Texas GOP advances ‘reparative therapy’ for gays

Associated Press ^ | Jun 6, 2014 2:51 AM EDT | Paul J. Weber and Will Weissert

[Olog-hai]

The word “Lesbian” has been so abused that the people of the island of Lesbos (where the infamous poet Sappho was from, and where the word was derived) have taken to calling themselves “Lesvonians”.

[Olog-hai]

Interesting choice of words, “unacceptability” and “quackery”, especially the first one.

[Olog-hai]

Jesus wasn’t trying to win over the recalcitrant scribes and Pharisees either. Rebels are rebels.

[WashingtonSource]

Many homosexuals are unhappy about same-sex attraction and many escape the bondage to deliverance with or without therapy. Probably more would benefit from therapy. But the left opposes this because the more gay people suffering from depression because of their s/s attractions and hating the world, the more fellow leftists are created and this enables their leftist tyrannical agenda. This is why they push s/s marriage and then become jack-booted thugs forcing any who disagree to suffer grave consequences. See Mozilla and the Colorado baker.

[william clark]

Jesus wasn’t trying to win over the recalcitrant scribes and Pharisees either. Rebels are rebels.

So we shouldn't try to have any dialogue with sinners and convince them of their need to repent until they've repented. Got it.

[Olog-hai]

No, that’s not it either. Always preach—but people ultimately have to decide for themselves (the case in a message of repentance), since this is not a question of innate tendencies.

[martiangohome]

My wife made me watch Will and Grace. I got straighter.

[william clark]

We seem to be circling toward a mutual understanding. Yes, we’re to preach (although I prefer conversations to monologues), but we should preach the gospel, preach scripture, and resist the temptation to embellish it with our own opinions, which is what the notion of homosexuality (the inner compulsion, not the outer behavior) being a conscious choice is. It’s an opinion. There’s decades worth of research tying environmental (or traumatic) factors to homosexual inclinations; and there’s not a single scripture that either affirms or contradicts that conclusion.

It’s simply a false choice to say that the homosexual compulsion has to either be inborn or else a conscious choice. There’s nothing God-denying in claiming the third, best evidenced alternative, that the compulsion is something deeply rooted that comes about based on things someone experiences very early in life. Temptation can lead to sin, but temptation itself is not the sin, and I don’t have God’s eyes to peer into someone’s heart and tell them that they chose to be tempted.

As I said before, when a person recognizes that compulsion, THEN they have to make a choice as to what to do about it; either choosing to sin by embracing and affirming the compulsion, or choosing to combat it. There’s simply no need for Christians to adopt a posture that needlessly puts up a wall between us and someone we’d like to bring to Christ by starting off by our telling them that they chose to feel that way in the first place. For one thing, that mis-prioritizes the situation, giving the path behind more significance than the path ahead. And making such pronouncements publicly will almost certainly prevent such a Christian from being approached by anyone who might be looking for some Christian compassion as the first step toward making a change. Sadly, it might dissuade them from approaching ANY Christian.

[stevie_d_64]

You too huh???

I got my revenge on that by making her watch FoxNews...And the Military channel...

Every time she complained or got up to go do something...I would shush her, and hit the record button so she would not miss a riveting minute!!!

Needless to say, I had to have my lawyers number on speed dial...;-)

[stevie_d_64]

Sounds Greek to me...;-)

[Mike Darancette]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/06/04/the-science-of-sexuality-how-our-genes-make-us-gay-or-straight/

Could this change the game.

[SoConPubbie]

Could this change the game.

Sorry, there is a much higher and ultimate authority in play here, God.

Any study can be fudged, and most have, if not all, where finding an excuse for Homosexuality is concerned.

Just remember, according to "Science", Global Warming, caused by Man, is settled science.

[SoConPubbie]

So we shouldn't try to have any dialogue with sinners and convince them of their need to repent until they've repented. Got it.

According to the scriptures, there is no need to "understand" their sin or their situation. We are simply to preach the truth, and point the way to Christ, the solution to the sins that any sinner is caught up in.

Mathew 10: 12-14

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

[SoConPubbie]

It’s simply a false choice to say that the homosexual compulsion has to either be inborn or else a conscious choice. There’s nothing God-denying in claiming the third, best evidenced alternative, that the compulsion is something deeply rooted that comes about based on things someone experiences very early in life. Temptation can lead to sin, but temptation itself is not the sin, and I don’t have God’s eyes to peer into someone’s heart and tell them that they chose to be tempted.

Except that the Old Testament calls this particular sin an Abomination and the Apostle Paul pointedly claims that this abomination is given to those who refuse to honor God as God and serve their own selfish desires as God.

There is no scripture in the Bible that gives the excuse that the sin of Homosexuality is inborn, and the only scripture that states where the scripture comes from declares the exact opposite, that it is given to those who refuse to serve God but instead server their own desires.

[SoConPubbie]

My primary point is that when you simply say “Homosexuality is a choice,” you may well be just referring to the behavior, but the homosexual hears you telling him that he has consciously chosen to feel that way, which is almost never the case. Consequently, he is unlikely to want to listen to you share the gospel with him, which he so desperately needs to hear.

So while I’d be right there with you denying that they were “born that way,” I regard it as the unbiblical form of judgment to tell them that they have consciously chosen the inner confusion and torment that is homosexuality. They may choose to sin as their means of responding to it, but we don’t make a remedy attractive when we first tell someone that their symptoms are imaginary.

Please re-read Romans 1: 18-to the end of the chapter.

The Apostle Paul makes it quite clear that this sin, and therefore the desire is GIVEN to those who refuse to serve God as God but instead, serve their own selfish desires instead.

The Homosexual may not have chosen to feel that way, but it is his/her actions that have brought these desires on their own head because they rebelled against God.

Whether or not the homosexual is likely or unlikely to listen to the gospel from me or anyone else is that person's decision.

The truth is still the truth and ONLY the truth will truly set a man or woman free, not the gospel watered down by psychology because we are afraid of offending the sinner.

There is no "unbiblical form of judgement" either in telling them that they are responsible for their sin, otherwise, the Apostle Paul was not speaking from the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but was instead, in sin and Romans Chapter 1 is untrue.

Be wary of getting caught in the trap of fearing being offensive to the detriment of those you are trying to save, and quite possibly yourself.

[SoConPubbie]

Please do not get me wrong, I am not saying we do not empathize with those that have suffered child abuse, that being said, whether or not that was part of the environment that a homosexual was raised in, the actions and choices that bring homosexuality into play are solely the responsibility of the sinner, no none else.

There is no quarter given in the bible to excuse sin because of the environment someone is raised in, none.

There is only the Gospel pointing to Christ and his sacrifice as the only way to forgiveness and victory over sin.

Everything else is simply a waste of time.

[EveningStar]

The AP should suffer the same fate as Korah.

If you think the AP is making this up, you're mistaken. This is being reported by other media outlets including some on the right.

[william clark]

The Apostle Paul makes it quite clear that this sin, and therefore the desire is GIVEN to those who refuse to serve God as God but instead, serve their own selfish desires instead.

Wow, could you have more misquoted Paul? Read it again. It does not say that God gave them the desire, it says that He gave them OVER to it, meaning that it pre-existed; just as God giving over the rebellious Israelites to their enemies didn't mean that God created said enemies just for that occasion. He removed His protection, and if a person feeling homosexual desires chooses to act upon those desires rather than combat them, then God may (not necessarily in every case) just leave them to it and not bother steering them to a place where their hearts will change.

But do you see what you've done with your misreading of Romans 1:24? You've actually sided with the homosexuals who say that God made them that way. That also means that you can't very well still make the argument that such desire is a choice. You can't have it both ways. Either they chose or God imposed it.

You seem to think that understanding the origins of the desire is somehow contradicting God. No more than understanding the mechanics of how a seed becomes a mighty oak negates the miracle of the design or God's part in the creation.

This is going to be my last post on the subject, because it's simply eating too much otherwise productive time. I'll just end by saying that if you retreat back to the "homosexual desire" is a choice position, then in order to be consistent, you must believe that a needy man who sins by stealing food and clothing made the conscious choice to be hungry and cold in the first place. Good luck with that.

[william clark]

Actually, although I said that my prior post would be my last, I need to make one important clarification, then I'll be done.

There is no quarter given in the bible to excuse sin because of the environment someone is raised in, none.

I've not once suggested that sin be excused. Not once. Neither do I disagree with the remedy you articulate. We differ on where the sin occurs, and my position is that when you state that homosexual desire (that can lead to the sinful behavior) is itself a conscious choice, you are (with rare exceptions) making a demonstrably untrue statement that accomplishes nothing beyond making you appear to be self-righteous and wholly lacking in the compassion that scripture dictates we have for all men, including our enemies.

If you want to hear the applause of men for making such a pronouncement, fine. But if you have any hope of actually reaching someone with the message of rebirth who desperately needs to hear that they can be liberated from such feelings, you cannot begin by calling them liars, telling them that they consciously chose something that actually developed in them slowly over time without their understanding of it.