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Bush to Propose Broad AmnestyTell Congress to Say No!
FAIR ^
| 12-24-03
| Fair staff
Posted on 12/24/2003 10:32:04 AM PST by Klickitat
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To: MNLDS
Thank you for all the level headed, logical, articulate posts you've made on this thread.
To: Once-Ler
What I find breathtaking is someone who passes out insults about the state I live in or phrases like revisionism, yet utterly fails to refute anything I wrote with facts. Perhaps some people think I should accept unsubstantiated opinion as facts because they live in CA. I do not.
None of what you've posted substantiates the canard you've echoed that it was the backlash against #187 that led to the Gray Davis victory in '98. That's Leftist revisionism, echoed by excusemakers in the GOP who'd rather wring their hands than roll up their sleeves and deal with illegals. That one event chronologically preceded another does not indicate causation. That you believe otherwise does not make your own opinion factually based.
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To: Klickitat
Bump.
To: FreedomCalls
There are plenty of willing and educated foreigners in Eastern Europe and the Sub-Continent who are willing to legally immigrate to the United States but who can't. Why should the Mexicans get preferencial treatment by coming in illegally?Eggsactly Freedom! I've had this same question for quite a while. Why are Mexicans allowed to violate our sovereignty with impunity?
What is this thing with Mexico?
I'm sure an Eastern European with a Ph.D found with an expired visa would be shipped out on the first flight leaving!
To: Mudboy Slim
Well, until Congress and this administration do something to stop this serious invasion problem they might as well be inviting potential terrorists into this country. As it appears right now, Americans are nothing more than sitting ducks for the next 9-11 to happen.
Those who support FTAA, NAFTA, and open borders are not Americans but are international socialists (communists) posing as "Republicans". To me they are nothing but wolves in sheeps clothing.
The only men I see fit to run this country in 2004 are Ron Paul or Tom Tancredo. And I prefer a man to run this country and not a woman. In God's eyes, women were never meant to lead but to follow their man and stand behind him all the way. If you put a woman in charge, she will destroy this country and the strength of our military.
To: Sabertooth
That one event chronologically preceded another does not indicate causation. One correlation need not indicate causation, but I offered several correlations. It is enough for me.
If an anti-immigration candidate ever does win...other than Wilson, the far right fringe will jump on that election as proof of their argument...as they did with Wilson. Only extreme hypocrisy explains why they will not own up to the anti-prop187 backlash. Unfortunately for the far right fringe my assertion, "an anti-immigration stance is a loser issue" is correct. Let me also mention Buchanan's defeats and John McCain's re-elections.
166
posted on
12/28/2003 2:08:33 PM PST
by
Once-Ler
(Proud Republican and Bushbot)
To: Once-Ler
One correlation need not indicate causation, but I offered several correlations. It is enough for me.
Gray Davis favored CDLs for Illegals. Where was your pro-Illegal Alien backlash in the California Recall Election? If an anti-immigration candidate ever does win...other than Wilson, the far right fringe will jump on that election as proof of their argument...
Yada, yada. More L.A. Times/GOP handwringer revisionism. Pete Wilson wasn't "anti-immigrant;" he campaigned against handouts for Illegals. There's a huge difference, but perpetuators of the backlash myth don't want to admit it. Instead, they prefer to play race and diversity cards against their own, while posing as "uniters."
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To: Klickitat
Sorry, people. We need to have a candidate run against Bush on the right. Only a primary scare will make him sit up and take notice that Karl Rove is leading him (not to mention America) down the wrong path.
To: TommyC1
Really?? TommyC1 Now that's a new approach to explain why legalizing them would be a good thing.
Maybe we should give more credit to the man we all voted for otherwise we would be like the loony left. God forbid!
Interesting.
169
posted on
12/28/2003 3:10:53 PM PST
by
stopem
To: Klickitat
Thank you. It's an emotional issue, so it's difficult not to get carried away. We need to win this issue with passion, without giving in to hatred, xenophobia or name-calling. If we sink to that level, we'll be no better than the DUmmies.
170
posted on
12/28/2003 3:30:04 PM PST
by
Choose Ye This Day
(Be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only... (James 1:22))
To: stopem
Ummm....
I'm not so sure TommyC1 has it 100% accurate. Please see post #152. Illegals pay payroll tax (Social Security & FICA). They might not even collect that later, since they're using a false SS #.
171
posted on
12/28/2003 3:32:02 PM PST
by
Choose Ye This Day
(Be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only... (James 1:22))
To: Sabertooth
Gray Davis favored CDLs for Illegals. Where was your pro-Illegal Alien backlash in the California Recall Election? I can think of 25 billion reasons Davis lost the recall
I never said pandering to illegals with a drivers license was a winning issue. I said an anti-immigrant position was a loser. Immigrant voters trust the Gov. He is after all an immigrant himself.
Sean Walsh, Schwarzenegger spokesman said, "No one understands the dreams and motivations of immigrants who come to this country more than Arnold Schwarzenegger. He arrived in this country with just a few dollars in his pocket, and like millions of other immigrants, was unable to speak the language. "He has great empathy for those who come here under similar circumstances. That said, he believes we are a nation governed by laws and that when our immigration laws are violated, too often undocumented immigrants are exploited."
It sounds like Ahnold does not share the same opinions of the far right fringe. Ahnold isn't saying the Mexicans are thieves and subhumans. He says they are getting exploited. Seems like a pretty nice guy to me. I'd vote for him.
Pete Wilson wasn't "anti-immigrant;" he campaigned against handouts for Illegals. There's a huge difference
Now you want to argue semantics rather than ideas. Maybe I can help you understand this way...Laws that hurt children and sick people, even illegal immigrants, are loser issues. Is that better? There is a huge difference between giving an illegal a drivers license and refusing to treating his heart attack. It a difference that Republicans with souls and human compassion for the less fortunate understand because we see our parents, grandparents, or great grandparents within today's immigrants fleeing to America for a better life.
172
posted on
12/28/2003 4:04:10 PM PST
by
Once-Ler
(Proud Republican and Bushbot)
To: Sabertooth
173
posted on
12/28/2003 4:08:10 PM PST
by
Once-Ler
(Proud Republican and Bushbot)
To: Once-Ler
I've printed off my two cents and will begin faxing on Monday morning. We have to get a jump on this- the Medicare fiasco cannot be repeated!!!!
To: rbessenger
I've printed off my two cents and will begin faxing on Monday morning. We have to get a jump on this- the Medicare fiasco cannot be repeated!!!! That is your right as an American. If you can show your elected officials that your opinion is the majority opinion they will do what you want. If however your view is the minority view it will fall on deaf ears because politicians must be elected before they can make/change law.
Dubya promised Medicare reform during the 2000 elections. He then made good on his promise.
George W. Bush Flashback: Listen to his words three years ago
Dubya is a good servant of the American people. He does what they want. Since Dubya, and the majority of Republicans and Democrats seem to favor a immigration amnesty, they must believe a majority of voters will also support it.
175
posted on
12/28/2003 4:47:29 PM PST
by
Once-Ler
(Proud Republican and Bushbot)
To: joesnuffy
As I read through this thread I was forming in my mind just what is going on here. Then I read your #117 and you have already said it. The only way to get a multi-national "peace keeping" force in this country is to have major unrest. By ourselves Americans just won't go that far. Hence; open borders and Atzlan.
What else could it be? This move is designed to foment unrest.
To: TigersEye
"The only way to get a multi-national "peace keeping" force in this country is to have major unrest. By ourselves Americans just won't go that far. Hence; open borders and Atzlan.
What else could it be? This move is designed to foment unrest."
That is just what our American foreign policy makers want: major unrest. They are creating this major unrest. And what they created will be finished! The problem with what they hope to happen is that this unrest will be brought to their doorsteps rather than on the streets. When they tell Tom Tancredo not to "darken" their doorsteps with the problem they created, they don't realize that Tom Tancredo has millions of followers backing him to "darken" their doorsteps. They want their war, they will get their war but not on their terms. This is a silent war that has been going on for years. The silence has been broken.
To: MNLDS
Do you think rewarding illegals with citizenship or legal residency is going to IMPROVE our security, or economy, or our society as a whole? I agree that getting control of our borders and who comes into this country is important when it comes to our security etc.
I don't see where the person who overstayed their visa or work permit all of a sudden becomes a threat to our national security if they are given some sort of amnesty or guest worker status.
I think Bush is being very reasonable about this.
178
posted on
12/28/2003 6:34:04 PM PST
by
Jorge
To: Jorge
A president who allows "guest workers" to remain in this country after their visas have expired, has broken the law of the United States just as the "guest worker" has. This is grounds for impeachment. We impeached Bill Clinton and we can also do the same to George Bush!
As for the "guest worker", they either need to apply for citizenship to this country or go back to their country of origin.
The September 11 atrocity would never have happened had our borders been closed. Simple as that.
Do you think Americans would be treated the same as "guest workers" in other countries? If I was in another country with an expired visa, I'd be immediately deported by customs agents! What's worse is that in some countries, the U.S. embassy couldn't be there for me if my expired visa was seized by foreign customs if I committed a crime on their turf. Some countries don't play around when it comes to foreigners violating their laws. Japan is one of them. Singapore is another.
To: Jorge
No!
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