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Enraged mom beats the crap out of kindergarten teacher
The Daily Caller ^ | 9/7/2013 | Eric Owens

Posted on 09/07/2013 11:57:54 AM PDT by UnwashedPeasant

The mother of a kindergarten boy Kansas City received a citation for criminal assault because, police say, she inflicted a vicious beatdown on the boy’s teacher.

The pummeling occurred on Thursday night at Truman Elementary School. Simone A. Baker, 24, allegedly entered the school and proceeded directly to the unidentified teacher’s classroom at about 6 p.m., reports The Kansas City Star.

She said, “You better not touch my kid again.” She punched the teacher, 49, upside the head five to 10 times. Next, narrates a police report, Baker jerked the teacher out of her chair by the hair. Then, for good measure, Baker smashed the teacher’s head against a filing cabinet—twice.

Baker’s next move was to run swiftly out of the classroom and out of the school building

There were no students in the classroom when the incident occurred.

On the way to the classroom, Baker ran right by the school principal, whom she had called just moments earlier as she was heading to the school. The principal gathered a posse and headed to the classroom, arriving just after the altercation ended.

Baker had a motive. Earlier in the day, her six-year-old son had come home with a scratch on his neck. He apparently told his mother that the teacher caused it when she had punished him for something during the school day.

Hickman Mills School District officials told local NBC affiliate KSHB that something did, in fact, happen between the kindergarten teacher and the student, but they provided no additional details.

On Friday, notes The Star, the boy told police and school officials that the teacher didn’t hurt him.

A roving KSHB reporter interviewed a couple of veritable moms on the street to get a bead on neighborhood opinion.

“If you’re not going to stand up for your child, who is?” asked one mom wearing a skull-design t-shirt.

Another mom in a Chiefs jersey disagreed.

“No words. Who does that?” she asked. “I mean, I love my kids to death but you got to take yourself out of the situation and act like an adult.”

A school district spokeswoman told The Star that the teacher got checked out at a hospital after the attack. She was released with little ado.

The spokeswoman added that the district intends to prosecute Baker to “the fullest extent of the law.”


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Education; Local News
KEYWORDS: assault; backtoschool; beatdown; earlychildhood; missouri; teachers
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Mama punched the government enforcer "upside the head" and "inflicted a vicious beatdown." Colorful language for a news report.

Comments under the article at The Daily Caller.

1 posted on 09/07/2013 11:57:54 AM PDT by UnwashedPeasant
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To: UnwashedPeasant

It is my prediction that with the full weight of Common Core, public school employees- called “teachers” are not going to feel comfortable in their own communities.

I don’t think secret service protection comes with the job, but I predict that they are going to want that.

Teachers being targets is one of the reasons I am against Common Core.

I think we are going to see more of these stories. It is not good for “education”.

I am glad I homeschool.


2 posted on 09/07/2013 12:01:10 PM PDT by Truth2012
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To: UnwashedPeasant
lol, I love the conclusion, as well: "She was released with little ado."
3 posted on 09/07/2013 12:01:30 PM PDT by cyn (Benghazi.)
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To: UnwashedPeasant
“No words. Who does that?” she asked. “I mean, I love my kids to death but
you got to take yourself out of the situation and act like an adult.”


4 posted on 09/07/2013 12:03:00 PM PDT by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: UnwashedPeasant
Colorful language for a news report.

It's a blog.

5 posted on 09/07/2013 12:03:36 PM PDT by TomServo
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To: UnwashedPeasant

Scary thing to ever live in a society where some kid can accuse you of anything, and some dipsh*t “parent” will take you down based on that alone.


6 posted on 09/07/2013 12:03:57 PM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: Truth2012
“If you’re not going to stand up for your child, who is?” asked one mom wearing a skull-design t-shirt.

Correction: “If you’re not going to stand up for your child, who is?” screamed one ignorant white woman in gang-related attire who identified herself as a "mother" after admitting to not having voted for President Obama.


7 posted on 09/07/2013 12:06:53 PM PDT by golux
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To: UnwashedPeasant
A roving KSHB reporter interviewed a couple of veritable moms on the street

Veritable moms? As opposed to the fake ones?

8 posted on 09/07/2013 12:08:58 PM PDT by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1)
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To: Truth2012
You're correct. Some of these kids up to 10 years old have parents in their 20s. A lot of that group from challenged neighborhoods haven't grown out of the thug stage themselves.

I'm not continuing my Adventures in Inner City Substituting this year. I was pushing my luck. I've said (privately) that a problem could easily occur parent-on-teacher or teacher-gone-crazy. JMHO

9 posted on 09/07/2013 12:10:02 PM PDT by grania
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To: UnwashedPeasant

re: “Mama punched the government enforcer. . .”

That’s what YOU call this child’s kindergarten teacher? A “government enforcer”?

I don’t know if this teacher deserved what she got, but your term for this teacher is meant to be de-humanizing.

I know there are hard feelings among many freepers here regarding public schools and public school teachers.

Public schools are built by your state and teachers are hired by your local school districts. School district trustees are voted on by you (at least they are in my state). Public school teachers are NOT federal employees - and, yes, I know the Dept of Education farms out millions and millions of tax dollars for programs that states may or may not participate in, but usually teacher pay is not from the federal government, but from the individual states the schools are located in.

My point is, local public school teachers work for you, the taxpayer. I respect and admire homeschool parents - you are doing a terrific job. My wife homeschooled some of our kids for awhile, too.

I don’t like federal government intrusion into our lives or when the federal government bullies the states into doing what they want either.

I think we also, as parents or citizens in the local community need to raise holy h**l with local schools when they or individuals within the public schools do stupid outrageous things. I would do the same thing with a private school where my kids attended as well.

Having said all that - NOT ALL PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS OR PUBLIC SCHOOL PRINCIPALS ARE TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE “GOVERNMENT” AUTOMOTRONS! They are people with feelings as well. Most teach because they love working with kids and WANT to do a good job. Don’t equate teachers unions agendas with all teachers.

I know this is probably just going to get me flamed, but I don’t give a rip. Dehumanizing people whether they are police, fire fighters, national guard, or school teachers ARE NOT SIMPLY “GOVERNMENT ENFORCERS” - for God’s sake try to see past the labels to the person.


10 posted on 09/07/2013 12:20:39 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: UnwashedPeasant

Whole lot of very worthless teachers deserve serious ass whoopins by parents imho


11 posted on 09/07/2013 12:22:43 PM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) ( Hey Rubio, eat pooh pal))
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To: grania

I started substituting last year towards the end of the school year in a relatively affluent district in Phoenix. I had to call security in a Biology class, I had three kids in the 6th grad say I threatened them (I had disciplined them by separating them. I was never asked my side of the story - just flat out banned from the school).

I had a 7th grader get in my face and threaten to kick my ass because I a toy he was playing with away from him during class and he wanted it back. I wouldn’t back down, so he ran out into the hall and kept screaming at me “good thing I’m in anger management, or I’d be beating your ass”, stuff like that. Luckily, the principal happened to hear a lot of what was going on and he was suspended for 10 days.

I think I’m sticking to the lower grades because they are a bit safer, maybe.


12 posted on 09/07/2013 12:23:30 PM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: stansblugrassgrl
Luckily, the principal happened to hear a lot of what was going on and he was suspended for 10 days.

So many times, poor managers take action after hearing only one side of a story. You were lucky that time.

13 posted on 09/07/2013 12:32:45 PM PDT by Real Cynic No More (Border Fence Obamacare!)
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To: VanDeKoik

I was unable to tell from the story whether this was a thug parent beating on a teacher or a teacher who actually deserved to be beat on.
There are plenty of both in this sad sad world now. sigh


14 posted on 09/07/2013 12:40:07 PM PDT by sheana
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To: Real Cynic No More

Lucky I didn’t get my ass whipped. I only subbed for like 5 weeks last year. I got a crash course! I learned real quick why people don’t want to sub.

This year, I’m driving the school bus for the school in the town where we live. I sub teach there, as well. I have more back up there and getting to know many of the kids, which helps when I’m in their class (most of the time).

As for driving the bus, it’s actually fun. I let the kids know right off the bat what I expect from them. Only one route I have trouble with - 6th, 7th and 8th graders.


15 posted on 09/07/2013 12:40:59 PM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: grania

I got out of that game a couple years ago. We’re in a nice quiet small conservative district but whew, some of those kids are out of control. Very freaky and very scary. You have to tip toe around them because they flip out over nothing. Most I could handle since I knew them from pre-school to HS and they liked me. However, the whole atmosphere of our schools have changed and not for the good. Then there are the demanding mamas. But the worst are the teachers. Far too many should never be allowed around children. Evil monsters.


16 posted on 09/07/2013 12:45:47 PM PDT by bgill (This reply was mined before it was posted.)
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To: UnwashedPeasant

Another thread on this same story:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3063876/posts


17 posted on 09/07/2013 12:50:03 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant
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To: sheana

The teacher didn’t deserve a beat down. There is due process. The mother tried and convicted the teacher with little or no information, from what I could glean from the article. Kids don’t always tell the truth.

When our daughter was little, went to a baby sitter, who had known her since birth. The baby sitter asked her what happened. Our daughter told her, “my mom cut me with a knife”. I, of course, had never done anything of the kind. The babysitter asked what really happened, and our daughter copped to mercilessly teasing the cat until it lashed out at her - which is exactly what had happened. No knives were involved.


18 posted on 09/07/2013 12:50:16 PM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: stansblugrassgrl
For all you substitute teachers out there.
19 posted on 09/07/2013 12:52:03 PM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: stansblugrassgrl

Well I have seen articles where I personally would have delivered a beat down WITHOUT due process.
This one? No clue.


20 posted on 09/07/2013 12:52:51 PM PDT by sheana
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To: sheana

From the article: On Friday, notes The Star, the boy told police and school officials that the teacher didn’t hurt him.

Mother should have found out more before going off the deep end.


21 posted on 09/07/2013 12:56:20 PM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: UnwashedPeasant

Keepin’ it real ?


22 posted on 09/07/2013 1:47:32 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: Joe Boucher

As a middle school principal, I can tell you that the story parents get from their children is not always the truth but many times parents take their child’s side of the story as gospel. Many times when a parent angrily contacts me about something that happened at school, after I investigate we’ll find that the true story is quite different than what the child told their parent. There also have been times that we may need to physically grab or restrain a student for their own or others safety. With that in mind, the teacher may or may not have done something wrong with the child but there is no justification for what the parent did.


23 posted on 09/07/2013 1:52:03 PM PDT by Baumer (Most areas of Washington are Republican)
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To: Baumer

You are correct, this parent deserves jail time for assault.
HOWEVER, how many “teachers” have o bidness being teachers?
How many kids are let down because ya can’t yank a bad teacher.


24 posted on 09/07/2013 2:31:17 PM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) ( Hey Rubio, eat pooh pal))
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To: Joe Boucher

And how many politically correct school districts insist on throwing the head bangers into the classrooms with the regular kids? Parent who love their children must make whatever sacrifice necessary to get their kids out of the government schools.


25 posted on 09/07/2013 2:39:26 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard

What, and bypass the indoctrination?


26 posted on 09/07/2013 2:42:11 PM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) ( Hey Rubio, eat pooh pal))
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To: UnwashedPeasant

If I came home from school with a missing arm my Mom would have taken the side of the teacher and spanked me in addition.


27 posted on 09/07/2013 2:46:01 PM PDT by Deb (If you wanna laugh everyday, follow Deepak Chopra on Twitter)
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To: VanDeKoik

Yeah, like Salem MA.


28 posted on 09/07/2013 3:41:43 PM PDT by Conservative4Ever (I'm going Galt)
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To: Disambiguator

Never saw that one before...very funny. :-)


29 posted on 09/07/2013 3:48:07 PM PDT by Conservative4Ever (I'm going Galt)
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To: Baumer; Joe Boucher
As a middle school principal....after I investigate Why would you conduct the investigation?

Are you a trained investigator?

Is it not a conflict of interest that someone within the same school perform an investigation?

Is this not like government, cops and DA's investigating themselves?

30 posted on 09/07/2013 3:49:42 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: UnwashedPeasant
I strongly suspect this is a black-on-white assault.

No white mom is going to assault a black teacher in this environment.

Similarly, no black mom is going to assault a black teacher, because she has no way of knowing if the black teacher has a thug boyfriend who would go find her.

Only white female teachers are safe to assault like that.

31 posted on 09/07/2013 3:59:50 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: dragnet2

re: “Why would you conduct the investigation? Are you a trained investigator? Is it not a conflict of interest that someone within the same school perform an investigation?
Is this not like government, cops and DA’s investigating themselves?”

So, the principal should not have tried to find out what happened? If you were the principal you don’t think you have a personal responsibility to find out whether or not an accusation against one of your employees has merit or not?

Who should do the investigating? The police? So, every time an altercation at a school happens we have to have an outside body investigate? How practical is that? If the accusation rises to the level of a crime, then yes, of course local authorities should be involved, but do you have any idea how many situations like the one described happen?


32 posted on 09/07/2013 5:26:47 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: rusty schucklefurd
Why would you conduct the investigation? Are you a trained investigator? Is it not a conflict of interest that someone within the same school perform an investigation? Is this not like government, cops and DA’s investigating themselves?”

So, the principal should not have tried to find out what happened?

And do what with it? Play investigator

Arrest the mother?

Fire the teacher?

If there was murder on campus, would the kiddies principal conduct the investigation?

33 posted on 09/07/2013 5:37:58 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: rusty schucklefurd
Who should do the investigating? The police? So, every time an altercation at a school happens we have to have an outside body investigate?

Well lemme ask ya rusty, if your reputation, your career, and or school record and or your criminal record were on the line, would ya want some wannabe biased kiddy principal playing investigator?

34 posted on 09/07/2013 5:42:48 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: stansblugrassgrl

the kidmsaid the teacher didn’t hurt him.


35 posted on 09/07/2013 6:17:55 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: UnwashedPeasant
I'm really torn on this one.

On the one hand, I remember when I was a kid. If I did something stupid, the teacher would discipline me, and when my parents found out what I did wrong, they would side with the teacher and discipline me a second time.

These days, the teachers aren't trusted with discipline, and for good reason for the most part. Teachers are now, mostly, mush-minded socialist who do not have the kid's best interest in mind, but the best interest of "society" (read: socialist sheep-dom).

But in the rare case where there is a teacher who does have the kid's best interest in mind, and the kid does something stupid that should be corrected, the teacher will be vilified by the parents, the press, and the other teachers if he tries to correct the bad behavior.

36 posted on 09/07/2013 8:08:33 PM PDT by Washi
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To: rusty schucklefurd; UnwashedPeasant

I respect and admire homeschool parents - you are doing a terrific job. My wife homeschooled some of our kids for awhile, too.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And.....”I love your show. I voted for Bush.” /s


37 posted on 09/07/2013 8:44:54 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: dragnet2

re: “Well lemme ask ya rusty, if your reputation, your career, and or school record and or your criminal record were on the line, would ya want some wannabe biased kiddy principal playing investigator?”

Look, dragnet2, the principal of a school is like the division supervisor of a department of a company/business. It’s their job to supervise their employees as well as supervise and enforce the rules of conduct of students and faculty, to observe/evaluate the strength and weaknesses of the teaching skills of each teacher and recommend help where needed.

When something happens on campus of a ordinary circumstance - i.e. fight between students, academic issues of students, behavior issues that disrupt the classroom on a regular basis (kids acting up on a regular basis, extreme disrespect, etc.).

Principals are required to be the initial investigators of all disciplinary issues on campus whether involving students or faculty or both. That’s part of the job and always has been.

They (as well as all school personnel) are required by law to report any suspected criminal activity whether its on the part of a student or a faculty member - especially on issues involving child abuse or suspected child abuse. School personnel are held liable by law, both state and federal law, for not reporting a child abuse situation or a suspected child abuse situation to police.

So, yes, dragnet2, whether we like it or not - it is the principal who initially starts asking questions of all involved in any given NORMAL school-related altercation (from a kid complaining another kid called him a name to a full on fist fight). Situations like someone bringing a weapon on campus, drugs, sexual abuse - the principal is usually the one who contacts the police department if the situation rises to that level.

The principal is the one whose job it is to make initial inquiries to find out how serious a particular event is.

If I’m understanding you correctly, it sounds like you think if a kid is sent to the office (i.e. the principal) for cussing out a teacher that the principal is supposed to call the cops for every little issue or accusation that comes up - without making initial inquiries as to what happened?? Is THAT what you are saying?

Someone has to make initial inquiries into an accusation by a student against a teacher - IF THAT ACCUSATION RISES TO THE LEVEL OF A CRIMINAL NATURE like child abuse or sexual abuse - then of course the police are called in to investigate - but even in that situation, the principal will be asked BY THE POLICE if he/she has looked into any of this to see if there is enough evidence to merit them coming in and making a formal investigation.

So, dragnet2, if you were a teacher, it is true, right now, that your reputation, your career, and school record are on the line by what a principal says about you - that’s the way it is and always has been. That’s why all teachers carry professional liability insurance in case they are accused of misconduct or criminal activity, or of academic misconduct. Lawyers have a field day with public schools.


38 posted on 09/07/2013 8:50:21 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: rusty schucklefurd; UnwashedPeasant
- NOT ALL PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS OR PUBLIC SCHOOL PRINCIPALS ARE TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE “GOVERNMENT” AUTOMOTRONS!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Guess what?

I think government schooling is soooooooo EVIL that I will NOT have a government teacher for a friend. I won't have an abortion worker or a concentration camp guard for a friend, either. They are too evil, too stupid, or too much of a useful idiot to be a friend.

One reason the K-12 schools exist is because armies of workers **willingly** agree to run them. The same is true for abortion centers, and concentration camps, too!

So..If the institution is horrible then the people who run them are horrible by default.

It is HORRIBLE that children are under police threat to attend prison-like schools that are GODLESS and the very definition of a single-payer and socialist-entitlement. It is HORRIBLE that taxpayers are under police threat to pay for it.

Government schooling is a First Amendment and freedom of conscience abomination and millions of **willing** workers make it happen day after day.

It is HORRIBLE to force a child into a godless school where they **will** learn to think and reason godlessly . They must just to cooperate in the godless classroom. How could it be otherwise? And **millions** of socialist-entitlement school workers agree to do this every school day. I am to praise them for this? You are kidding? I hope.

It is HORRIBLE that children are FORCED under police threat and court action to attend a socialist-entitlement and single-payer school where they risk learning to be comfortable with socialism. Hey! If the voting mob can give them tuition-free schooling, why not use the voting mob to get lots of “free” stuff? Teachers and principals WILLING **seek** to do this horrible act to children. This isn't wonderful. IT IS AN ABOMINATION!

39 posted on 09/07/2013 8:58:23 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: bgill

Far too many should never be allowed around children. Evil monsters.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And...As you posted, this was a “nice quiet small conservative district...”

wow!


40 posted on 09/07/2013 9:06:45 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: Baumer
there is no justification for what the parent did.

How about if you found out your child's teacher was teaching him mmmm mmmm mmmm Barack Hussaein Obama?

Just curious...lol

41 posted on 09/07/2013 9:11:39 PM PDT by SwankyC (Democrats and Republicans agree, govt coercion is OK if it fits your idea of whats OK)
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To: wintertime
It is HORRIBLE that children are under police threat to attend prison-like schools that are GODLESS and the very definition of a single-payer and socialist-entitlement. It is HORRIBLE that taxpayers are under police threat to pay for it.

Yep, and we pay property taxes through the nose for it. Makes me sick to my stomach, to be quite blunt about it.

42 posted on 09/07/2013 9:11:50 PM PDT by Marathoner (Sarah Palin is our Esther, for such a time as this)
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To: Marathoner
It exists because armies of evil, stupid, or Useful Idiot teachers **WILLINGLY** seek to do this EVIL to children and their neighbors.

I am sick of teachers being held up for adulation as if they were somehow resurrected Mother Teresas. The truth is that they WILLINGLY choose to run an EVIL institution that hurts children and forces taxpayers to pay for it.

43 posted on 09/07/2013 9:15:36 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

Government schools are inherently evil institutions, and forcing children to attend them is also evil. But some teachers are part of the anti-fascist Resistance.

Think of Schindler’s List.


44 posted on 09/07/2013 10:16:40 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant
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To: UnwashedPeasant
anti-fascist Resistance.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Implied is a comparison of the government's police enforced K-12 schooling to concentration camps. The comparison is appropriate.

Your comparison to Schindler is that he did not willingly seek, train for, and apply for his job as a slave driver of Jewish workers. He was pushed into it. Government teachers willing seek their positions of enablers of godless spiritual destruction.

Are their some “good” government K-12 teachers? Yes! But, I have never met one.

A “good” government teacher is warning every parent they meet to **remove** their children from the government schools. They are speaking out against school policies that harm children spiritually, physically, and emotionally. They refuse to join the union. Good government teachers are harassed by being given the worst school assignments. They are never promoted to positions of influence.

I have never met a “good” government teacher.

45 posted on 09/08/2013 6:18:59 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: rusty schucklefurd
Who should do the investigating? The police? So, every time an altercation at a school happens we have to have an outside body investigate?

Well lemme ask ya rusty, if your reputation, your career, and or school record and or your criminal record were on the line, would ya want some wannabe biased kiddy principal playing investigator?

Principals are required to be the initial investigators of all disciplinary issues on campus whether involving students or faculty or both.

You mean like when cops investigate other cops? Ya see a conflict here rusty?

Feel free to answer these questions:

Who trains the kiddy's principal to perform legitimate *unbaised* investigations and conduct face to face investigative interviews regarding incidents involving potential civil and or criminal issues?

Should investigations that affect individuals school records, police records, and or their employment be left to someone who is clearly biased, who personally knows those involved?

Is this not a glaring obvious conflict of interest rusty?

There is a big difference between reporting an event or incident and conducting a legitimate unbiased formal investigation. No?

Should employees within these government schools, the IRS, police departments, or any government offices for that matter, be allowed to conduct formal investigations? What about the punishment they themselves enact or fail to enact? Would this be considered unbiased, credible and legitimate?

After their investigation, would the punishment they decide or fail to implement not been considered biased or in conflict?

Do you not see a huge conflict of interest here?

School districts and their corrupt government unions waste billions of dollars every year and most produce uneducated students...Should those responsible for this also be allowed to conduct their own internal investigations?

In my eyes, govenrment school principals or any government entity conducting their own formal internal investigations should set off alarms and be enough to make most recoil.

46 posted on 09/08/2013 8:03:16 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

re: “Well lemme ask ya rusty, if your reputation, your career, and or school record and or your criminal record were on the line, would ya want some wannabe biased kiddy principal playing investigator?. . .You mean like when cops investigate other cops? Ya see a conflict here rusty?. . . Feel free to answer these questions:. . . Who trains the kiddy’s principal to perform legitimate *unbaised* investigations and conduct face to face investigative interviews regarding incidents involving potential civil and or criminal issues? . . . Should investigations that affect individuals school records, police records, and or their employment be left to someone who is clearly biased, who personally knows those involved? . . . Is this not a glaring obvious conflict of interest rusty? . . . There is a big difference between reporting an event or incident and conducting a legitimate unbiased formal investigation. No?”

Ok, dragnet2, I’ve answered all the above questions twice now.

PRINCIPALS DO NOT CONDUCT FORMAL INVESTIGATIONS!!! They conduct initial investigations with all parties involved. That’s their job!! That’s the job of ANY department or division head of a private company or government entity.

If, after an initial interview/investigation (whatever you want to call it), IF THERE IS SUFFICIENT question or evidence that the incident falls within a criminal catagory - THEN YES, YES, YES - the police are brought in to do a formal investigation.

If, after an initial interview/investigation a school event falls within the ordinary sphere of school discipline (chewing gum, talking back, general misbehavior, etc.), the school/parents/students are all involved to fix the problem.

With school personnel, if a teacher is accused of something that rises to the level of the criminal - THEN YES, YES, YES, the police are brought in. The teacher has the right to bring a lawyer, the principal has a right to give what information he/she knows - and, yes, the principal potentially has a lot of power over the teacher and their career.

Parents and teachers can call for outside investigations/lawyers to support their side of any story or event.

Can a principal’s initial interview/investigation be a conflict of interest? Of course! But, whether it is or not, the principal is required to make initial inquiries - why?? Because the principal is the responsible party for what happens on their campus - they are held liable by the public and the state for what happens on their campus.

So feel free to answer me, drag, if you were a dept. head, or a principal, and YOU are held liable for what occurs on the job - wouldn’t YOU want to have the right to interview those involved???

If a principal makes an initial investigation into some school incident, and does nothing, or tries to sweep it under the rug, the parents, the teacher, the students have every right and opportunity to go public, to bring in lawyers, to call the cops themselves.

But, as I’ve said at least ten times already - the principal MUST make an initial interview/investigation of all school incidents - unless of course we are talking about a Sandy Hook incident of a gunman killing kids on campus - but, even there - the principal is going to be on the hot seat for why it occurred.

This is not rocket science, drag.


47 posted on 09/08/2013 1:54:06 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: rusty schucklefurd
PRINCIPALS DO NOT CONDUCT FORMAL INVESTIGATIONS!!! They conduct initial investigations with all parties involved. the principal is required to make initial inquiries

Lets see...Suddenly you've gone from "Investigation" to "initial inquire"....rusty is getting it.

For the record I agree, "initial inquire" is all they should do. They should never ever conduct an "investigation".

An investigation is the systematic detailed search or examination in order to discover facts. No?

In fact government school teachers and their administrators are not even trained to conduct investigative interviews. No?

1. Government school teachers and administrators are not trained investigators, nor a are they trained to be investigators.

2. Government entities, schools, police departments, the IRS, the Feds etc, should never be allowed investigate themselves or conduct internal investigations due to obvious biases and conflicts of interest. No?

In fact, this is a why there is an inordinate amount of corruption in government public schools, police departments, the IRS, the federal government and in fact government at ALL levels. This is directly due to the fact there is no real independent oversight of these corrupt government institutions. They just do what they please.

Do you not understand this rusty?

48 posted on 09/09/2013 9:27:05 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

re: “For the record I agree, “initial inquire” is all they should do. They should never ever conduct an “investigation”.

Dragnet, call it an “initial inquiry”, or an “initial investigation” - they are part of an “investigation”.

What is the significant difference between an “initial inquiry/initial investigation” and an “investigation”, dragnet?? Aren’t they all part of the investigation process?

Principals do investigations up to a point. If, in the process of their interviews/investigation/inquiry they find that there is evidence that this may rise to the level of a criminal matter, they MUST notify the police, who then take over the investigation that has already been started.

You seem to think a principal or a teacher is incapable of asking questions when looking into a situation or event that happened at school.

What do the police do when they “investigate” something, dragnet? Don’t they ask questions?? Don’t they interview everyone involved?

You seem to be saying that every event that happens at school that might involve discipline of a student or a teacher must involve the police department. From chewing gum to a schoolyard fight, you want the cops to investigate??

No one ever said that the investigations that principals do have the same force of law that the police have. Which isn’t a problem because the vast majority of disciplinary incidents that occur are not of a criminal nature.

Now, it is true that a principal is the supervisor of every faculty member, and what they put in a report about a teacher CAN indeed severely hurt that teacher’s career. The teacher, if he/she chooses, can get their own legal defense.

“An investigation is the systematic detailed search or examination in order to discover facts. No? In fact government school teachers and their administrators are not even trained to conduct investigative interviews. No?”

I agree, in general, with your definition of an “investigation”, but I disagree with you about teachers/administrators not being capable of conducting investigative interviews. Were your parents trained investigators, dragnet? Did they ever discover something you did through their own “investigation”? This is not forensic science, dragnet. If a kid punches another kid. You talk to everyone involved, witnesses, etc. This stuff happens nearly every week - are you seriously saying only cops can investigate this? A kid trashes up the boys bathroom - how do you find out who did this? You ask questions, you find out what time the kid was gone from the classroom, you discover all the evidence you can, then go form there.

Were you ever in school, dragnet? Do you have kids, dragnet? Have you ever had to look into what they were doing? It’s not that difficult.

“1. Government school teachers and administrators are not trained investigators, nor a are they trained to be investigators.”

Just curious, dragnet, when you say, “government school teachers”, which government are you talking about? The federal government, or your local school district? The federal government or the state you reside in? Public school teachers are not employed by the federal government, they work for your state government and local school district. They are not from Washington D.C.

To answer your question about being “trained investigators” - what are you talking about? We’re not talking about crime scenes here. We’re talking about crap that happens at school everyday. If a weapon or real assault takes place, then yes, as I’ve already answered 20 times now, the police are brought in.

As to a principal supervising a teacher - both are trained in their profession. A principal has had years of experience in the classroom, then must go through two or three years of internship as an “assistant principal” (it depends on the state). The principals are trained in how to evaluate teachers in their profession. Each state has an evaluation process, and yes, principals are trained in evaluating teachers under their supervision.

Let me ask you a question. If principals or teachers are unqualified to do preliminary investigations of everyday school incidences, then who do you suggest DOES have that authority?? I’m speaking of “investigating” a schoolyard scuffle, chewing gum under the table, disruptions within the classroom, etc. Are you seriously suggesting that cops do this?? I can tell you right now that they would laugh in your face. You can barely get them to investigate burglaries let alone a schoolyard brawl.

So, if the cops won’t investigate chewing gun incidences, who do you suggest should?


49 posted on 09/09/2013 2:16:19 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: rusty schucklefurd

OK rusty, lets continue to allow the unionized government public schools, their agents and other government agencies to conduct their own investigations.

Lets continue to allow more sophisticated govenrment agencies such as the IRS, FBI, local police departments, NSA and others to perform and conduct their own internal investigation...It’s all worked out so well!

We have nothing to worry about. Eric Holder and many others in government completely agrees with ya Mr. rusty!

We all know unionized government public schools and other government agencies are so honorable, credible and corruption free.

There is no bias, or conflict of interest when they conduct their own investigations!

Business as usual....Very slick rusty!


50 posted on 09/09/2013 5:33:38 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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