NYC district denies birth of Jesus?

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Wednesday, November 12, 2003

[JohnHuang2]

BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
NYC district denies
birth of Jesus?
Nativity scene barred as not 'historically accurate representation of an event'

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Posted: November 12, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

In a dispute over display of holiday symbols, New York City schools are allowing Jewish menorahs and Islamic crescents but barring Christian nativity scenes, alleging the depiction of the birth of Christ does not represent a historical event.

In pleadings with a federal court in defense of the ban, New York City lawyers asserted the "suggestion that a crèche is a historically accurate representation of an event with secular significance is wholly disingenuous."

The Jewish and Islamic symbols are allowed, the district says, because they have a secular dimension, but the Christian symbols are "purely religious."

Robert J. Muise, who will challenge the school policy at a federal court hearing tomorrow in Brooklyn, told WorldNetDaily be believes most Americans don't see it that way.

"The birth of Jesus is a historical event which serves as the basis for celebration of Christmas," Muise stated. "It's of importance for both Christians and non-Christians."

Muise's Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center filed a motion to temporarily restrain the city from enforcing its ban on nativity scenes. The center asserts New York's policy "promotes the Jewish and Islamic faiths while conveying the impermissible message of disapproval of Christianity in violation of the U.S. Constitution."

The Michigan group says one public-school principal issued a memo encouraging teachers to bring to school "religious symbols" that represent the Islamic and Jewish religions, but made no mention of Christianity.

Jewish menorahs adorned the halls of the school as part of the authorized displays, the More Center said, but students were not allowed to make and similarly display nativity scenes

A parent who wrote a letter of complaint to her son's teacher received a copy of the school's "Holiday Displays" policy in response.

Kate Ahlers, communications director for New York City's law department, says schools can use things that are secular like menorahs, stars and snowflakes, but the crèche is considered religious.

"There is a separation of church and state that is part of the Constitution," she claimed. "It's a clear belief that people try to follow in schools and public office, and schools are saying they adhere to that belief."

The point of schools, she added, "is not to debate religion; the point of schools is to teach children."

The federal civil-rights lawsuit was filed on behalf of Andrea Skoros and her two elementary-school children against the city of New York and several school officials.

Skoros and her children are devout Roman Catholics.

"Can Christianity be erased from a public school?" Muse asked in a statement. "Can 'Christ' be removed from Christmas? We will soon find out."

[JohnHuang2]

Wednesday, November 12, 2003

Quote of the Day by Interesting Times

[nathanbedford]

Well, of course the particular facts of this incident are not really important. I used to think they were, about 40 years ago when I was assigned to write about Engel V Vitale in university. My father smiled patronizingly and I bristled.

Now I know much better. In those days (now almost 2 generations ago) I actually believed there was an objective constitutional reality which one could discern with the application of human reason.

Now, to my sorrow, I know better. As my nice suburban childhood has crumpled into something which my grandmothers would abhor, I know as one who has been to the brink and has looked into hell that we are now in thrall to a secular religion that despises the Christianity of my forbearers. My mother catholic, my father protestant, we never dreamed in the 1950s of the secular forces which were arrayed against us. My parents were building our Levit - towns for us kids after having offered their bodies against the Nazis and the Jap(s)anese.

Does it matter that everything that they believed in is now legally labelled as invidious? Must we accept that there is no more a culture that justifies or condemns bahavior on Christian values?

What is the alternative? Muslim values? What have they brought to the world? Secular values? Check out THE BLACK BOOK OF COMMUNISM. Nice suburban Jewish values? I am not prepared to accept them.

Where am I to go in my own land?

[Old_Grouch]

Nathan,
I agree, it is very discouraging. I have to question what devout Catholics are doing with children in the hostile government school system anyway.

You ask "Where can I go in my own land?" Check out www.freestateproject.org, a group dedicated to liberty in our lifetime. One of the longterm goals of members is to phase out government education and return it to the private sector where it belongs!

Holly

[xsmommy]

i think a lot of this depends on where you are in this country. i live in the ultra-PC DC suburbs. my kids will NEVER attend public school in this area. they are in Catholic school for that very reason. However, i have nieces in Ohio and one in upstate NY and it is much more like when i was in public school in the late 60s and early 70s there. The NYC schools, discussed here, are going to be just like DC, if not worse.

[Non-Sequitur]

Menorahs are secular?????

[MrTed]

I hope they plan to remove any references at the school to the year 2003, or to next year's class of 2004, or last year's class of 2003, or . . . Since the Nativity is considered of no historical significance, any reference to the widely accepted date scheme is no longer acceptable.

[TaxPayer2000]

Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

[paulklenk]

We do know that the shepherds and the magi did not visit on the same day, as depicted in the Nativity. But I guess this really isn't about historical accuracy, is it?

Let's give them an alternative: A Nativity that's missing the magi. Let's see how they deal with that.

[yoe]

America is made up of people who fled other places in this world in order to live without the fear of oppression and the freedom to practice religion, as they believe it. Brooklyn is made up of immigrants, generations of them, many who witnessed the horrors of the Holocaust or have family members who were victims of that profane time; Jewish centers with photographs saying “Never Forget”. Are they forgetting? Was it a mistake to make room in our schools for Muslim children to pray during the day? Or is this insensitive behavior towards Christians just for Christians? It would seem so.

Perhaps the Swastika or the Sickle and Star or other symbols of oppression would be more appropriate in our schools and city squares and on our lawns.

[Ben Bolt]

"They" would gripe less if the symbol of Christain choice was the Christmas tree, seeing as it was invented by Queen Victoria's consort, Price Albert (yep, the same guy as in the can)when he imported spruce trees from his native Germany, decorated them with live candles and used them as palace decoration for the Royal Family. So much easier than hauling those huge Yule Logs to the fireplace and keeping them burning for the 12 days of Christmas. Less smoke and mess too, unless the whole tree, room, house burned!

[NYer]

The Jewish and Islamic symbols are allowed, the district says, because they have a secular dimension, but the Christian symbols are "purely religious."

The secular menorah.

The religious nativity.

[maryz]

That "menorah" you're showing is actually a chanukiyah. The menorah is 7-branched; the chanukiyah has 8 lights for the 8 days the lamps in the Temple miraculously burned and the (I think) "shomer" to light them from.

[maryz]

Oopw - not "shomer" but maybe "shamash" (I think)!

[Catholicguy]

Don't move to Palm Beach County Florida thinking relief may be found. Today, the Palm Beach Co. School District's attorney warned school administrators today they had to keep religious advertisments out of school - say nothing about a creche.

They've been receiving pressure from the ADL complaining that a local school posted banners advertising weekend church services.

In May a Fed Judge upheld a decision by Boca Raton High Schol Principal to have a student paint over portions of a mural she was asked to contribute to. The offensive scene depicted God, Jesus, and the Cross.

Stories like these are repated all over the country and the ADL carries on its hate campaign against Mel Gibson and "The Passion" while the media warns us the Christian Right is taking over America.

Happy Holidays (Holy Days).

[Xenalyte]

When did a menorah become a secular symbol?

[Coleus]

When did a menorah become a secular symbol?>>

I think those NYC school lawyers are going to open up Pandora's box when they say that a Menorah is a secular symbol. How can they back up that statement?

True that Chanukkah is not as high on the holy day calendar as other Jewish holidays; however, it still is religious holiday and a religious symbol. Once NYC admits it's a religious symbol then it's fair game to put Christian symbols in school.

[HamiltonJay]

bwahahahahahhahahahahaha.... with decisions like that coming out of NYC... one does have to wonder if the radical islam attacks of it being a godless and immoral place aren't true....

[Coleus]