Catholics, moving to the right?

[Vinylly]

Seattle, WA is extreamly liberal, think -Boston liberal. Yesterday St. Benidicts in the Wallingford community was celebrating their annual 'Borkwurst' Festival to raise money for their school. I wore a 2 1/2"X 3 1/2" pen I made up on my computor that said: 'ROMNEY: God, Freedom, and Prosperity. Obama: Socialism, Slavery, and $20 TRILLION Debt.' As I walked around the playground with our family, I recieved quite a few requests to take a picture of my sign with their i-pods. One girl said she wanted to send the pic. to her dad to prove that not everybody in Wallingford was a Communist. I don't know if this says anything about the election coming up, but, don't Catholics generally vote d'RAT? Is there a change of attitude going on here? I was quite surprised how well my little slogan went over with this Catholic community.

[ansel12]

Protestants vote conservative.

Catholics, and atheists vote liberal, it is the fact of American political life.

It is truly bizarre to blame liberal victories on the group that always votes against them.

What you call merely "numbers" are the facts. If you don't like liberal politics,then vote against the democrats, if you do, then vote for them, how do Catholics vote? How have Catholics voted always, with the exception of 6 times?

[pegleg]

When the letter was finished, the congregation applauded.

Same response from my Parish.

[annalex]

Catholic vote with a slight bias toward the liberals and Protestant vote with a slight bias toward the conservatives. But except for the Kennedy disaster. American Presidents have been all Protestants and the Protestant electorate is much larger, so the (for example) 45% Protestants that vote liberal are a bigger problem than 55% Catholics: they are more people.

Besides the country was set up by the Protestants. They therefore built in the liberal bias into the system. They wrote the Constitution; they voted for Protestant Roosevelt to create the New Deal and they voted for Protestant Johnson to cement the Great Society, America’s crippling welfare system. These two defections (over the course of three election cycles) of the Protestant electorate to the left were critical in the liberal slide of the 20th century. Now they should own the outcomes of their bad theology and unworkable social theories.

If you want to move the Catholic Church to the left, come join her. There is nothing that can possibly endear you to the Luther’s and Calvin’s theological fables, and you’ll be a part of true spiritual awakening of America rather than ones watching from the sidelines and tsk-tsking over things past.

[ansel12]

You seem to have an agenda that isn’t conservative, a sort of tribal identity that trumps conservative politics, even an insulting view of America as getting better as it becomes leftist and foreign, as long as it is absorbed by Rome.

Judging by a 150 years of Catholic voting, that agenda explains why Catholics are a liberal voting block and why they are the power base of the left, as we have seen in California.

Since FR is a political site, you really should think more like a conservative, and less like someone who embraces the left as long as it can lead to America becoming Catholic.

[Excellence]

2 1/2"X 3 1/2" pen

A two and a half inch by three and a half inch pen? And people actually noticed it?

[annalex]

I don’t need you to tell me how to think, especially since you don’t seem to understand my posts. Where, for example, did you see any “tribal identity” in my posts or that I “embraced the left”?

I simply look forward rather than backward. I am, after all, both American and Catholic, and Catholic America will do just fine.

[ansel12]

You sound like a foreigner that would be happy for the original America to disappear, and for it to turn into a European like Catholic nation.

I have seen that from some tribal like Catholics, they see 1776 America as a Protestant curse of freedom and individuality, that needs to be fixed by being conquered and Europeanized, by Catholicism.

This has been the general agenda that immigration has brought to America since Catholic immigration started in the 1840s. Liberalism, unionism, and the usual problems of Europe. Today the hope for the left is that Catholic immigration will make the United States, a totally owned property of the Democrat party.

Here is the effect it has had on California.

Look at how Catholic immigration affects the vote in California, and this was in an election where life issues dominated.

[aposiopetic]

It sounds like getting Borked, but in the extreme. If I am correct, the clearest example to-date would be Clarence Thomas.

[I_be_tc]

Our priest received a standing ovation when he discussed having to disobey the government in regards to religious freedom. Everyone knew what he was discussing and we were on our feet in the middle of the sermon.

Hopefully obimbo stepped in it big time. Or as slow joe says, “this is a big fxxxing deal”.

[annalex]

Do you need any help comprehending my earlier posts regarding the value of statistics and projecting the future from them?

Protestant America did very well in the first 100 years. I would be happy if it returned to these practices; however the New Deal and the Great Society, two projects invented and put through by Protestants, foreclosed on the possibility. That is the chief failure of American Protestantism, again, as I explained before. There are others. For example, the failure to end slavery other than though the Civil War would not be possible under a Catholic leadership; the failure to end abortion today is rooted in Protestant inability to provide moral leadership.

To preserve individual freedom a nation must have an anthropological view that is correct. Protestant view is not correct: for example, it separates works from faith and has a legalistic view on the Holy Scripture; this is why we as a nation could not protect either our borders or our freedom. We therefore are looking at an historical shift away from the Calvinist value set that dominated the past two centuries and toward a more Catholic value set. You mentioned Europe, but I don’t think you did so other than as a cliche; the reality is that Europe, it seems to me, has lost its ability for renewal, and, as happened many times before, will have to rely on American leadership in these matters. If you need me to elaborate on this or on anything else you missed in my earlier posts, I’ll be happy to.

[ansel12]

Actually Protestants voted against Roosevelt in 1940 and 1944, and against Truman in 1948, against the dems in 1952, and 1956, and against JFK in 1960.

Three times they voted democrat, against all but six times for Catholics, and you think the anti-democrat voters are the problem?

If America voted like it’s original Protestant people, then we wouldn’t be in this situation, Catholics on the other hand almost always support the democrats, and while the Catholic percentage of the population won’t grow, the Catholic vote will be moving even farther left than it is today.

I was right though, you want America ended and replaced as a European, Catholic nation, closer to what you came from.

That has been the Catholic influence since they started immigrating here.

[annalex]

As I pointed out a few times, “Protestants voted Republican” or “Catholics voted Democrat” are meaningless propositions. Enough Protestants voted for the New Deal, and for the Great Society to outweigh the Catholics however it was that they voted, and yes, the immigrant vote tends to be Catholic and very bad for the country. I am very happy when the Protestants vote Protestant, but the problem is, they don’t seem to know how to win. Besides, again, as I pointed out before, America so far has been a Protestant project. If, for example, there is an engineer and he had built a plane that crashed on the ground, it happened not because the engineer wanted for the plane to crash or “voted” for it to crash; it is because his design did not prevent the plane from crashing. Again, if this thought is difficult to understand, — and since you keep repeating the statistical points it is a difficulty for you, — I will gladly explain again.

Also, your conjectures of what I am or want for America are factually false; however, quite regardless of what I am like personally (if it helps to clarify your thinking imagine you are talking to a Vatican’s secret agent and be done with my persona), would you please make a coherent comment that is not about past statistics which I never disputed, or about the harmfulness of immigration which I never disputed either?

[ansel12]

Since America is still the greatest nation on earth, your whole premise is silly, and since you ignore that Protestant voted AGAINST Obama while Catholics voted for him, you seem unreachable with reason.

America’s problem is immigration, as this thread reveals.

As far as choosing to ignore facts, no thanks, that is how you got to your mind set, ignoring facts and reality.

[demsux]

55-60% will vote for black Jesus

[annalex]

Please re-read my previous post regarding "Protestant voted AGAINST Obama while Catholics voted for him". America is still the greatest nation on earth ... America’s problem is immigration

Agree and agree, but I would add that America has more problems than immigration alone. Protestantism is a bigger problem.

[ansel12]

No, Protestantism is what created America, and made it possible.

Evangelical Protestantism is what holds it together, and keeps it going.

As a supposed conservative, you should have some awareness of voting and religion.

[annalex]

That is true that Protestantism created America and it continues to be a largely positive force today, on the strength of it being a form of Christianity.

However, if presents a flawed picture of man and his freedom. It, for example, believes that a profession of faith, apart from the daily works in the company of God toward greater acceptance of Divine Grace, is sufficient to make man free. This is manifestly not true: man is in a state of struggle which necessitates, in order for him to be free, to become free from various passions such that surround the man economic and the man sexual. The result is the formal political freedom where virtuous choice is rarely made, and in fact, the prevailing political philosophy, contaminated by Calvinism, teaches that freedom definitionally includes the practice of vice. Very quickly such formal freedom is bracketed by the nanny state, which then begins to grow a dependent political client class of men incapable of freedom: the Romney’s 47 percent.

Another defect of Protestantism is the legalistic notion of the Bible combined with populist anti-clericalism, and divorced from the historical Christianity. If you are interested I will elaborate on that in my next post.

There is something good in Protestantism, simple because Protestantism still offers, howbeit meekly, Christ as a model. But where one compares Protestantism with Catholicism, one finds the distinctives of Protestantism big on slogans but short on actually nurturing free men.

[ansel12]

When you can get Catholics to quit supporting the party of abortion and evil and liberalism, then you can try your tribal spin again, until then, which by the way will never happen, your fantasy remains only your personal fantasy.

[annalex]

Yes, it will be good if even greater number of Catholics dropped their illogical support for the "party of abortion and evil and liberalism". However, on that score, I would invite the Protestants, if they truly reject abortion and liberalism, to make the GOP into a party that puts an end to abortion and liberalism in more places than just their platform. Every time the GOP gets to power they quickly forget all about being supposedly pro-life. Every time they have a real opportunity to win an election, they make room for someone without a clear pro-life record and hush down their pro-life rhetoric in order not to scare away the mythical "undecided voter"; in the meanwhile the voter who is already decided, and instructed by their religion to vote pro-life sees no credible pro-life candidate. Something similar occurs with liberalism: GOP does a lot of chest-beating about restoring capitalism in America, then they nominate "tax collectors for the welfare state": classic examples are Romney and his wobbly pro-life record (and, what should be clearly unacceptable to any Christian, Mormonism) and Dole with his career in the US Senate making tax deals. Every time the GOP nominates someone lately, the Tea Party has to fight not the Democrats but the GOP to get a true conservative in the race. That is the Protestant leadership in the GOP: cowards and weasels. If you want to attract a greater number of Catholics, become attractive.

Yes, I have personal opinions. I also argument them. If you don't agree with them, argue back; that is what the Free Republic is for.

[ansel12]

What you can’t escape with your anti-Americanism, is that Protestantism leads to conservatism, and Catholicism leads to liberalism, that is why the rewriting of our Immigration laws to import democrats, was such a deliberate strategy of the left, to gain power over America, Catholics=liberalism=the end of the original Americans of 1776.