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Vanity: An Open Message to the Republican Party Cheerleaders on this Forum...
12-10-03 | Vanity

Posted on 12/10/2003 7:39:21 PM PST by ambrose

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To: dcwusmc
Great speech, one of my favorites.

But Davy Crockett's speeches are not the law of the land, the Constitution is.
621 posted on 12/14/2003 8:27:10 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
And if you read through it AND read the 10th Amendment, you will realize that there is NO Constitutional authority for the Federal Government to be involved in redistribution of wealth, PERIOD. Nowhere. Which is precisely what Col Crockett was saying in his speech.
622 posted on 12/14/2003 8:37:16 PM PST by dcwusmc ("The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for hims)
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To: nopardons
It's so incredibly frustrating in here, the unfathomable ignorance of the vast majority of the people posting on this forum is unbelieveable.

The level of understanding of politics is abysmal, the grasp on the reality of governing a complex nation such as ours non-existant.

Worse of all, I truly don't think anyone reads past the name of the article before posting an opinion on its contents.
623 posted on 12/14/2003 8:53:34 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: nopardons
Incrementalism is what got us to this point and it's the ONLY thing that'll get us out of the messes.

Tell me, we've been going about this 'incrementalism' for nigh on 20 years. Some could say it's been much, much longer (about 143 years) but we won't discuss that. Let's stick to 20 years. And in this 20 years of 'incrementalism' just how much ground has the right lost and the left won?

Sorry but 'incrementalism' does not work and will never work. If the Republican party wants to keep the conservatives in its ranks, it's going to take much more than empty promises that are never fulfilled in the hopes that 4 or 6 years later we've somehow forgotten about them

624 posted on 12/14/2003 8:57:44 PM PST by billbears (Dole cares, she really does. About what I have NO idea...)
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To: dcwusmc
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

That Tenth Amendment?

U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

Oh look!

The Constitution delegated the power to collect Taxes to provide for the General Welfare of the United States to Congress!!!!

625 posted on 12/14/2003 8:57:53 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I couldn't possibly agree more, if I tried. That's one reason why I no longer post all that much.

Unfortunately, many here, now, either post just so that they can at last see their own paltry ideas in print, yearn for attention... ANY kind of attention, and/or don't have anyone else, in their lives, whom they can talk to. Their utter and abject lack of knowledge and understading of politics, governance, history, and much else, makes any kind of a debate/discussion just about impossible.

An early MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY & HEALTHY NEW YEAR, to you and yours, Luis. :-)

626 posted on 12/14/2003 9:03:21 PM PST by nopardons
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To: billbears
Let's see, twenty years ago or thereabouts, Ronald Reagan was president, lots of gains during that administration, then Bush I, eight years of Clinton, and now, three years of Bush II.

During that period of time, and in spite of Bill Clinton's best efforts, we destroyed communism, enjoyed unbelievable economical growth, and in spite of Bill Clinton's best efforts, became the lone superpower in the world.

In other words, the past twenty years have seen this nation reach heights never before reached in our history.

What exactly is your beef?

627 posted on 12/14/2003 9:05:01 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: billbears
The INCREMENTALISM, of which I and others speak, has been propiciated by Dems and it's worked. The Republicans haven't had much of a hand in that, for far more than 20 years; more like 70 + ! And, that incrementalism, from the left, has worked beautifully for them.

If some so-called Conservatives refuse to understand that,not to mention just HOW this game is played,and stay home/go the thrid party route ( which is tantimount to the same thing ), then they are just aiders and abettors of those who are Conservative's ENEMIES...helping to insure that they and the rest of us ( who know what';s what ) NEVER get anything that they claim that they want.

Imagining what things were before, without taking into consideration historical FACT, is what gets you into the hole you're in.

628 posted on 12/14/2003 9:09:25 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Luis Gonzalez; dcwusmc
From the reasoning of many on this subject it would seem as if the question concerning requisitions & direct taxes was, whether direct taxes shall be levied or not. This is by no means the case. If extraordinary aids for the public safety be not necessary, direct taxes will not be necessary. If extraordinary emergences call for such aids, the only question will be whether direct taxes shall be raised by the General Government itself or whether the General Government shall require the State Governments to raise them: or in other words whether they shall be raised in all the States, or be raised in some States, whilst others unjustly withdraw their shoulders from the common burden.--James Madison letter to George Thompson

James Madison and the rest of the Founding Fathers, even Hamilton and his ilk, could never have imagined that this nation of states would become what it has either. Frankly from their writings I think the level and size of the national government would have disgusted them

629 posted on 12/14/2003 9:17:38 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: nopardons
good post
630 posted on 12/14/2003 9:20:17 PM PST by Mo1 (House Work, If you do it right , will kill you!)
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To: Mo1
Many thanks. Facts work ALL of the time, though. LOL
631 posted on 12/14/2003 9:24:06 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Luis Gonzalez
During that period of time, and in spite of Bill Clinton's best efforts, we destroyed communism, enjoyed unbelievable economical growth, and in spite of Bill Clinton's best efforts, became the lone superpower in the world.

I give credit to President Reagan on his excellent foreign policy and what it did to bring the USSR to its knees. However I'm not sure why one, especially a conservative, would give credit to a government for the economy.

632 posted on 12/14/2003 9:25:23 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: billbears
"James Madison and the rest of the Founding Fathers, even Hamilton and his ilk, could never have imagined that this nation of states would become what it has either."

They couldn't have imagined the Internet, cellular phones, the internal combustion engine, cancer, women voting, women being elected to Congress, DNA, stealth bombers, CAT scans...

Complex societies cannot be governed by simple means.

633 posted on 12/14/2003 9:34:41 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: nopardons
That's what I like about you guys on the 'right'. Just keep plugging at the same old thing, year after year, in the hopes that one day, maybe next year it will all change. We have a Republican Senate, Republican House of Representatives, and would you look at that? A Republican President to boot.

And what do we have to show for it? Rollback of government spending? Nope, most spending since LBJ (BTW he was a Democrat). More freedom of the press? Well if you consider CFR some sort of freedom, but you wouldn't be a conservative then would you? A stricter reading of the 2nd Amendment? Well strict in the sense if Bush signs the AWB only the 'militia' in the form of the National Guard will be the ones holding the weapons one day. And that's 'incrementalism' is it? Sounds like an 'incremental' move to the left if you ask me.

If some so-called Conservatives refuse to understand that,not to mention just HOW this game is played,and stay home/go the thrid party route ( which is tantimount to the same thing ), then they are just aiders and abettors of those who are Conservative's ENEMIES...helping to insure that they and the rest of us ( who know what';s what ) NEVER get anything that they claim that they want.

And if the Republican party were to make its intent known, perhaps conservatives (Old Right) would be able to finally understand there is no hope in the Republican party, except in a few instances, and establish a conservative party based on the principles, fiscal and social, that this nation of states was founded upon

Intelligent voters don't vote based on the alphabet but rather what the candidate believes. However you are asking us to vote by the letter beside the person's name.

634 posted on 12/14/2003 9:35:58 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: billbears
"However I'm not sure why one, especially a conservative, would give credit to a government for the economy."

Go live under communism and come back to tell me how government does not impact the economy of a nation.

635 posted on 12/14/2003 9:36:01 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: billbears
"Old Right."

That's such a pantload.

What "old right"?

It must be a prehistoric right, because there's no indication that this "old right" ever existed.

636 posted on 12/14/2003 9:38:14 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: billbears
"And if the Republican party were to make its intent known, perhaps conservatives (Old Right) would be able to finally understand there is no hope in the Republican party, except in a few instances, and establish a conservative party based on the principles, fiscal and social, that this nation of states was founded upon."

Some plan!

Trying to affect political change by purposely seeking to achieve irrelevance.

637 posted on 12/14/2003 9:42:09 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: billbears
The Founders, dead two hundred years now, could not possibly have defined what providing for the general welfare of the United States means today.
638 posted on 12/14/2003 9:52:17 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: billbears
Okay, lets just allow the Dems to hold EVERY elected position there is to be held and to appoint like minded Dems to EVERY appointed position, into perpetuity. Lets all hold hands and sing the INTERNACIONAL, then.

You may imagine that you know/understand about politics and government; however, you don't, on either acacount. And calling those of us, whom you don't agree with, " you guys on the right " ( WHAT THE BLEEDING HELL ARE YOU...ON THE LEFT ? ),makes NO sense in this context.

There are three kinds of people ( there used to be only two, but not anymore )... those who see the glass as 1/2 full, those who see the glass as 1/2 empty, and those, like you, who see NO GLASS at all.

The slim majority, the GOP has in the Senate, is just about nonexistant and your claim, re that " majority", only PROVES, dead to rights, that you haven't a clue. Please, please, PLEASE buy one !

Ronald Reagan, himself, doesn't pass YOUR smell test. Perhaps you might care to readjust your positions/ideas some.

What you're proposing, re you oh soooooooooooooooooooooooo far right, you're about left, PURITS/MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN THOUers forming a new party, is a death wish, a DEATH WISH of such huge proportions, as to be laughable, if it weren't so destructive. You're truly delusional, childish in your absurd disconect from reality, that it boggles the mind. Get those crazy, mythic, fictionalized, fantasy day dreams, about what life was once here, would be again if only every politician did as you and your ilk said they should do out of your mind. Life was NEVER what you assume it was like.

When President Bush is re-elected and should he be given a much larger majority, in BOTH Houses, he WILL be able to get more ( and he's already done quite a lot to forward the Conservative cause,in an untenable situation , which you ignore and ignore and IGNORE, because it doesn't quite suit your agenda ) done, to all of liking.

Then, there is the elephant sitting in the middle of the room, which you refuse to acknowledge...this nation is NOT as Conservative as you are, many don't agree with any of our positins,NO president can ram down the populace's throats, as a dictator can, whatever it is he wants, and President Bush is the PRESIDENT of ALL Americans, not just the faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar off the edge ones.

Incrementaism works. Incrementalism is the way WE must go, if we hope to EVER get anything at all, that we wish done, done. Yes, it takes years; even decades. You want a benevolent dictator, not a president. You demand INSTANT GRATIFICATION, like a spoiled child or petulant teen. You want what you want, when you want it, or you're gonna stamp your feet, throw a temper tantrum, and take away your vote.

GROW UP, ACCEPT THE POSSIBLE, FORGET ABOUT INSTANT GRATIFICATION, AND WORK TO FORWARD OUR COMMON GOALS !

If you refuse to, then you shall NEVER get even a wee bit of what you claim you want.

639 posted on 12/14/2003 9:58:13 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I am sick and tired of repeating myself endlessly, to the UNAPPEASEABLES! I've had far better luck convincing rabid, card carrying , stinking Commies, that with FR's benighted PURISTS.

YUCK!

640 posted on 12/14/2003 9:59:47 PM PST by nopardons
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