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Lake City Ammunition Plant offers layoffs (Missouri)
kmbc ^ | Mar 07, 2013

Posted on 03/07/2013 9:44:35 AM PST by JoeProBono

The Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Independence is offering its hourly workers voluntary layoffs, with the possibility of involuntary layoffs to follow.

A spokesman for Alliant Techsystems, which operates the U.S. Army plant in Independence, said modernization at the plant is the main reason for the job reductions.

Spokesman Bryan Kidder said the number of expected job cuts and their timing is not known. He said it's likely involuntary layoffs will follow the voluntary departures, in an effort to reduce the workforce of about 2,600.

The Kansas City Star reported that the plant has undergone $400 million in renovations to increase the efficiency of producing ammunition for the Army.

Kidder also attributed the cutbacks to recent reductions in U.S. military actions.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: ammo; ammunition; banglist; guncontrol; layoffs; manufacturing; secondamendment; usarmy

Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (LCAAP) is a 3,935-acre (15.92 km2) U.S. government-owned, contractor-operated facility in northeastern Independence, Missouri that was established by Remington Arms in 1941 to manufacture and test small caliber ammunition for the U.S. Army. The facility has remained in continuous operation except for one 5-year period following World War II.[1][2] As of July 2007, the plant produced nearly 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition per year.[3] In addition, Lake City performs small caliber ammunition stockpile reliability testing and has ammunition and weapon testing responsibilities as the NATO National and Regional Test Center.

Remington Arms operated the plant from its inception until 1985, when operations were taken over by Olin Corporation.[2] Since April 2001, it has been operated by Alliant Techsystems (ATK). LCAAP is the single largest producer of small arms ammunition for the United States military.


1 posted on 03/07/2013 9:44:38 AM PST by JoeProBono
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To: JoeProBono

Do, they are like “fired?”


2 posted on 03/07/2013 9:48:03 AM PST by freedumb2003 (I learned everything I needed to know about racism from Colin Powell)
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To: JoeProBono

Privatize it. Sell to private citizens. Production would have to double to meet demand.


3 posted on 03/07/2013 9:48:18 AM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: JoeProBono
WHAT!?

How about you crank up Lake City, Federal Government instead of buying up all of Winchester's stock!?

Oh, I am sorry, I forgot it's not about Lake City or the Government needing more/less bullets.

It's about waging a Proxy Cold War against it's own people.

G-d Help Us!


4 posted on 03/07/2013 9:49:32 AM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: JoeProBono

Wonder if we could purchase the old line, and move it to Texas. Brass is very very short.

Instant and recurrent civilian demand.


5 posted on 03/07/2013 9:57:12 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: JoeProBono

This is only possible if it is being orchestrated by the current administration. It is not possible for any ammunition manufacturer to be lacking business right now. With the exception of WWII, demand for ammunition has never been higher in the US. If you can make it, you can sell it. If they sell directly to the civilian market they would immediately have 1-2 years worth of orders. They could literally run 24/7 and not catch up. 500-1000 round boxes of Lake City 5.56 green tips are out of stock at Cheaper Than Dirt. When they come in they are gone instantly.

This has to be market manipulation.


6 posted on 03/07/2013 10:02:06 AM PST by servo1969
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To: JoeProBono
Simple solution, start selling to the civilian market! They`d be profit making and running 24/7 with mandatory overtime enforced.
7 posted on 03/07/2013 10:16:38 AM PST by nomad
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To: JoeProBono

How ironic; one of the most valuable, sought-after commodities in America right now is in desperately short supply, and the factory is laying off workers. Only in Obama’s America.


8 posted on 03/07/2013 10:22:41 AM PST by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

If Army Ammunition Plants are like the Air Force Plants for plane production, the plants and facilities belong to the government and the vendor only ‘operates’ the plant. It is true here in Georgia with LM (formerly Lockheed, Bell,etc.) in Marietta - it is Air Force Plant No. 6. Likewise for the facility in DFW.....elsewhere the same.

I’m guessing they can’t sell to private sales unless they are marginal ‘firsts’ - seconds that the government has either surplussed or QC’d out. I know I always bought up scads of its SS109s when they hit the market....(I’m good now with my 5.56s...)


9 posted on 03/07/2013 10:25:49 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: JoeProBono; freedumb2003
This is the up and down in the workforce numbers that is a way of life at ammo plants. What is not noted is that this is the sole production site for a number of heavily used small arms munitions items. The Army GOCO (Government owned contractor operated) munitions base is now very very flat indeed. There are only single production points for most munitions and explosive items. In any significant protracted high intensity military operation significant shortages in basic load ammo items would appear in a matter of a few weeks. The Wizards of Smart at RAND and Brookings and inside the beltway have convinced themselves that there never will be another protracted high intensity combat operation and that SOF, drones and robots can handle any contingency that arises on the ground. Before Korea it was said that ‘air power’ would assure us that nothing like a land war would occur so the Army could be reduced to little more than a constabulary to police occupied former enemy nations. While i am not an enthusiast for MacArthur,his insistence that the 8th Army HQ remain in place and that US forces in Japan would continue to be structured as tactical units and not be turned into a glorified police force, as was done in Germany, at least preserved an operational structure that allowed the US Army to mount a campaign in Korea. US forces in japan were in wretched shape to fight but at least there was an organizational skeleton to base war fighting on. We are doing the same thing today with the structure of Army tactical units with the potential for a very nasty surprise somewhere no one is even thinking about today. ‘No More task Force Smith's’, like hell.
10 posted on 03/07/2013 10:26:00 AM PST by robowombat
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To: JoeProBono

They must be forced to keep the old manufacturing methods and the employees. Automation is no excuse for a layoff.

< / economic troglodism >


11 posted on 03/07/2013 10:45:12 AM PST by Uncle Miltie (Due Process 2013: "Burn the M*****-F***er Down!")
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To: Gaffer

Oh I know you are right. I just couldn’t resist the opportunity to be sarcastic.

OTOH, does Lake City mfg a variety of calibers? If so, why isn’t it supplying DHS with all the ammo they are so interested in acquiring?

Right now I’d like to get my mitts on a truck load of 22LR. I could use that like the coin of the realm.


12 posted on 03/07/2013 11:01:16 AM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

“Right now I’d like to get my mitts on a truck load of 22LR. I could use that like the coin of the realm.”

Interesting that 22LR is in such short supply. Easier to understand 5.56 or 7.62 and the various pistol ammos other than 22LR...

I do have a high regard for 22LR...versatile and lethal. I’m looking for some too.


13 posted on 03/07/2013 11:06:27 AM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: Uncle Miltie
They must be forced to keep the old manufacturing methods and the employees. Automation is no excuse for a layoff.

Automation will indeed cause layoff, as you need less employees. Taken by itself it all appears reasonable, until you catch them deceiving you through the spokespuppet:

Kidder also attributed the cutbacks to recent reductions in U.S. military actions.

While this on the face is possibly true, the demand certainly remains, as evidenced by the tight ammo market. I own a bunch of Lake City M855 (5.56), but haven't seen any in the stores in months. That means the spokespuppet was trying to deceive by insinuating that demand is down. Since this line is obvious B.S., perhaps the whole part about this coming from automation is as well.

Only an idiot or a fellow traveler would assume the automation part is true when the slowdown part not.

14 posted on 03/07/2013 11:08:12 AM PST by BlueMondaySkipper (Involuntarily subsidizing the parasite class since 1981)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

If that every happens, ppl will counterfeit em by filling em with sand.


15 posted on 03/07/2013 11:08:15 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: freedumb2003

Another Obamatron scheme to reduce the availability of ammo. That plant ought to be sold to private interests.


16 posted on 03/07/2013 11:10:48 AM PST by backwoods-engineer (Blog: www.BackwoodsEngineer.com)
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To: ChildOfThe60s
Right now I’d like to get my mitts on a truck load of 22LR. I could use that like the coin of the realm.

That stuff, my FRiend, is like gold. You cannot find it anywhere save one box a gun seller is willing to sell you when you buy a gun. Walmart gets it in, I've seen it hit twice in the last month. Each time, the employees buy it up before you ever see it. You can buy it online if you can use ELEY ammo and pay about 20 Cents each bullet... As far as what LC manufactures, I've only bought SS109 from there and that was when it was a steal...

17 posted on 03/07/2013 11:16:25 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: JoeProBono

IOW, if the army can’t make their own ammo, el dictator can take over private ammo companies thus cutting off ammo sales to citizens. Hey, if you can’t ban guns fast enough, you go after the ammo. What’s next, food, utilites and fuel? The only jobs left will be the engineer running the cattle cars to FEMA camps.


18 posted on 03/07/2013 12:00:33 PM PST by bgill
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To: BlueMondaySkipper
Alliant is also the parent corporation of Federal and CCI, some of which I believe is manufactured for the commercial market at the Lake City facility. There are probably contract provisions which stipulate what percentage of the facility's output can be used for non-government orders.

As for lower military demand, I think that's true. We're no longer pushing through Afghanistan or Iraq, and it's important not to confuse civilian government purchasing with DOD.

Sure, the timing is suspicious - but so is everything else about this administration.

19 posted on 03/07/2013 12:03:48 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: Gaffer

It’s my understanding that the Lake City plants only produce ammo for the army. I could be wrong. The ammo purchased by civilians is ammo that couldn’t pass inspection. Also, and again I could the wrong, the only plants that produce 5.56 are Us army contract plants. Why that is, I have no idea. And there is a difference in 5.56 vs .223


20 posted on 03/07/2013 12:09:52 PM PST by saleman
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To: JoeProBono

They need to start making .22 long rifle hollow points, they will never run out of work.


21 posted on 03/07/2013 12:13:10 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

A good .22 with a good scope will reach out a lot further than most people suspect. The little rimfire scopes are almost useless.


22 posted on 03/07/2013 12:16:25 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: saleman

I understand all that...it is why I stipulated “seconds” or overage, or QC’d - quality control..... This ammo I’ve bought that was seconded was largely cosmetic...works fine.

I also am very familiar betweent he difference between .223 and 5.56 mm.... the latter has higher chamber pressure and a longer “leade”....I’ve had arguments about this before but there IS a difference. The “leade” is a difference in case length at the neck and relates to the chamber reaming in the barrel....you can google the SAAMI specs on the two and readily see the difference.

If your barrel doesn’t say 5.56mm don’t shoot that ammo, period... Some say Bushmaster rifles can shoot either, but I wouldn’t try it. I’ve got a 1970 AR-15 COLT SP-1 that has .223 on it and I won’t even try the 5.56 surplus in it, even though the old wives say all early Colts were 223/5.56 optional.


23 posted on 03/07/2013 12:26:20 PM PST by Gaffer
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
.22LR LETHALITY - 300 Yard Ballistics Test
24 posted on 03/07/2013 12:28:11 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: saleman

Back when there was plenty of 5.56 NATO ammo to be had, there were ads advertising “Made at Lake City ammo plant to Federal’s specifications for commercial ammo...”, or some similar words to that effect.


25 posted on 03/07/2013 12:31:11 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: Gaffer
I’ve got a 1970 AR-15 COLT SP-1 that has .223 on it and I won’t even try the 5.56 surplus in it, even though the old wives say all early Colts were 223/5.56 optional.

There's a specific hand-turned reamer that cuts only the leade / throat area of a .223 chamber to 5.56 NATO specs. It doesn't mess with headspace because the cartridge neck area is not changed. You just oil it, drop it in and turn it until you feel it turn smoothly (cutting completed).

26 posted on 03/07/2013 12:40:30 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
How far will a .22 LR Kill?
27 posted on 03/07/2013 12:44:44 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

Cost of centerfire ammo has, for some time, made 22LR the ammo of choice for regular practice. I had already gotten to doing 75% of my rifle practice with my 22 and a smaller amount with my other calibers. That would partly account for higher demand for 22LR.

However, 22LR are cranked out in huge quantities and the amount showing up on the retail market at any price is almost nothing. Logic says that we should be having higher prices but still reasonable availability. Not the case, you can’t get target grade 22LR at any price. Production is either way down, or a huge amount is vanishing when it leaves the mfg. I’m not making up conspiracy theories, but anecdotal evidence says that the quantity reaching the retail markets is a fraction of a year ago. A very small fraction. So, if production hasn’t dropped, where is it? There ought to be a crapload out there for $50 a brick. There isn’t.


28 posted on 03/07/2013 12:45:25 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: Gaffer
I've had guys at the shooting range, picking up brass, say they've been reloading for years...and still claim .223 and 5.56 are the same. I just shrug my shoulders. Both my Ar's are marked 5.56. Still AFAIK, no one but Govt plants load 5.56. Why is that? Is there some kinda law or something against anyone else loading the slightly hotter load? I know the ss and m loads are what the “guys in the know” prefer so it would seem there would be plenty of market for them.
29 posted on 03/07/2013 12:55:10 PM PST by saleman
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To: Charles Martel

You can do that. Just don’t try to load 5.56 in a .223 chamber. Pressure Likely it won’t do much. But I won’t try it. Certainly not a wholesale switch. Reloading and k owing what you’re doing is a different story.


30 posted on 03/07/2013 1:11:59 PM PST by Gaffer
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To: saleman

I’ve goat a lot of Guatemalan surplus. Shoots real good.


31 posted on 03/07/2013 1:13:38 PM PST by Gaffer
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To: ChildOfThe60s
However, 22LR are cranked out in huge quantities and the amount showing up on the retail market at any price is almost nothing.

CCI in Idaho can make over a million rounds a day, and they're just one manufacturer.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=CCI+ammunition+production+video&mid=B0BD3C4FC84F5CCBC105B0BD3C4FC84F5CCBC105&view=detail&FORM=VIRE2

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=.22Long+rifle+ammunition+manufacture+(part+2+of+2)&view=detail&mid=F1148A4CB76BA53351C5F1148A4CB76BA53351C5&first=0&FORM=NVPFVR

32 posted on 03/07/2013 1:37:43 PM PST by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: Gaffer
Yep, the .223 in a 5.56 chamber is okay, but that's a one-way street. That's why I mentioned the reamer and modifying the SP1's chamber. Should the military-spec 5.56 be the only stuff around, it'd be nice to have faith that it was safe to use in your rifle.

It's basically the same thing I had done to my dad's old 20-gauge side-by-side years ago. That shotgun was designed for paper shells and fiber shot wads; the plastic shot cups in modern shotshells call for a more gradual forcing cone (shotgun version of "leade"). That simple mod made the gun pattern better and reduced the plastic fouling in the bore.

33 posted on 03/07/2013 1:57:54 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: IYAS9YAS
However, 22LR are cranked out in huge quantities and the amount showing up on the retail market at any price is almost nothing.

CCI in Idaho can make over a million rounds a day, and they're just one manufacturer.

So, do you have any theories?

34 posted on 03/07/2013 2:10:22 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: JoeProBono

I knew a guy that had owned the cabinet chest company that made the ammo cases that Lake City liked and specified. He sold is company for a fortune in the mid 1970s and lived another 40 years on what he made.


35 posted on 03/07/2013 2:16:22 PM PST by KC Burke (Plain Conservative opinions and common sense correction for thirteen years.)
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To: ChildOfThe60s
So, do you have any theories?

Yeah, they range from complete whack-job, to normal and mundane. The complete whack-job theory is that someone's pressuring them to reduce production, and telling them not to be public with it. There don't appear to be any recent government contract stories on .22LR.

The mundane is that, with the rising cost of everything else, folks are turning to .22LR for practice and plinking.

Combine that with the increased real fear of infringement of rights/societal breakdown and folks are simply stripping the shelves bare of anything they can get their hands on.

36 posted on 03/07/2013 2:20:48 PM PST by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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