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Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 5 -7, 2003
Various | November 5, 2003 | sweetliberty

Posted on 11/05/2003 12:14:25 AM PST by sweetliberty

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To: Republic
I think you will find that the Court found by "clear and convincing evidence", a higher standard than "by the preponderence of the evidence" standard, that Terri would not want to be sustained indefinately with no hope for recovery.

The Court of Appeal addressed this issue in Schiavo I:

"In the final analysis, the difficule question that faced the trial court was whether Theresa Marie Schlindler Schiavo, not after a few weeks of coma, but after ten years in a presistent vegetive state that has robbed her of most of her cerebrum and all but the most instinctive of neurological functions, with no hope of a medical cure, but with sufficient money and strength of body to live indefinately, would choose to continue the constant nursing care and the supporting tubes in hopes that a miracle would somehow recreate her missing brain tissue, or whether she would wish to permit a natural death process to take its course and for her family members and loved ones to be free to continue their lives. After due consideration, we conclude that the trial judge had clear and convincing evidence to answer this question as he did."

561 posted on 11/06/2003 1:35:42 PM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: FR_addict
It won't be hard. Schiavo has a devil-may-care attitude about his treatment of Terri. He was obviously too overconfident that no one would give a damn.

He is evil. Makes me sick to see him walking around like he is a model husband and can't understand why people don't view him that way. This is the classic narcissistic sociopath, he has a grandiose view of himself (helped by the courts allowing him to do these things all along) in addition to not seeing anyones pain but his own.

Felos is worse. The girlfriend is worse than the two of them combined. She has been with Schiavo for 7-8 years now and has the stamp of approval (kiss of death) from his rotten family.

562 posted on 11/06/2003 1:38:18 PM PST by atruelady
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To: Republic
I'm inclined to agree.

.


563 posted on 11/06/2003 1:41:14 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: daylate-dollarshort
This court came to the erroneous decision by relying on doctors who reviewed "cleaned out" medical records presenting a distorted view of things in addition to ignoring the Schindlers proof that Terri never had proper care.

The petition filed yesterday to remove HINO as guardian said it best when it states that Schiavo "isolated her". That is a form of abuse. If my husband locked me in our home (he would never) and wouldn't let me have access to anything, I could have him arrested for imprisonment.

But because Schiavo and his attorney keep her locked in at a hospice (illegally, I want to see Greer address this), he gets away with it.

I said it before on previous posts. Greer should have ruled by law not by making it up as he went along. This is how Felos has gotten his way.

Felos is a mockery of human beings. He needs to keep talking because he looks more and more ridiculous as the days go by. "Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool than to open your mouth and have it confirmed!"
564 posted on 11/06/2003 1:43:58 PM PST by atruelady
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To: sweetliberty
LOL-oh yeah! Last response was a kick....quoting from the entire source of the problem....lol...doesn't it kinda make ya just wonder about the hearts and souls of certain folks? Ah well....best to ignore. Such coldness and lack of understanding belongs in the trash.
565 posted on 11/06/2003 1:45:00 PM PST by Republic
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To: Concerned
CONCERNED WROTE: BTW, any thoughts about this response format? I do like to include the name of the person who wrote the comment I am responding to because sometimes it is not clear.

My thoughts about your response format:

Oak Hay... No Complaint... Makes Sense... Do It To It... Let's Roll !!! ;-))

.

566 posted on 11/06/2003 1:46:32 PM PST by GeekDejure (<H3> Searching For The Meaning Of "Huge" Fonts !!!</H3>)
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To: daylate-dollarshort
So why did MS prevent any of these doctors from even examing her?

It still comes down to the ONE doctor that Greer choose that made this "conclusion" you keep citing.

Obviously, MS's chosen doctors are paid to decide for murder.

Terri's doctors choose the opposite - even a poor life is better than a lingering death by starvation. And, of course, we hope that real treatment (instead of malpractice and torture) could yield a better life.

So, your much vaunted "impartial" decision comes down to one doctor's opinion.
567 posted on 11/06/2003 1:46:54 PM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only support FR by donating monthly, but ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: All
I meant to state from the time I signed on FR, that I wanted help with posting skills, but alas they didn't ask so I don't have anything in writing. Since I did not sign anything saying I didn't want help with my posting errors..some people have now decided that I want no communication at all on the matter.

I still need help.

568 posted on 11/06/2003 1:51:14 PM PST by Krodg (a proud member of the 'God's Squad')
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To: Krodg

He could have divorced her at any time- of course he would have divorced himself from the money too.

The love of money is the root of all evil.
569 posted on 11/06/2003 1:52:24 PM PST by pickyourpoison
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To: Krodg
Sorry, Krodg! I don't know if I can help, 'cause I still consider myself to be a newbie, but I'll try. Surely someone else will jump in to help also.

So, what does your comment page look like? What seems to be messed up?
570 posted on 11/06/2003 2:04:53 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: daylate-dollarshort
I do know that even Dr. Hammesfahr, Shindlers' expert, would not state that he could restore Terri's cognative functions and agreed that Terri's cerebral cortex was irreparably damaged as did their second expert Dr. Maxfield.

Neurologist Dr. William Hammesfahr testified that a treatment he developed for stroke patients could restore Terri's ability to speak." (Uh oh...wouldn't want that!) Dr. Hammesfahr testifies he could restore Terri's cognitive functions

Dr. William Maxfield compared Terri's 1996 CAT scan to her 2002 scan and testified that Terri's brain tissue appeared more localized and uniform. "It tells me that the brain tissue on the [2002] study has a more normal appearance," Maxfield testified. Dr. Maxfield testifies that Terri's cerebral cortex is NOT irreparably damaged


571 posted on 11/06/2003 2:05:12 PM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: sweetliberty
From the Village Voice, of all places...a very pro-Terri article:

The Village Voice: Nation: Nat Hentoff: A Woman's Life Versus an Inept Press

We don't have full understanding of brain damage and consciousness . . . every patient is different . . . every patient's pattern of brain damage is different. —Dr. Ross Bullock, Reynolds professor of neurosurgery at Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, Virginia, Newsday, October 26

I have covered highly visible, dramatic "right to die" cases—including those of Karen Ann Quinlan and Nancy Cruzan—for more than 25 years. Each time, most of the media, mirroring one another, have been shoddy and inaccurate.

The reporting on the fierce battle for the life of 39-year-old Terri Schiavo has been the worst case of this kind of journalistic malpractice I've seen.

On October 15, Terri's husband and legal guardian, Michael Schiavo, ordered the removal of her feeding tube. As she was dying, the Florida legislature and Governor Jeb Bush overruled her husband on October 21, and the gastric feeding tube has been reinserted pending further recourse to the court.

So intent is Michael Schiavo on having his wife die of starvation that one of his lawyers, after the governor's order to reconnect the feeding tube, faxed doctors in the county where the life-saving procedure was about to take place, threatening to sue any physician who reinserted a feeding tube. The husband had immediately gone to court to get a judge to revoke what the legislature and the governor had done.

The husband claims that he is honoring his marriage vows by carrying out the wishes of his wife that she not be kept alive by "artificial means." As I shall show, this hearsay "evidence" by the husband has been contradicted. The purportedly devoted husband, moreover, has been living with another woman since 1995. They have a child, with another on the way. Was that part of his marital vows?

For 13 years, Terri Schiavo has not been able to speak for herself. But she is not brain-dead, not in a comatose state, not terminal, and not connected to a respirator. If the feeding tube is removed, she will starve to death. Whatever she may or may not have said, did she consider food and water "artificial means?"

The media continually report that Terri is in a persistent vegetative state, and a number of neurologists and bioethicists have more than implied to the press that "persistent" is actually synonymous with "permanent." This is not true, as I shall factually demonstrate in upcoming columns. I will also provide statements from neurologists who say that if Terri were given the proper therapy—denied to her by her husband and guardian after he decided therapy was becoming too expensive despite $750,000 from a malpractice suit—she could learn to eat by herself and become more responsive.

Terri is responsive, beyond mere reflexes. Having this degree of sentience, if she is starved to death, she will not "die in peace" as The New York Times predicts in an uninformed October 23 editorial supporting the husband. What happens to someone who can feel pain during the process of starvation is ghastly.

Increasingly, New York Times editorials are not as indicative of conscious liberal "bias" as they are of ignorance or denial of the facts, as I have demonstrated in my series on Judge Charles Pickering.

In all the stories on Terri Schiavo and her parents' determined efforts to save her life, the media continually report that the Florida legislature intervened because of many thousands of calls, letters, and e-mails from the Christian right and pro-lifers. Those groups and individuals are indeed a major factor in rousing support to prevent Terri from being starved to death. But among the many others who sent urgent messages are disabled Americans and their organizations.

Except for the op-ed page article by Stephen Drake of the Not Dead Yet organization in the October 29 Los Angeles Times ("Disabled Are Fearful: Who Will Be Next?") and a letter in the October 24 New York Times, I have seen hardly any mention in the press of the deeply concerned voices of the disabled, many of whom, in their own lives, have survived being terminated by bioethicists and other physicians who strongly believe that certain lives are not worth living. The numbers of these "new priesthoods of death," as I call them, are increasing.

The letter to The New York Times signed by Max Lapertosa, staff counsel, Access Living in Chicago—told of "14 national disability organizations that filed a friend-of-the-court brief to support keeping Terri Schiavo alive." Lapertosa objected to a Times editorial calling for Terri to go gently into that good night because, said the moral philosophers of the Times, "true respect for life includes recognizing . . . when it ceases to be meaningful."

Max Lapertosa reminded Gail Collins's board of oracles at the Time's editorial page that "many would lump into this category [of meaningless lives] people with severe autism, multiple sclerosis or cerebral palsy who, like Mrs. Schiavo, are nonverbal and are often described as being "in their own world."

"The judicial sanctioning of such attitudes," Lapertosa continued, "moves America back to the days when the sterilization and elimination of people with disabilities did not merely reflect private prejudices but were embraced as the law of the land."

In the Los Angeles Times' October 29 op-ed piece by Stephen Drake, he writes: "I was born brain-damaged as a result of a forceps delivery. The doctor told my parents I would be a 'vegetable' for the rest of my life—the same word now being used for Schiavo—and that the best thing would be for nature to take its course. They refused. Although I had a lot of health problems, surgeries and pain as a child, I went on to lead a happy life." And clearly, his is a very articulate life. I have interviewed other such "vegetables."

Ignoring the facts of the case, the American Civil Liberties Union—to my disgust, but not my surprise in view of the long-term distrust of the ACLU by disability rights activists—has marched to support the husband despite his grave conflicts of interests in this life-or-death case. The ACLU claims the governor and the legislature of Florida unconstitutionally overruled the courts, which continued to declare the husband the lawful guardian. On the other hand, the ACLU cheered when Governor George Ryan of Illinois substituted his judgment for that of the courts by removing many prisoners from death row. In a later column, I'll go deeper into the constitutional debate over saving Terri's life.

In the October 28 weeklystandard.com, Wesley Smith, author of Forced Exit—who has accurately researched more of these cases than anyone I know—reports that of the $750,000 to be held in trust for Terri's rehabilitation, two of Michael Schiavo's lawyers pressing for removal of her feeding tube have been paid more than $440,000. Whom did that rehabilitate? Any comment from the ACLU? If the husband and the lawyers succeed, maybe the ACLU will send flowers to Terri's funeral.

572 posted on 11/06/2003 2:05:48 PM PST by msmagoo
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To: CindyDawg

I believe Lamar Outdoor Advertising has the Pinellas County area. You might check with them.
573 posted on 11/06/2003 2:07:23 PM PST by pickyourpoison
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To: Krodg; sweetliberty; All
I have to run out for a while. Can someone help Krodg with his comments page?
574 posted on 11/06/2003 2:10:26 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: sweetliberty; Republic
Type 2 These are wretched and misguided gollum-like creatures, repugnant and odious on the one hand and pathetic on the other. It is a mistake to underestimate this type... Depending on their persistence and level of disruption, it may or may not necessary to report them to the moderators.

Hmmm...what to do? What to do?

575 posted on 11/06/2003 2:13:45 PM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: atruelady

I hope he peed his pants when he heard that judge yesterday.

576 posted on 11/06/2003 2:15:53 PM PST by pickyourpoison
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To: pickyourpoison
He probably did...has to wear "Depends" to court now.
577 posted on 11/06/2003 2:17:25 PM PST by atruelady
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To: Krodg
I found these to be helpful. I'm still learning too but I just managed to italicize a quote!

Help and Posting Guidelines
http://www.freerepublic.com/help.htm

HTML Bootcamp

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38d821710885.htm
578 posted on 11/06/2003 2:17:42 PM PST by wisconsinconservative (Christian, Conservative.......and proud of it)
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To: atruelady
"This is the classic narcissistic sociopath, he has a grandiose view of himself (helped by the courts allowing him to do these things all along) in addition to not seeing anyones pain but his own." You hit the nail on the head. These types are pretty good at playing people, and making up the "truth" as it suits their version of reality.
579 posted on 11/06/2003 2:20:58 PM PST by Annie03 (donate at www.terrisfight.org)
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To: msmagoo
Oh my! That is one of the best analysis from the press I've yet seen, and from a most unexpected source. How awesome that the author also mentions a few upcoming series on this critical issue. I think this article is worthy of posting on its own thread. Would you consider that?
580 posted on 11/06/2003 2:22:37 PM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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