Posted on 01/04/2004 7:55:31 PM PST by Lead Moderator
Edited on 01/04/2004 8:43:28 PM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]
Hello everyone.
I've been talking to some long time Freepers via email for several weeks (one in particular). His concern was over the immigration threads and how they turn out on Free Republic.
Many times these threads turn into flame wars. There appears to be a lot of pent up hostility that various factions have developed for each other which ends up coming out, over and over, and the result is that the threads turn into a lot of crap. The moderators get hit with dozens of abuse reports over personal attacks and other silliness. Eventually, it becomes more work than is really worthwhile, and the threads get moved to the backroom so we don't have to deal with it.
This is an OK status quo when it occurs just occasionally. But when it happens frequently, it is not OK. That means that there is a problem.
So we are going to try to fix the problem.
There are sincere people on both sides of the debate who have gotten too into the battle that they are no longer being constructive. The goal will be to help them get back on track.
But we have two groups of people who are completely not sincere.
One group is those who really have no other goal other than to try to fracture conservatives and turn them on each other. One group is those who think that those most concerned with immigration are really just bigots and want to shout them down.
The good news is that both of these groups are very, very small. The bad news is that lots of people are firmly convinced that many of those who are just riled up sincere Freepers are actually part of one of these small groups. In other words, a lot of suspicion of motives has come about.
We're going to have to overcome that.
One of us tried something with a topic which had developed a similar problem, the Creation/Evolution threads. We'll give that type of approach a try for the immigration threads.
So here is what is going to happen. Starting tomorrow, when I see an immigration related thread go up, I am going to post immediately a warning that this would be a very bad thread to engage in insulting or flame baiting. When I see someone ignoring the warning, I'll address them personally telling them to knock it off.
What we need those who are serious about the issue to do is to act responsibly during this time. Engage in debate, without the insults. Post arguments, not ad hominems. Post facts, not innuendos. If you don't like someone, figure out a way to not have it get in the way of your postings. If you want to be disagreeable, do so without being needlessly disrespectful and instigative.
What will happen is, over time with this approach, those who are just trying to stir up crap, and those who are unable to help themselves, will stick out like sore thumbs and will get the axe.
And once that happens, then more direct involvement will not be needed, which I think everyone will agree is the preferred way.
So ping those who you know are interested in debating the topic to this thread, so they can see what is coming.
Thanks
1) That the timing of this effort was suspicious.
2) That this person feels the actions taken have shifted the emphasis of the forum from conservative oriented to party oriented.
I wanted to share with you my response:
I am being evenhanded on the matter. There have been those on one side of the issue have been warned about personal attacks and baiting. There have been those on the other side who have been warned about the same.That is all.There has been one suspension, of someone who decided he was going to repost things which had been pulled. He has no one to blame but himself.
There has been one banning, of a person who said that there was no way he was going to abide by the way things are going to be. Once again, it was his choice and if he changes his mind he can mail Jim and his account will be restored.
The timing, you can have whatever suspicions you want. The fact is that for months, someone who is mostly on your side of the issue tried to get me to do more on these threads, hating how they get pulled when they turn into flame wars and how they get backroomed when they turn into flame wars. He would point to examples of baiting. He would point to personal attacks. Sometimes I would point out the things going the other way. Finally, he convinced me and I decided to give this approach a try.
To be honest, I think it is hilarious that some think I had some idea that some policy was coming out of the White House. It is good to be thought of as that well connected, I guess, but it sadly has no basis in reality.
I am going to post my reply on the thread. I won't quote your mail or your name, although I will paraphrase it.
Regards, LM
Censorship works though?
Okay. I'll admit that Hillary Clinton never utters cogent comments and that the Jihad utters a few.
This effort is probably not going to work, based on what I have seen.
When this was tried, successfully, on the Creationism/Evolution threads, there was a significant difference, which was not obvious to me before this started. On those threads, there were vocal leaders on both sides of the issue who were on board with the effort, who helped take on a bit of self-policing and would defend the efforts being made.
I've gotten a few nice mails (and yes, from both sides of the issue) but in the forum I have seen very little effort at self-policing and people on one side telling people on the same side to knock it off when they are getting out of hand, and I have seen very little effort by anyone to counter the allegations being made against me and my staff.
Probably by stating this, I am going to give a boost to the morale of those who are actively trying to ensure we can't get these threads calmed to where reasonable discussions are the norm. That's an acceptable risk in my estimation. Because if this effort fails, we'll go back to what was the status quo a few days ago, where when things were getting too ugly the threads were being yanked or backroomed. The losers there are those who this is a top issue and want to see it discussed, who want to convince others. They are the ones who lose out, but unless they do more to make this effort work, then I am not going to worry myself too much about it.
Regards, LM
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This thread has been pulled.
Pulled on 01/09/2004 3:14:45 PM MST by Admin Moderator, reason:
Pulled.
No pledges to Free Republic so long as Admin Moderators cover up for child murderers.
-archy-/-
I don't think that is an unreasonable request. Policing ourselves is a good practice.
BUMP!
My personal rule is that whoever throws out the first insult or personal attack just lost the debate or argument, it means they ran out of arguments and have to start hurling abuse --- so I kind of like it when someone tries to insult me because then I think I won. No one loses if the argument stays polite and decent.
But just so you know, if someone makes an irrelevant point on a thread and you hit abuse, odds are we will do nothing-- unless the person is doing it regularly. In that case we'll take action.
Thanks, LM
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