Posted on 06/20/2013 12:01:02 PM PDT by Resettozero
Recently I was asked about a very difficult situation.
A woman has been married to a man with a long-term addiction to pornography. The last few years he’s been trying to stop, but by his own efforts alone. When she asks him if he’s struggling he will deny it. She finds out he’s using again and then has the double-hurt of his use and his lying.
At one point, with her husband’s permission, she talked with their pastor (who is also her husband’s brother) about this situation. He told her that her husband had to seek help (true) and that there was nothing he could do (not necessarily true). He then said a prayer. If her hope was for anything more than that, she was disappointed.
She concluded this part of her story (there is another piece of the story we’ll take up in subsequent post) by saying “this problem has gone on for so long I don’t talk to my husband about it anymore.”
(Excerpt) Read more at covenanteyes.com ...
No, I mean what I said. Read my entire comment.
“By then he should again be in a team with his wife, working together.”
This is key. They are working at confrontation, cross purposes and not together. Telling her to go see a ‘support group’, does nothing to address this.
I truly don’t know what to say to you.
You seem determined to lay the blame for HIS pornography prediliction at her feet, assuming it’s “because she won’t do it enough.” There is NO excuse for what he’s doing, and is not HER fault, anymore than if he had gone out and had an actual affair.
You have the word want and need mixed up. I suspect you need a million bucks and can justify holding up a bank to get it with this logic.
Nobody has a need for oxycotton till they smoke it... once.
Then their life is over. Without the intervention of God, they are all dead men walking.
Blaming this guys giving himself over to his lust on his wife is like blaming hetrosexuals for Homosexuality. It is the same thing, nobody is born homosexual, but anybody can surrender to their evil inclination and become what every that path leads to. Homosexuality, Porn, drug or alcohol or pot addiction. Cutters end up “needing” to slice up their arms with razorblades.
They are not born that way. The spiritual choices you make have consequences just like the phyisical choices you make.
Its called life, consequences come built in. So does justification and excuses, but they in the end have much less effect than consequences.
What does the man want? How about this: the sight of a flawless, younger airbrushed body and a perfect make-up job, instead of a woman his age whose flaws are well known to him? NOT a justification by any stretch, but an answer to your question that is much more sensible than your psychobabble...
And some women are not warm and loving and basically drive their husbands to porn.
Not that it then becomes okay for him to indulge, but let’s recognize that some women are not interested in meeting their husband’s sexual needs. Some women are selfish, just like some men are selfish. Or sometimes they have “issues” that make it difficult for them to participate passionately.
1 Cor. 7: 7:1 Now with regard to the issues you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But because of immoralities, each man should have relations with his own wife and each woman with her own husband. 3 A husband should give to his wife her sexual rights, and likewise a wife to her husband. 4 It is not the wife who has the rights to her own body, but the husband. In the same way, it is not the husband who has the rights to his own body, but the wife. 5 Do not deprive each other, except by mutual agreement for a specified time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then resume your relationship, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
IOW, depriving your partner may lead him into sinning.
Tell me then, what are your thoughts on 1 Cor 7:4, about the statement that a husband’s body belongs to his wife, and a wife’s body to her husband?
Do you agree/disagree with it?
If the wife is not having sex with her husband and her husband is frustrated, that is a possible cause for what is going on. I did say that it is a possibility that he’s also conditioned from before.
You seem intent to blame the husband when all we have is the wife’s side of the story here, we have that the wife went to his brother the pastor, etc. We don’t have the husband’s side of the story.
He refuses to accept responsibility. So why does that mean SHE should not find support and advice?
Did you read the article from the above paragraph?
“What does the man want? How about this: the sight of a flawless, younger airbrushed body and a perfect make-up job, instead of a woman his age whose flaws are well known to him? NOT a justification by any stretch, but an answer to your question that is much more sensible than your psychobabble.”
So why’s he preferring to look at pictures of such a woman to having sex with the wife who’s there. Do you think that looking at the pictures is as satisfying as sex?
I don’t think so, and I’d really be surprised if the husband felt that way to.
“He refuses to accept responsibility. So why does that mean SHE should not find support and advice?
Did you read the article from the above paragraph?”
Yes I did. You’re aware that we have the wife’s side of the story here? Have we a statement from her husband?
Has anyone asked the question, “what needs does the husband have that aren’t being met?”
I haven’t even said that she is not having sex with him, I don’t know. I haven’t even said that she is to blame for what he’s done.
The only question I’ve dealt with is what should the wife do to fix things. You aren’t going to fix things until you get an idea as to what the husband actually wants, not just what he thinks his wife wants to here. The truth. What does he really want?
There is no “side” to the husband here. He is in the wrong by having a regular, “uncontrollable” pasttime of pornography. I don’t care if they have sex 10 times a day or once a year. It is IRRELEVANT to what he’s doing.
Regarding the duty of spouses to be physically loving, okay, let’s say she isn’t. Let’s even call that her “sin”. He then gets a pass for the sin of lust or adultery? Because that’s where you’re headed here, and that’s what you seem intent on justifying.
I’ll have the same question for the cutters. What exactly is cutting doing for you that you feel better doing it?
You can’t address the problem, without assuming that people do things because they get something out of it.
If people have a problem generally it’s because they are using something as a substitute for something else - something that they are generally unhappy about. You can’t address the problem unless you deal with this first.
You can make all the assumptions you want, etc, but it bears down to this.
It just seems more likely that the guy needs to look in towards himself to find why his wife is acting so. After all, The most natural thing in world, ‘cept for maybe dying, is to do the naughty; and if he has driven his wife away from that, he needs to figure out why.
This has already been explained. See #14. See #46.
You’re aware that we have the wife’s side of the story here? Have we a statement from her husband?
We have the wife's side because that's what the article is about! The husband was not part of the discussion with the author, because (see my last post) he has REFUSED to take responsibility. He has already told his wife this. At that point, there is nothing more the author, the pastor, a counselor OR THE WIFE can do. This does NOT mean, however, that she shouldn't seek some kind of advice and "support" on how to get by living with the creep!
“There is no “side” to the husband here. He is in the wrong by having a regular, “uncontrollable” pasttime of pornography. I don’t care if they have sex 10 times a day or once a year. It is IRRELEVANT to what he’s doing.”
No, it’s not. It is relevant, and that relevant information is not provided. It can be controlled. That’s the point. If it couldn’t be fixed, then there’s no point in seeking therapy.
Do you believe that a husband’s body belongs to his wife or the wife to her husband’s?
“He then gets a pass for the sin of lust or adultery?”
No, he doesn’t. However, to fix the problem of his porn use the solution requires them figuring out how to talk to each other to meet each other’s needs.
Before anything else. Before even the porn. If you can’t go to your wife and tell her that you want sex and have an adult conversation about it then there is a communication problem.
You spoke lots about sacrifice... this is part of how a wife will sacrifice to her husband. We hear all the time about how a husband is supposed to work and provide for his wife, but precious little ink spilled on this.
Why? This isn’t controversial - the comparison is exactly the same. Both are husbandly duties and both are wifely duties.
“you seem intent on justifying.”
I’m intent on showing that a husband and wife are supposed to have sex with one another. Them not having sex = problems. Is that the case here? I don’t know. Is it a possibility? Absolutely.
I agree with you.
My wife says because I don’t do enough housework...
Fine. Then perhaps the husband needs to be part of the next pastoral visit or counseling session. To this point, he has refused. He knows his wife knows about the porn. They've had conversations. He knows it's a problem, and has "tried to stop with his own efforts." That hasn't worked and he isn't willing yet to do anything else, besides continue wallowing in the gutter.
Could there be "more" to the story? Are there "issues" between this couple that need resolving? Undoubtedly so. But the article is not purporting to be about THE COUPLE seeking help. Only SHE did. Had they come to the author/counselor together seeking intervention and advice, I could see your point and understand your questions delving into further issues. But the husband has chosen NOT to take part. The author/counselor is left with the correct decision to give advice to the ADULT who DID seek help.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.