Skip to comments.Christians gather in Kan. to discuss homosexuality
Posted on 09/19/2013 9:40:10 PM PDT by Olog-hai
A Kansas man whose online lecture about the Bible and same-sex relationships gained considerable attention has gathered about 50 Christians from around the country to delve into his belief that the Scriptures do not condemn homosexuality as a sexual orientation.
Matthew Vines, of Wichita, grew up attending a conservative evangelical Presbyterian church in the city and relies heavily on intensive study of the Bible for his presentations. He said liberal and moderate Christian churches have adopted more gay-friendly stances, but conservative churches remain steadfast in their opposition to homosexuality.
The 23-year-old Vines wants to bring change with his message that the Bible doesnt actually say same-sex orientation is a sin or condemn loving gay relationships.
(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...
Dollar to a donut the Church here is aligned with the One Church and/or the World Council of Churches?
So a college aged guy who convinces a few dozen others that homosexual behavior is biblical is an AP news story? Really?
It is nothing but futile to try to justify any other arrangement.
To claim any other arrangement is not an aberration and harmful to familial security and values is foolishly blind or evil.
What’s to discuss?
First verse in Bible against homosexuality:
Then the Lord said, The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me.
Last verse in Bible against homosexuality, spoken by Jesus:
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.”
Revelation 22:14-15 (”dogs” is the Jewish term for homosexuals)
And, of course, many in between.
Why do nutjobs like this get media attention but 250,000 people in DC at a March for Life or biker rally gets none?
The Bible does not say “orientation” is a sin?
The activity is a sin though, right?
I would say that Matthew 5:28 can be expanded to indicate one’s so-called “orientation”.
The Greek word translated “the sexually immoral” in the NIV is “pornos”, which literally means a male prostitute.
Well, I suppose that depends on what one means by “orientation”. If that is what the person desires, then I would think that would be evidence of sin. Not for us to say, but rather for us to proclaim the truth of God’s Word and the good news of the Gospel.
God is the ultimate judge, of course, of whom is saved.
seriously, what the hell is there to discuss?
The flesh has enmity with the spirit....
We are tempted thru the desires of our flesh as Paul stated. So if one successfully resists temptation, though he had desire than one has not sinned. Paul had his “thorn in the flesh” that Christ had not taken away from him, instead receiving the answer of “My grace is sufficient for thee”.
If simply having desire(whether for illicit sex, money, power, ungodly fame, ect) was evidence of sin, then all Christians everywhere are in terrible trouble!
However, Jesus did say that if one looked upon a woman with lust, then he has already committed adultery in his heart, so maybe this would also include homosexuals lusting after others, but not giving in to the temptation. Having said that, I seriously doubt that any of them DON’T give into the temptation.
King James Bible
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Remember the Jimmy Carter Playboy interview where he admitted he committed adultery in his heart?
Scriptures do not condemn homosexuality as a sexual orientation, but if it's only in a pervert's inclinations and not in his actions, we would never have to hear about it and there would be no reason for discussion. Scripture unambiguously condemns homosexual acts. There is no more point discussing it than there is with adultery. The Creator of the universe says "no". We have the free will to choose whether we follow God or Satan.
"Pornos," the masculine noun, used 10x in the NT.
Several feminine nouns are used 37x.
There is no place in the NT where homosexuality is classified as uniquely sinful. In fact, it is usually listed right in there with such common sins as lying.
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurersand for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
So while the liberal notion that it is not a sin per the Bible, so is the Christian Right's claim that it is The Sin Above All Other Sins. There is very little distinction drawn between homosexual immorality and heterosexual immorality.
But since heterosexual immorality is so widely practiced and accepted, or at least ignored, in today's churches, nobody wants to talk about that. There is something intensely hypocritical about fiercely denouncing a sin one is not tempted to engage in, while practicing or ignoring another sin treated very similarly by the NT.
Yeah if in our heads we look at a woman and play out a lust scenario in our heads. We can learn over time to “step ahead” of where desire may lead us and “quench” the thoughts. Proverbs says to “guard the heart for out of it flow the issues of life.” The Bible says the “heart is desperately wicked and who can know it”.
My wise old grandma, when I asked her about what to do about “bad thoughts” said...”bats may fly thru your belfry but you don’t have to let them build a nest!”
Actually, I would RATHER discuss the fact that ALL Dogs go to Heaven, BECAUSE it would’nt be HEAVEN without them!!
Even the THOUGHT is sin!!
“But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed ADULTERY with her in his heart.