Did a Russian soldier's trigger finger blow MH17 out of the sky. US says separatists would struggle

Daily Mail UK ^ | 23:34 EST, 18 July 2014 | Associated Press (AP)

[Zhang Fei]

U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power told an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Friday that the United States cannot rule out that Russia helped in the launch of the surface-to-air missile that shot down a Malaysia Airlines jet over eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board.

Power said the U.S. believes the plane was likely downed by an SA-11 missile fired from an area in eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian separatists. She said Russia has provided SA-11s and other heavy weapons to the separatists.

Britain's U.N. Ambassador Mark Lyall Grant, who called the emergency meeting, was more emphatic on assessing blame for the crash. And Ms Power it is likely that Russian military personnel were at the controls of the missile battery that downed the airliner.

New intelligence seen by the New York Times, suggest a surface to air missile on Monday shot down a Ukranian military plane from inside Russia’s borders – just days before MH17 was blown apart. It is possible that the same battery was then moved into Ukraine, where it shot down the Malaysian airlines jet liner.

[kabar]

It all boils down to the individual and who gives the orders. They could have been tracking the plane and someone mistakenly pulled the trigger. I see no real advantage for the Russians or their surrogates to shoot down a civilian airliner.

The ML flight was a code share with KLM hence the substantial majority of passengers being Dutch, a NATO ally.

[Bulwyf]

I left the forces in 2009. Right before I left ( I don’t know how) but we let a former spetnaz into the Canadian airforce. He lasted 6 weeks before they deemed him unfit for service, couldn’t learn the basics. His english was good, but just lacked overall ability.

The bottom line is, lots of countries know who did this, there’s no point in trying to cover it up. Considering where you’re from, I have to go with the motion that whatever you say is heavily biased.

[AbolishCSEU]

Who is to say Obozo's regime didn't orchestrate this to knock the border issue off the front, errr 14th page of the NYT? You know, "more flexibility" after his re-election?

Much like Clintoon bombed the aspirin factory to divert attention away from blue dress gate.

[wetphoenix]

How had you check his background? Or he has claimed to be ‘spetsnaz’ and voila? BTW, spetsnaz is a very common term over there. Every unit has it’s ‘spetsnaz’ in Russia and it is not limited to the military.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Puny, I never posted one thing in defense of Putin.

Yet your face is pretty smeared with Putin's feces, err, I mean, propaganda, from the very beginning, isn't it?

Dforest 5/1/2014

"What is stated is exactly what has happened. Putin may have had future designs on Crimea and Ukraine, but he didn’t act until the US/EU began their activist meddling."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3150778/posts?q=1&;page=1

Dforest 3/16/2014

"In Honduras in 2009, Obama backed the Marxists. In Egypt he backed the Muslim Brotherhood. In Libya he backed Al Qaeda and in Syria he backed the “rebels” aka Al Qaeda, in Ukraine he backs Nazi types.

Yessir, the US is a really moral nation since Obama. He wants freedom everywhere but in the US. LOL"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3133624/posts

Anybody notice the pattern in Russkie propaganda? The wife made me beat her and she is a Nazi slut anyway.

[duckln]

I don't understand what your point is, except to assign motives to groups in Russia that are not in charge.

What I do know is that 80%+ Russians support Putin and Putin is leading their democracy well . Signing on for Flat Tax, banding gay propaganda, cleaning up public lewd language, promotes family, against gay marriage, speaking up for Christians worldwide ...it goes on and on.

On top of all that he has to defend his country against a fascist regime in Kiev that yearly parades and honors WW2 SS storm troopers.

While we have a country, run by Shumers, telling Americans that if you don't pass out abortion pills, you can't do business in the US.

Question, who's on the right track?

[dforest]

Anyone notice that you are hear to cause trouble? I don’t think anyone around here has all the facts about world politics.

But boy, you sure think you do. Who the hell are you anyway? I stand by everything I have said on this site. An unhinged close minded one issue poster like you can go to hell.

[floriduh voter]

The plane was ordered down to 2000 feet before it was shot down. Who gave that order? The tower? UK military were manning the tower when the plane came down. I'm not going to rule out sleight of hand by anyone. It looks like a circular firing squad to me with all innocent people in the middle.

Somebody wants ww3 and it's not me.

[floriduh voter]

Yes, BobL. Jumping to conclusions or part of Barry’s plan to get us involved with the UN, NATO and the EU. If Barry wants Ukraine to have a broader war, he’ll give UK nukes. That would be a hot mess. Ukraine current leadership - unknown quantity. Putin - known quantity.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

What I do know is that 80%+ Russians support Putin and Putin is leading their democracy well .

Well then you know nothing. Russian democracy consists of 24/7 state propaganda followed up with sham elections where all of Putin's more worthy opponents are charged with various crimes anyway.

Here's an article for you to chew on:

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/modern-day-russian-dupes/

"Rather than embrace Christianity, the evidence shows Russia has embraced the Russian Orthodox Church, always a tool of Soviet intelligence. As we noted in an AIM Report back in 1984, John Barron’s authoritative book, KGB, said that the KGB’s Directorate 5 is assigned to “clandestinely control religion in the Soviet Union” and to “insure that the Russian Orthodox Church and all other churches serve as instruments of Soviet policy.” Barron added, “The directorate placed KGB officers within the Russian Orthodox Church hierarchy and recruits bonafide clergymen as agents. Much of its work is accomplished through the Council on Religious Affairs, which is heavily staffed with retired and disabled KGB officers.”

"Nothing has really changed. In fact, the Russian Orthodox Church is even closer to the regime these days, and is still so morally bankrupt that it published a 2014 calendar in honor of Soviet mass murderer Joseph Stalin. Former KGB officer Konstantin Preobrazhensky has called it “Putin’s Espionage Church,” and devotes a major portion of his book, KGB/FSB’s New Trojan Horse, to its use by the Russian intelligence service."

"The scholarly paper, “The Occult Revival in Russia Today and Its Impact on Literature,” demonstrates the existence of something as sinister as the regime’s domination of the church for its own political purposes. It describes how “post-Soviet Russia” has embraced New Age and occult ideas, even what the author, German academic Birgit Menzel, calls “dark” or “evil forces.”

snip...

One of many fascinating revelations from Menzel’s well-researched 2007 article is that Aleksandr Dugin, now an adviser to Putin, has incorporated some of these ideas into his theory of “geopolitical Eurasianism,” a revival of the Russian empire that includes Islamic Iran. She writes, “Since 2000, Dugin has moved to the center of political power close to the Putin administration by a deliberate strategy of veiling his mystic-esoteric ideology…”

This is the same Dugin who was photographed meeting with former American Ku Klux Klan leader and neo-Nazi David Duke in Russia. Duke argues, like many Russian nationalists, that communism was imposed on Russia by a Jewish banker conspiracy. Robert Zubrin, the author of several articles about Dugin, points out the similarities between the National Socialism of Hitler and Dugin’s original National Bolshevism. He says Dugin gave up on the idea of his own political party so he could become an adviser to Putin’s United Russia Party. For a time, he worked with the Russian Communist Party, the second largest political party in the country next to Putin’s United Russia.

As part of this transformation, Zubrin says, Putin himself became a spokesman for tradition and morality, even though the Russian government “runs the biggest organized human trafficking operation in the world,” kidnapping Russian girls and selling them around the world as prostitutes. “Nobody should be fooled by Putin’s claim of being a defender of conservative morality,” Zubrin says.

“There’s far more depravity in Russia, including homosexual depravity, than there is here,” he says. “In the Russian army, boyish recruits are subject to homosexual rape by officers as a form of hazing, and the regime protects this.”

[DariusBane]

Putin bashing. Look, Putin acts in the interest of Russia. We cannot say that Obama acts in the interest of The States so i give grudging admiration to Putin on that point.

Could Russia be an anti-Islamic partner for the U.S? I always thought so. But the geo-political views and interest of the countries are very different. I am not an expert and an expert is required to understand Russian internal and external interests.

I believe in real politics and real power. So does Putin. Obama is ideological not pragmatic. Bush was pragmatic. So that is the difference in how Putin deals with us now versus Bush. He sees us as weak and in decline. He acts with pragmatism to take advantage.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Anyone notice that you are hear to cause trouble? I don’t think anyone around here has all the facts about world politics.

You don't have all the facts, you Neo-Soviet slimeball, but you know that there is a NWO conspiracy to support the Nazi Ukrainians against the 'eeeevil' Putin who is only defending himself from that conspiracy.

I got you figured out, you Putinista goober.

[dforest]

You just showed your Obamabot dirty panties for all to see. You bleat loudmouthed insults but you never have posted a damn thing about what you want the US response to be. That is why you are a fraud poster. Zotting is too good for you.

[Corporate Democrat]

The evidence that the Russian separatists shot down the Malaysian aircraft is overwhelming, largely because they utterly and totally incriminated themselves with photos, video, posts and breathless news releases crowing about "another AN-26" getting shot down a full hour before Malaysia Airlines first reported a missing airplane.

It was originally posted on the personal page of Igor Girkin on the Russian version of Facebook vk.com, which he has been using for months as his own personal propaganda outlet. He's still posting alibis over there with the incriminating post deleted, of course.

In it he clearly says that his forces downed "another AH-26" and even posts two video clips of the planes getting shot down.

It's deleted now, but nothing ever gets off the Internet once it's on there. If you think that that post was a clever photoshop, Google Cache has the original incriminating post archived.

If that's still not enough, or if you think Google is somehow working with the Ukrainians in a coverup, or got hacked by the NSA or something, even ITAR-TASS, a Russian propaganda organ still has a post up reporting on "eyewitnesses" that witnessed Russian rebels shooting down a AH-26.

If that's STILL not enough proof, or if you think that ITAR-TASS was somehow tricked by the CIA, NSA, NATO into reporting that a AN-26 was shot down less than an hour before the world realized it was a commercial plane, both RIA Novoski and Life News, again both Russian propaganda outlets still have reports up of an AN-16 being shot down over Eastern Ukraine a full hour before the horrific truth came out.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Could Russia be an anti-Islamic partner for the U.S? I always thought so.

Why would you think so, at least in the past? It is no secret that Russia is supporting Iran's nuclear ambitions. What is less well known in western media is that Putin is building his own personal Islamic caliphate in Chechnya with his puppet "president," who keeps a sex dungeon and imposes Sharia, in between naming streets after Putin and delivering 99 percent of the vote for Putin's party.

Russia is also an ally of Syria, not because he is pro-Christian. Syria is just as rabid against the Jews as the Islamists.

Whoever thinks Russia and its underground communist structures are interested in waging a war against Islam have not been paying attention.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

You just showed your Obamabot dirty panties for all to see. You bleat loudmouthed insults but you never have posted a damn thing about what you want the US response to be. That is why you are a fraud poster. Zotting is too good for you.

Looks more like YOUR mask is falling, you Putinista scumbag.

[dforest]

Many of us will acknowledge that the Separatists probably did it.

But, if this is so, what good does it do to argue over who did it? Question is, should we and if so, what are we to do about it in light of the poor condition America is in at the time. How are we to stop Russians when we can’t even stop what is happening in America?

And...is it our job to go it alone? A fear of many.

These are questions. Not support of Putin.

Thanks for being a sane poster. It is appreciated.

[dforest]

I have been here since 2006. I really am not too worried I would be considered a Putinista.

So go suck a few eggs sparky.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

I have been here since 2006.

And you've been a pathological liar since March.

[wetphoenix]

~“There’s far more depravity in Russia, including homosexual depravity, than there is here,” he says. “In the Russian army, boyish recruits are subject to homosexual rape by officers as a form of hazing, and the regime protects this.”~

A load of BS.