Posted on 02/24/2014 7:57:19 AM PST by BenLurkin
But you can’t ‘nip it in the bud’ when the virus you’re vaccinating against has tens, dozens or even hundreds of different strains circulating in the wild type.
It’s why Prevnar started as Prevnar 7 then Prevnar 13 and now moving towards Prevnar 30 something.
And the kids you saved by vaccinating against the first strain you used die when they contract the second strain they’re NOT immune against.
And a lot of other people besides.
How many people’s lives were in danger when penicillin stopped working. Thank God for 2nd gen antibiotics.
Only with vaccines, there ARE no 2nd generation treatments if the first gen fail. And we’d have to rely on the CDC to tell us the truth about it and then do something about it. Given their agenda seems to be concerned more with gun control and other ‘non disease’ issues I think I have a right to be concerned with this strategy.
The best that happens with that strategy is everyone gets a booster for everything every year or two. I’ll tell you right now, you just THINK our upcoming version of the NHS is expensive now. Wait for that to become commonplace. vaxing 100m out of 300m people every year (assuming a booster was good for 3 years) for mmr, dtap, hepb, and everything else on the current schedule would cost easily $500 per person. $500 X 100m == $50B. Every year. Just for that one program. And you’re still chasing moving targets with every single one of those vaxs.
And then there’s this line of research:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24238833
Penicillin. How many lives have been saved using it? It is foolish to not use it now because it might be ineffective in the future.
And the efficacy of antibiotics might have more to do with people not taking it properly (not finishing the prescription). Not using the drug itself.
You can’t vaccinate against every known mutant of a particular disease unless you include every single (relevant) mutant in your vaccine.
They evolve just like we do.
I’ve seen mutagenesis in genomic data. HIV is scarily efficient with the spaghetti against the wall technique.
With antibiotics it works both ways. Every colony of bacteria has a genomic distribution of mutants within it. Every single time they multiply there’s a shot at ‘genetic variance’ of some sort. Invariably there will be some that are just not susceptible to your particular antibiotic. USUALLY there’s a reason that particular version isn’t the dominant one. Maybe the dominant one suppresses it to some extent by greater efficiency in reproducing. Maybe the dominant one secretes something that the suppressed one does not that enables it to be more successful. Whatever. Once you treat that colony with antibiotics you remove the dominant (antibiotic susceptible) strain from contention. Now, the strain that was immune to your antibiotics is ‘free like the wind’ to itself mutate into forms that will be more successful. Some of which maintain that particular antibiotic resistance. This still happens even IF you take the whole dose of antibiotics.
But it gets better. Bacteria love to chat and gossip. That antibiotic resistance portion can be ‘chatted’ amongst various other bacteria strains. And now they all ‘know the secret’.
This is why putting antibiotics into animal feed is a bad idea for a long term strategy. Unless you like those particular antibiotic resistant mutants. And have devoted a lot of research to new and improved antibiotics. We have not however devoted this research. We may alter that in the future though, when the last antibiotics stop working.
The ‘childhood diseases’ aren’t quite as genomically constrained as the pandemic ones. For a variety of reasons. One of which being that the pandemics tend to ‘burn out’ because they ARE so virulent. They just aren’t around long enough in the host to do many generations of mutation before the host dies.
The extreme genetic variability and change is why the flu vaccine needs to be repeated yearly. And why HIV vaccine hasn’t happened yet.
The issue is the ‘if you even miss ONE strain’ it can mutate and become problematic. Every generation will be subtly genomically different than the previous. Evolution happens. And when you play evolutionary games vs. something that has multiple generations per day you will lose. Every. Single. Time.
The issue with people not taking the whole dose is only ONE of several issues with antibiotic overuse.
You will spend ever increasing money on a program that will fail. Horribly. You will either run out of money ($50B/year is conservative) or create something you simply can’t make a vaccine for in time to prevent 1918 fast enough. Or both.
And some diseases have evolved to benefit us. Even if they seem problematic up front:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20559706
Synopsis. Having mumps prior to pubery is PROTECTIVE against ovarian cancer in women. The vaccine does NOT offer this protection.
And you never did address the ASIA issue. Increasing evidence that overexposure to aluminum adjuvants leads to autoimmune diseases. Which have skyrocketed over the past 20 or so years.
Vaccines are useful to control a particular disease only IF you have a means to prevent that disease from ‘escaping’ your vaccination strategy. We do not at this point.
Ever heard of tea tree oil? Colloidal silver? Manuka honey? Garlic? Apple Cider Vinegar? They are all nature’s antibiotics that you don’t have to worry about becoming ineffective.
Pertussis vaccination has been VERY effective at eliminating the strain that’s in the vaccine.
It has NOT eliminated all the pertussis strains however.
My generation was ‘saved’ from a version of pertussis. Now we are susceptible to a strain with TEN TIMES the mortality and morbidity of the one we would have gotten in childhood.
No vaccine covers this new strain.
It’s the wild wild west all over again with the new version.
Try for a strain that’s got 100X the mortality and morbidity of the old one?
You eliminate the ‘mild’ one and set yourself up for the really really bad one.
Acquiring Mumps naturally while males are still young is also protective against the likelihood of becoming infertile due to acquiring it when older. It also provides life-long immunity to acquire it naturally when young.
Or is it Measles? lol It’s one of the two.
I can certainly see vaccinating kids before puberty if they don’t have antibodies to mumps. Getting it past puberty is problematic.
If I knew of a mumps party I could take my daughters to I’d be there. Ovarian cancer is really scary. Mumps at their age is a couple days of low fever, swollen glands and bitchy kids. Ovarian cancer kills way more than mumps ever did.
Anyway....
So, condensing it down; what you are saying is:
Let people suffer and die so that people won't suffer and die. Seems like a cyclical argument.
Me? I'd prefer to bet on what I immediately know, that a treatment is effective now, and deal with the consequences of that decision later.
BTW, my wife thanks you for the link. We are going to check with our sons doc. Of course, it is moot by now.
Let me repeat. But if you weren’t given the pertussis vac as you suggest, we might not be having discussion right now. Right?
Same thing with polio, etc.
If you think they are not as effective as man-made antibiotics, then you have no personal experience with them. I do. Perhaps you’ve read about the items I listed, but for you to say that, that means that you’ve never used them and experienced it personally. I’ve used them on myself, my daughters, and my grandson successfully for infections, Strep Throat, among other things.
People STILL die from diseases that they are vaccinated against. Life is not without risk, as you very well know. Nothing is 100%.
Thankfully, he was not blinded or crippled by it.
On the other hand, my dad had both a blood staph AND strep infection. He was on IV antibiotics for a month and pulled through. No doubt he would have passed on if it were not for the antibiotics. My dad is alive because of antibiotics. To deny him would have been a death sentence.
Also, my great grandfather died from an infection that, if it were available, was easily treatable with antibiotics. He cut his toe.
Speaking of herbal treatments, if found that neem tea has been effective at helping me with my digestive issues. Are you familiar with it?
I’ve used a few natural remedies, from cranberry and acidophilus, ginger, Vit D3, elderberry, colloidal silver, raw honey, cayenne pepper, to lavender oil. I haven’t used brewed tea for anything. I hate tea. If my life or health depended on it, I’d learn to drink it though.
28 years ago went my wife went permanent quadriplegic in about a couple hours time. In the ER one of the questions the Neurologist asked was about any recent vaccines. He was looking at the possibility of Guillain–Barré Syndrome. The fact she maintained full respiratory function ruled that out. There is validity in vaccine concerns.
What could be going on here could be Transverse Myelitis which is similar with Polio and can be from the Polio virus or other virus that would cause the persons own immune system to attack the Mylien Nerve Sheaves. That was my wife diagnoses and possible Polio Relapse Syndrome. The flu shots back in the early to mid 1980's did put a considerable number of person in wheelchairs. But in her caseshe had not taken that shot and yes she is understandably reluctant to take a flu shot now.
All shots have risk. For example I take Allergy shots. I take three shots every three weeks and six every six weeks. After taking the shots I have to sit in the waiting room 20 minutes.
Whether is virus vaccines or allergy shots it is dealing with the autoimmune system. To say there is no risk is foolish. Risk of adverse issues vs risk of not taking shot should be weighed on individual basis.
Could be Asians as well, there are plenty of legal and illegals in California as well.
“To say there is no risk is foolish.”
I didn’t say there was no risk. What happened to your wife is tragic. But it is equally tragic when children die or are damaged from measles or rubella or mumps, or any number of diseases that can easily be vaccinated against.
The risk of adverse effect is so remote compared to the risk of getting the disease one is vaccinated against that it’s foolish to say otherwise.
This doesn’t make your wife recover or help you help her deal with it.
There can be no arguing with the health benefit and life-extending benefit of vaccines - there are plenty that will and do argue - based on a very small chance of adverse reaction, or some baseless belief in autism being caused.
It’s not even close to compare outcomes for vaccinate vs. don’t vaccinate populations.
Oddly enough the last two years we've dealt with a vaccine issue with my wifes dog. We'd get the dog all the shots at once and within a week the dog would break out in a bad rash and be sick. The first time it happened we figured well it was something else. The second time it happened again within a week of the shots we informed our Vet that the shots we're going to be spread out next time and maybe not do one or two we suspect. Oh and he still doesn't think the shots caused it. This years shots are due in June. If he insist on the All In One vaccine route again we'll fire him.
The vaccine issues in humans didn't seem to start showing up until the combined vaccines showed up and the big huge hurry to pump in as many shots as possible in a short period of time. I'm not anti vaccine but darn it they need to stop and think things through a little bit more especially when tinkering with kids autoimmune system. SLOW DOWN IOW.
Snarky much?
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