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Why cheap meat costs the Earth
The Guardian (UK) ^ | 9-4-2013 | Alex Renton

Posted on 09/06/2013 3:47:11 AM PDT by Renfield

In the rich world, each of us consumes or uses 30 or more animals a year (the bulk – 52 of the 59 billion – are chickens). We don't, in the nutritional sense, need these animals to feed us – certainly not in those numbers. Yet, in order to eat them at an acceptable price we have to imprison them, alter them genetically and chemically, and kill them. We have moved inexorably into ever greyer ethical territory. Any planning for a food future that still envisages using animal products and meat must debate the "moral cost".

I am not sentimental. I have killed and butchered many kinds of animals, and have been on prearranged visits to slaughterhouses in Britain and abroad. I have seen the job done carefully and kindly. It would have been better if I had just dropped in to those abattoirs, but the business of meat production is secretive; if it were public, it would lose customers. In some places, the meat trade is less shy: I've seen puppies blow-torched in tiny cages to remove their hair before butchering – a normal village practice in Vietnam.....

(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: Agriculture; Food; Pets/Animals
KEYWORDS: agriculture; animalnuts; animals; communismkills; meat; slaughterhouses; socialism; veganism

1 posted on 09/06/2013 3:47:11 AM PDT by Renfield
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To: Renfield

If you don’t want to eat meat, don’t.

Our vegetarian relatives died without issue.

So is there a price for tigers to eat meat?


2 posted on 09/06/2013 3:55:16 AM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: Renfield

if God didn’t want us to eat animals, then why did He make them out of meat ?


3 posted on 09/06/2013 3:55:20 AM PDT by kingattax (America needs more real Americans.)
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To: Renfield

Meat is murder...tasty murder.


4 posted on 09/06/2013 4:01:01 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: kingattax

Tell that to a card-carrying PETA hypocrite and watch their eyes pop right out of their skull.


5 posted on 09/06/2013 4:01:10 AM PDT by lbryce (The 22nd Amendment Lives:1142 Days Until America's Greatest Nemesis Gets the Heave "Ho")
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To: Renfield

Amazing how even lefty PETA types understand basic underlying price-setting functions of supply and demand when it suits them.


6 posted on 09/06/2013 4:08:25 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer

I prefer my steak Med Well, not over peppered. My Ribs wet, Longhorns makes wonderful ones, my burgers,pork chops, plump chickens and turkey moist and juicy. Left overs turned into soups or noodles and meat with veggies.

Low cholesterol dieting is killing people and they don’t realize it. You are becoming Iodine deficient, nutrient deficient from not consuming what GOD made for you to eat.

People Eating Tasty Animals.


7 posted on 09/06/2013 4:18:48 AM PDT by GailA (THOSE WHO DON'T KEEP PROMISES TO THE MILITARY, WON'T KEEP THEM TO U!)
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To: Orangedog

My uncle lived off wild game, not store bought stuff. He lived until he was nearly 90 and old age got him, not disease.


8 posted on 09/06/2013 4:20:38 AM PDT by GailA (THOSE WHO DON'T KEEP PROMISES TO THE MILITARY, WON'T KEEP THEM TO U!)
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To: Renfield

The cattle we raise eat stuff we can’t, and turn it into stuff we can use.

Which do you want for dinner? Beef or corn fodder? How about some rained-on hay? Or, if you would like your meal minimally processed, go out and graze for a couple of hours.

That’s why God made ruminants like cattle, sheep, goats, deer and their relatives.


9 posted on 09/06/2013 4:21:59 AM PDT by Cloverfarm (This too shall pass ...)
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To: Cloverfarm
The cattle we raise eat stuff we can’t, and turn it into stuff we can use.

In history classes when I was young, you would hear about how the Plains Indians would use every part of the buffalo for something or other, and the "senseless slaughter" of the Plains buffalo by the white people.

It wasn't "senseless" slaughter. There was nothing on the Plains except buffalo and grass, and humans can't eat grass. If your objective was to get rid of the Indians, the best way to do it was to eliminate the buffalo, leaving the Indians with a choice of moving or starving.

10 posted on 09/06/2013 4:30:35 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Renfield

Mr. Renton is horrified at people eating chicken. How does he feel about the holocaust of abortion?


11 posted on 09/06/2013 4:45:16 AM PDT by iowamark (I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy)
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To: Renfield

People have trouble with killing a chicken and yet they don’t mind knocking off a human fetus that is tomorrow’s future genius.

My morals are in the right place, maybe they should rethink theirs.


12 posted on 09/06/2013 4:46:57 AM PDT by Venturer ( cowardice posturing as tolerance =political correctness)
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To: Renfield
so why hasn't man evolved to the point of our CANINE teeth becoming just another set of grinders then???

feh...

13 posted on 09/06/2013 4:52:50 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Renfield

Whenever possible I prefer to kill my own meat.


14 posted on 09/06/2013 5:02:42 AM PDT by logic101.net (How many more children must die on the altar of "gun free zones"?)
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To: Venturer

That was my thought as well - “ethically greyer”, my patoot.


15 posted on 09/06/2013 5:10:55 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Renfield

If morality has an explicitly Judeo/Christian foundation, there is no moral case to be made concerning non human beasts or plants, or, for that matter, minerals.
We are called to be in dominion over the earth, not to be its wife. Animals and plants are food and shelter, not cohabitants.
Providing animals with rights to the land that supercede human ownership is in violation of God’s specific law concerning nature. Environmental law is at war with the Bible.


16 posted on 09/06/2013 5:18:25 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Renfield
Yet, in order to eat them at an acceptable price we have to imprison them, alter them genetically and chemically, and kill them.

So, what is your point?

17 posted on 09/06/2013 5:37:52 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: PapaBear3625

Indians drove entire buffalo herds over cliffs, and yet white man is the one who is guilty of killing them all off.


18 posted on 09/06/2013 5:41:07 AM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: Orangedog

My wife had a bumper sticker on her car that said:

“Meat is yummy”


19 posted on 09/06/2013 5:43:58 AM PDT by PATRIOT1876
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To: GailA
People Eating Tasty Animals. Now that's got a story behind it to gladden the heart of every red-blooded American meat eater.

In the early days of the internet, companies weren't aware of the implications that required them to register their name as an internet domain and for many years individuals who had the foresight to do just that, owned domain names for any of the largest corporations in America until the process was finally resolved to the benefit of Corporate America.

But in the ensuing years, confusion, anger reigned by those who saw the domain name process as some version of the Wild West, extorting companies for untold millions for the release of their company's rightful domain name.

But until the issue was resolved, people were able to own the domain name of any number of corporations simply by getting there first.

One of the classic stories of domain name hijacking was regarding this guy, a fellow PETA-hater brother of ours who had the insight to register PETA.com with a website that vegetarians, and lovers of God's creatures would visit and be horrified by the what they saw when logging onto PETA.com

Welcome to PETA.com People Eating Tasty Animals.

The legal battle by PETA to wrest the domain name from the PETA-hater domain name owner was a legal battle that ensued many years nd at considerable cost to PETA. But in the end PETA won the right to its domain name PETA.com. But not before years of horror and torment for animals lovers, as well as years of joy and ecstasy for PETA-haters.

20 posted on 09/06/2013 5:47:47 AM PDT by lbryce (The 22nd Amendment Lives:1142 Days Until America's Greatest Nemesis Gets the Heave "Ho")
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To: Renfield

There is no “moral cost.” At least not within any moral framework I recognize.


21 posted on 09/06/2013 5:49:07 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: Renfield; Revolting cat!; GeronL
Soylent Green. It's the ONLY way.

Gaia is a harsh mistress.


22 posted on 09/06/2013 5:50:55 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: PapaBear3625

That tale of using every part of the buffalo but the bellow is bullroar anyway. It was not uncommon for the Indians to stampede massive herds of bison over cliffs, then to pick off the animals that had been injured by the fall. And it was highly unlikely that a single tribe could even begin to process the thousands of animals killed in such wholesale fashion, let alone to use every part of them.

It’s just more “Dances with Wolves” mythology.


23 posted on 09/06/2013 5:54:57 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: PapaBear3625
I heard that in the old days a herd of buffalo would be like a river that went on and on and on and on. Can't run a railway system safely through something like that.


24 posted on 09/06/2013 5:55:40 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Renfield

Oh Waiter, I’d like a New York Strip, medium rare!


25 posted on 09/06/2013 5:57:03 AM PDT by njmaugbill
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To: logic101.net

This thread makes me want to go fix myself a nice “cannibal sandwich”.

Cheeseheads will know what that is. Yum!


26 posted on 09/06/2013 6:18:42 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: Renfield

Leftists stay up at night in fear that the third world will find a way to make more than $2 a day.


27 posted on 09/06/2013 6:20:36 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: GailA

That’s the point I was trying to make here. I used to live like that when I lived where I had places to hunt; I’m trying to get back to that lifestyle.

Once (while on a hunting trip, coincidentally) on the eastern shore of Virginia, a friend and I had to spend some time driving right behind a truck full of chickens that had just been removed from the chicken house, and which were going to the slaughterhouse. They should have been white, but they were all a dingy grayish-brown, from having been stacked many cages high; they had been covered in each other’s excrement all of their lives. The stench was ghastly, almost indescribable, and I though we would succumb to it before we were able to pass the truck.

When you buy chicken in the store, that isn’t free-range chicken, this is what you are buying....meat from birds raised in unsanitary and unnatural conditions. We need to move away from this sort of toxic agriculture; the consequences of it are negative and long-lasting.


28 posted on 09/06/2013 6:33:43 AM PDT by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Renfield
We have moved inexorably into ever greyer ethical territory.

Yeah right, because when Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon or even American Indians drove a huge herd of mammals like Mammoth or bison over a cliff and only butchered a few and left the others to slowly die, we were SOOOOO ethical back then.

29 posted on 09/06/2013 6:40:41 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Bulwyf

Exactly correct.

The only difference was the white man had better technology to kill more, and there were a lot more white men than Indians doing the killing toward the end of the 1800s.


30 posted on 09/06/2013 6:42:38 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: lbryce

I’ll bet most PETA types are pro-abortion. The next time one of them scolds you for eating meat, ask them if they’re pro-choice on abortion. When they say yes, simply say you’re pro-choice on eating meat. Then watch their heads explode.


31 posted on 09/06/2013 6:44:13 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: Renfield

The problem with that is factory farming is very efficient and keeps the costs down. Free range chicken is great but if that’s all there was then chicken would be $20 a pound and many wouldn’t be able to afford it.

We should find technological ways to keep some chicken’s crap off of the others but they are pretty stupid and unsanitary and will eat poo. Even chickens I have here at home peck at other animal poo—like goat, horse, dog, and I’ve even seen them dig up the cat’s outdoor area and peck at the cat poo. They don’t finish it ever so I assume they are going after the bugs, but then they are eating bugs that just dined on poo...


32 posted on 09/06/2013 6:48:59 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Renfield; Alas Babylon!
We need to move away from this sort of toxic agriculture; the consequences of it are negative and long-lasting.

Eventually, the new techniques for growing meat in a lab will become widespread. A future generation will grow up eating it, think nothing of it, and the problem will be solved. Toxic agriculture is thriving right now for the same reason the toxic finance and toxic defense industries are: many if not most of our representatives are bought and paid for, and they know they have to stay bought - or else.

33 posted on 09/06/2013 6:53:38 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: Renfield

I’m all for PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals


34 posted on 09/06/2013 6:56:09 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Renfield
What you were following was a truckload of spent laying hens destined for pet food.

Broilers and fryers are slaughtered at 6 - 8 weeks and are generally much more healthy looking when raised in confinement than in the backyard. It's not so much that poultrymen are personally all that concerned with the sensibilities of 21st Century yuppies, but it's far more efficient to feed chicks a controlled diet in a disease free environment and to slaughter them quickly, than to let them forage on their own and hope that they grow up before disease, or the neighbor's cat, removes them from inventory.

35 posted on 09/06/2013 7:07:47 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Alas Babylon!

A generation or two ago, it was common knowledge that, if you fed cattle, your pigs and chickens would eat for free.


36 posted on 09/06/2013 7:10:35 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Mr. Lucky
A generation or two ago, it was common knowledge that, if you fed cattle, your pigs and chickens would eat for free.

(Not being sarcastic) Due to the waste food from the cattle? I'm not familiar with this, never having spent much time on a farm.

37 posted on 09/06/2013 7:24:57 AM PDT by MortMan (Disarming the sheep only emboldens the wolves.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

I don’t agree. Have you ever been a farmer?

You are competing, like any business man, to sell your products to the highest bidder to maximize your profits while keeping your expenses down.

It would be great to be an organic farmer, never using chemicals, but that usually means your yield is much less compared to those who use chemical fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides. If you can find niche buyers; great, but for most farmers, this is not viable.

The fact that farmers love subsidies for corn is not because congressman voted for it, but the other way around. The farmers vote for those who give them more profit.

There are millions of farmers out there. A substantial number lose their farms due to crop failures, weather, over production during abundant years, etc, etc. So keeping costs down and getting the best yield, animal or plant, is where farmers want(and need) to be.

Factories will always out-produce home-made industries. Same goes for farming techniques.

Cheap abundant food is a mark of Western civilization. There is, however, like anything else in this world, a cost associated with that. Most are willing to pay it, or at least not worry about it.


38 posted on 09/06/2013 7:26:32 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: MortMan
Corn isn't all that efficiently digested. Although feedlot rations now are pretty efficient, in the good old days a steer's foraging on pasture would be supplemented by a bucket of shelled or ear corn thrown in the trough. Pigs would then "follow" the steers in the same feedlot and chickens would clean up after everybody.

Eggs from hens fed on such a diet made incredible noodles.

39 posted on 09/06/2013 7:33:10 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: PapaBear3625

Pork was more popular than beef here in Easter NC generations ago because it cost less. I remember my friend who grew up during those times tell me that the only part of the hog that they threw away was the squeal.


40 posted on 09/06/2013 7:33:27 AM PDT by CodeJockey (Christian, Freeper, Tea Party Member, Bitter Clinger, Creepy White Cracker)
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To: Renfield

The real secret of vegetarianism is that the same number of animals die to put vegies on the table.

You don’t realize that birds are killed to clear the land, rabbit nests and burrowing animals are buried alive when the land is plowed, deer are shot to keep them out of bean patches, all so a vegetarian can fill his tummy with grass and smugly say,....”I’m better than you because I don’t eat meat!”


41 posted on 09/06/2013 7:39:24 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Mr. Lucky

Thanks! Always nice to learn something - even when that something isn’t all that appetizing in image! LOL


42 posted on 09/06/2013 7:44:21 AM PDT by MortMan (Disarming the sheep only emboldens the wolves.)
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To: PapaBear3625

****the “senseless slaughter” of the Plains buffalo by the white people.****

It makes for a good story but before the Indians had the HORSE they would drive whole herds of buffalo over cliffs, use what they could and leave the rest to rot.

Indians on a war raid would often kill a buffalo, eat part of the hump and leave the rest to rot.

The senseless slaughter by the White Man did take place, but in order to open the plains for farmers. Could you immagine what a herd of half a million buffalo would do to our farm land from Texas to Canada? Could we even have the modern cities on the high plains without the elimination of the buffalo? They would have to issue BUFFALO STAMPEDE ALERT on all the interstates and highways between Illinois and the Rockies.


43 posted on 09/06/2013 7:46:47 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Venturer

***People have trouble with killing a chicken***

We learned lots of ways to kill a chicken years ago from placing a bar on the neck, then pull on the legs, the head pops off, use your foot instead of a bar, or wring the neck. Grab the head and sling the chicken around like you were trying to start a crank on an old car.


44 posted on 09/06/2013 7:49:55 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Renfield

It recently came to my attention there is a process for creating artificial meat. GOOGLE it ... Artificial meat being created ...

Sounds bad. I do not like putting things in my body I do not know what the chemicals are in it. We already are getting hormones, and genetically altered changes in our chickens and beef, etc. Very bad. The producers are wanting to eliminate loss through time and condition, and increase profits. !!!

The idea of genetically altered seeds, animals, is One thing ... artificially created meat is another.

NO THANKS!!!


45 posted on 09/06/2013 8:21:49 AM PDT by geologist ("If you love me, keep my commands" .... John 14 :15)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Can you imagine that being done in today's world. At the time there was a rumor that the Buffalo were killed off to get rid of the Indians. They had to eat.
46 posted on 09/06/2013 8:31:42 AM PDT by ANGGAPO (Layte Gulf Beach Club)
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To: Alas Babylon!; Renfield

***We should find technological ways to keep some chicken’s crap off of the others but they are pretty stupid and unsanitary and will eat poo.****

I’ve never heard of chickens being raised where they could crap on each other. Here, they are floor raised in long houses of approximately 40,000 and there are rules on how many square feet of space they are allowed. They are NOT caged or crowded.

When they are the proper size, men come in and catch them, placing a certain number in each small cage, then they are hauled to the processing plant.


47 posted on 09/06/2013 1:54:25 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Renfield

Uncle Pete bought deer licenses in his sons name, he did the hunting on Iron MT, MI even got a bear one year. They lived off deer and bear that year.

We’ve passed pig trucks and chicken trucks and you are correct they smell so bad it’s worse than a dead skunk in the middle of the road.


48 posted on 09/07/2013 6:34:26 AM PDT by GailA (THOSE WHO DON'T KEEP PROMISES TO THE MILITARY, WON'T KEEP THEM TO U!)
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To: Venturer

” they don’t mind knocking off a human fetus that is tomorrow’s future genius.” you are using the liberals term, it’s a BABY! Conservatives should never repeat liberals terms.

Only in America it is legal to kill unborn children, and to not put to death the likes of charley manson.


49 posted on 09/07/2013 6:38:06 AM PDT by GailA (THOSE WHO DON'T KEEP PROMISES TO THE MILITARY, WON'T KEEP THEM TO U!)
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