US Bases in Germany will be closed

Die Welt am Sonntag | 12-13-2003 | Americanbychoice

[americanbychoice]

Minister of Defense, Peter Struck has announced the closing of military bases and a decrease of American Soldiers in Germany. Their State Departement, Defence Ministry and American representatives are building a "Work group", announced Struck to Die Welt am Sonntag. After that,the American Secretary of Defense and Congress will decide in the Spring.

[caltrop]

It is about time. We should put the closure of US bases on hold, bring 99% of our ground forces (and their dependents) home and shift some of our Air Force elements and bases currently in Germany to countries such as Poland and Hungary. In Hungary, for example, we've already funded significant improvements to an air base in Taszar.

[Beck_isright]

"The defense of Europe was part of our strategy of keeping a wary eye on the Germans and preventing a resurgence of their militarism."

If you haven't noticed they are 0-2 in the last century. What a joke.

[Lancey Howard]

bttt

[caltrop]

Most of our units based in Europe are already either in or rotating out of Iraq or Afghanistan. I don't think our departure gains us any US boots on the ground. As I recall, we've something like 75,000 GIs in Europe, most in Germany. The cost of maintaining them and their families is gigantic.

[Quix]

I much agree.

Though it will probably hasten their hostility against us.

They are evidently slated to rush to GGT sooner.

[arete]

Allies are getting pretty scarce unless we can buy their support.

You got that right. We have to pay big taxpayer dollars to buy "friends" today. Spain and Poland are basically whore governments who sell themselves to the highest bidder. Stop paying them and they go looking for someone who will. France, Germany and Russia are just going to sit there and watch us self-destruct in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Richard W.

[CGVet58]

we have allies. Poland, Spain, Italy to name but a few. And the list is growing.

Don't believe or let yourself be swayed by the emphasis placed on the importance of having a France, Germany or Russia on our side. That these nations currently have a stronger potential by virtue of their economies or traditional strength isn't the issue - the meat of the matter at hand is that this War on Terror is a war of wills first and foremost.

Think of it this way - we're still in the trees (of the current conflict) and have not yet had sufficient time/distance to put us more into a "forest" perspective. To continue this metaphor, we see trees that previously were thought to be healthy (ie: our relationships with FRG) that now aren't; but other trees we're not used to observing (Eastern & Mediterranean Europe) grow healthy and strong.

Metaphors or other figures of speech ultimately only have value, though, in the "soundbite" impact (and ease of ingestion in our Instant-MacDonalds multi-tasked attention span world); so here's my own soundbite:

This is War.
America has been awakened.
America fights this war humanely.
America's leader, President Bush, appeals to (what little glimmer remains of...) decency among old-europe nations to do the right thing.

But no matter what... America will defeat our enemies and if need be, utterly destroy them.

(I know, not much of a soundbite, but I've never been one for coalescing complex life-or-death issues into a smarmy, 15-word-or-less statement that's universally understood and accepted)

CGVet58

[Terabitten]

I vote for new American bases in Poland.

Hear, hear! Hungary is nice too... they love Americans and it's dirt cheap. Lake Balaton, anyone?

[aruanan]

Allies are getting pretty scarce unless we can buy their support.

Allies? Germany and France? Where did you ever get that idea?

[Tailback]

Only problem I see is the cost of troop infrastructure. Whole installations built to American standards from the road surfaces and up then the costs of of the logistics. It will be staggering.

From what I've read the new bases won't be for long term deployments to include family members like in Germany. That means no dependent schools and family housing. That will make it much easier to base these soldiers. Boy, I wish I wasn't so close to retirement, I'd love to do a short tour in Poland, or the Czech Republic. The girls there are much cuter than Bavarians.

[riri]

The girls there are much cuter than Bavarians

What? You don't like the butter-knife haircut, no make up look?

[Squantos]

Having been stationed in Italy for a few years I suggest that we keep that country on our stay list. Good central location with the Alps and the Dolomites as a shit filter to the north and water barrier / ports for the rest of Ft Italia ! Airbases and Airborne safehaven.

With Poland, England and Italy Allies the Europeeing's will live up to their moniker.........:o)

Stay Safe !

[freedumb2003]

We can keep an eye on their militarism from Poland.

We can keep an eye on them from anywhere. We proved in Desert Storm and again in Iraq that we can deplay a LOT of resources quickly if need be.

Besides, Germany can't re-arm itself with a socialist economy.

[arete]

But no matter what... America will defeat our enemies and if need be, utterly destroy them.

Just like we did in Viet Nam? We sure kicked those rice eating, pj wearing shoeless uneducated commies around there now didn't we?

Richard W.

[ravingnutter]

About time.

This has been in the works for awhile, it just became public in Mar 2003...more info...

General Jones: Restructuring Europe Military Bases aim for speed, agility (Pulling Out of Germany) - March 2003

Saudi Move Part of Broader U.S. Military Realignment - April 2003

Forces on the Move: Rumsfeld Pushes for Major Realignment of Overseas Bases - May 2003

[freedumb2003]

but I've never been one for coalescing complex life-or-death issues into a smarmy, 15-word-or-less

Them bad
Us good
Them die
We live

It's simplistic and jingoistic but look at the word economy! ;)

[SAJ]

A very perceptive observation. Actually, though, such a ''revolution'' would more likely follow the lines of devolution, i.e. ''We quit'', leaving the EU with just the froggies, the Germans, and assorted hangers-on. Let's face it, after 40-50 years of being under the welfare-state thumb, the average Western Euroweenie has about as much appetite for revolution as a house cat. The old East European nations, just now developing (finally) for the first time, are harder to predict here.

A more interesting notion, possibly a bit farfetched just now, is that the resigning nations might form what amounts to their own second ''EU'', as a competing bloc.

[tessalu]

Germany is going down. This is sad.

[SAJ]

A triple whammy, truly. The froggies and Germans are deluding themselves if they think they're EVER going to collect more than 5-10 cents on the dollar of what Hussein's regime owed them...and the sum is upwards of $50 B.

[SkyPilot]

The title of the thread should be "Some US Military Bases in Germany to Close."

These will mostly be Army installations. The Air Force base at Rhein Main will completely close in 2005, but that has been agreed to for several years now. Ramstein and Spang Air Bases will remain.

The bottom line is that the US will still have a very large military presence in Germany for years to come.