caused higher wages, though, are magnified when monetary inflation causes them to rise even higher compared to wages in other countries.

Wage "arbitrage" is only an issue because of inflation. Why do you resist that point?

Surely, you know that consumer prices are rising. I mean, look at food prices alone -- oh yeah, and fuel. The same effect is happening to wages, too. American wages are pushed higher by inflation. That makes us less competitive. Gee, I don't know any more ways to explain it.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

I am to the point of saying we shut down trade with “partners” who stack the deal in their own favor.

That is what I am saying.

Anything else is moot, until we open up the deals.

What we are building now, will eventually destroy America.

Perhaps faster than eventually. This is not good.

[BfloGuy]

NO. China has risen at our expense. China has stolen U.S. industries and technology and used our technology, our U.S. market, our companies to do it.

China has risen at our expense.

Our expense? How can you say that when Americans decided to purchase Chinese goods because they were less expensive? Americans saved money. They saved money which let them spend more on other stuff. How is that "at our expense?"

China has stolen U.S. industries and technology and used our technology, our U.S. market, our companies to do it.

Well, I'll agree that the Chinese have stolen technology, but it's ridiculous to assert that they've stolen American companies. American citizens have made rational decisions to move production to China. Those decisions, presumably, made those American citizens richer.

Americans, as I understand the Republic are free agents able to earn and spend and, in general, conduct their lives as they see fit -- free of government's heavy hand. You may not like their decisions, but are you truly prepared to forbid them their liberty to do as they choose?