Rush Addresses Illegal Alien Issue

Rush Limbaugh Show ^ | January 6, 2004

[sweetliberty]

[Moderator's note: threads regarding immigration issues and border issues have been spiralling out of control for some time on Free Republic. This is going to change. Fair warning: this would be a very poor thread to engage in flame warring, flame baiting, or otherwise being needlessly instigative. If you have not yet read this thread, you may want to before engaging in the debate on this or other similar threads. If there are any questions regarding the new scrutiny of these threads, please take them to that thread rather than cluttering up these threads.

Up until last night, people had been very cooperative with this effort, and for that I was grateful. Last night, I think there must have been a full moon or something, but we'll get that straightened out.

Thanks, and happy Freeping.]

I started this thread because there has been much discussion here about Rush never seeming to address the illegal alien problem. Today he has been talking about it in the context of President Bush's meeting with Vincente Fox and the payment of Social Security benefits to illegals who have paid into the system even though they did so with false documentation.

At the moment he is talking about the increase in black Republican voters, but said he will get back to the illegal alien issue shortly and take calls. I thought there'd be interested FReepers that might be missing it.

[gubamyster]

ping

[Conservative_Nationalist]

I wish someone with the influence of Rush would start speaking out against illegal immigration and the Bush policies that support it. Michael Savage seems to be the only talk radio host who talks about this on a regular basis. This is the most important issue facing this nation yet it is largely ignored by most. Terrorist can't do half the damage illegal immigration is doing to our nation.

[hresources]

I realize there are a lot of strong feelings about the illegal alien issue, but the facts are that a lot of the illegals perform work that native Americans just wont do. Can you imagine what some of your produce prices in the Grocery store would be if we had Native Americans demanding $15.00 per hour to pick lettuce? If we have some way of documenting them as Bush proposes, we will collect taxes on their income (currently, a lot receive cash under the table). Bush is on the right track.

[putupon]

Rush stated that numerous big money contributors to both parties had long term illegal alien servants and employees who would be affected by immigration and social security policies.

[azhenfud]

This one too?

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[Richard Kimball]

Terrorists can also ride into the country in the flow of illegal immigrants.

[Burkeman1]

Off topic- But Rush had a real zinger against Bush today. He was talking about Lieberman's preposterous idea to limit insurance companies profits to 2% a year. Rush asked (paraphrase):

"Where in the Constitution does Lieberman think the federal government can run insurance companies? Where does he thinks he gets the power to interfere in private businesses? Why do these democrats think the solution to every problem is a huge entitlement or governmet interference in the private sector? Who do they think they are? The Bush Administration?"

[Lead Moderator]

Danke.

[jpl]

Can you imagine what some of your produce prices in the Grocery store would be if we had Native Americans demanding $15.00 per hour to pick lettuce?

Instead of paying at the grocery store, you're paying for it through your state and federal tax withholdings, your payroll tax, your state income taxes, etc. etc. Or do you think the health and education and other benefits for these folks are "free"?

[azhenfud]

Those corporations and individuals are the ones needing to be sued into bankruptcy before they bankrupt our nation.

[Conservative_Nationalist]

"I realize there are a lot of strong feelings about the illegal alien issue, but the facts are that a lot of the illegals perform work that native Americans just wont do"

The employers would just have to raise the wages for those jobs. Their would be plenty of AMERICAN workers available if the wages were raised for those jobs. I am not going to support the destruction(Which is exactly what illegal immigration is doing) of this once great nation because employers don't want to pay higher wages and the rest of our government doesn't want to enforce laws(Unless they are stupid laws against American citizens. They have no problem enforcing those). Bush lost my vote with his stupid plan and I suspect he lost many others also.

[DoctorMichael]

##/*/*/*/* Putting my earplugs back in *\*\*\*\##

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Can you imagine what some of your produce prices in the Grocery store would be if we had Native Americans demanding $15.00 per hour to pick lettuce?

You know the part of the state in NY where I live there's few illegal aliens yet, but there's a ton of farms and all the work's getting done. Has been for hundreds of years. Btw these aren't just small family farms but large ones that produce dairy products for the Northeastern region.

So the argument in my experience that we must have illegal aliens or prices will go thru the roof is just not an accurate one.

[azhenfud]

Normal minimum wage for agricultural workers is below the regular minimum wage, or don't they know that?

[reelfoot]

Those elected officials, regardless of party, who refuse to protect the sovereignty of this nation from illegal immigration do not deserve our support. Our culture is being eroded and the only thing the Republicans and Democrats (with the exception of Congressman Tancredo and a few others) seem to be concerned with is to try to pander to the Hispanic communtity for votes and pay off big corporations with low-wage illegal workers. I will not support a federal candidate who will not stand up for meaningful border control.

[putupon]

The lady caller right now must be using my posts for notes!

[Conservative_Nationalist]

Rush just said that many conservatives agree with Bush's plan because they are trying to destroy the democrat party. While that sounds like a good idea is it worth destroying the democrat party of today by becoming the democrat party of yesterday?

[RKV]

Field workers can make $10-15/hour (particularly when working piece rate). I know, because that is what my father-in-law paid several years ago at his vineyard in Fresno County. I worked along side them in the field and know how long and how much (I calculated the paychecks). That is not always the rate (for instance when farmers want the workers to be slow an careful they pay by the hour). For myself, I would rather pay more for food and less in taxes, which would be the case if illegals were expelled (supply of labor goes down, price goes up).

[DoctorMichael]

"...Bush is on the right track..."

I am always willing to listen to both sides of an issue. Therefore, I understand what you are saying.

However, what is galling to me is that the issue is being raised with Vicente Fox NOT the American People.

I really wish there would be discussion and debate on this stuff before he goes overseas with a 'package' to some clown from a corrupt Narco-Republic and then comes home and rams it through the Congress.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Normal minimum wage for agricultural workers is below the regular minimum wage, or don't they know that?

Yes it is, and many of these farms rely on the labor of country kids who are used to that type of work. And even if they couldn't find the labor, there would be attempts to further mechanize as much as possible.

It's amazing to me how far some will go to justify illegals being here, as if we can't survive as a nation without them.

[Born Conservative]

[SAMWolf]

The only word that matters in these topics is "ILLEGAL". Enforce the laws!

[azhenfud]

Where's Rush?

I've seen very few conservatives interested in opening debate upon the issue beyond enforcement of the current laws.

What else's he saying?

[Mamzelle]

The GOPers must have trophy wives who can't do their own housework--probably a lot of them in Florida.

[Land of the Free 04]

"Why do these democrats think the solution to every problem is a huge entitlement or governmet interference in the private sector? Who do they think they are? The Bush Administration?"

If Rush turns against W, some bots' heads are going to explode.

[azhenfud]

But what is the minimum wage for Ag workers in your state - the one you must post?

[Reaganwuzthebest]

What's happening is so many people are becoming spoiled from the cheap, illegal labor they forget the days when we did fine without them.

All they have to do is go to those regions of the country where illegals aren't yet and see for themselves how we don't need them.

[Conservative_Nationalist]

Rush was disappointing to me just now. He basically defended Bush's policy while saying he didn't really agree with it. I think a lot of these conservative talk show host were hit by surprise with the policies of Bush. Now they are all optimistic about Bush destroying the democrat party and then turning into his "true" conservative self. I have been guilty of being too optimistic of Bush's plans but that's fading fast. The only talk radio host that speaks the truth is Michael Savage. When it comes down to it I agree with him on more issues than I do anyone else in the media.

[Mamzelle]

If Bush does this, I just might write in "Tancredo" come November.

[Mamzelle]

re: He basically defended Bush's policy while saying he didn't really agree with it. )))

Wonder who scrubs Marta's toilets and mows Rush's grass?

[gubamyster]

I realize there are a lot of strong feelings about the illegal alien issue, but the facts are that a lot of the illegals perform work that native Americans just wont do.

This skimpily is not true. Illegals are taking lower wage & entry-level jobs from American citizens, including recent legal immigrants. Are construction, meat packing, auto repair, etc. jobs that Americans won't do? Who did them before the illegals? American citizens won't work for employers who illegally pay below the minimum wage, no benefits & do not pay taxes.

Can you imagine what some of your produce prices in the Grocery store would be if we had Native Americans demanding $15.00 per hour to pick lettuce?

Very little according to this study:

Immigration from Mexico

Among the report’s findings:

• Large-scale immigration from Mexico is a very recent phenomenon. In 1970, the Mexican immigrant population was less than 800,000, compared to nearly 8 million in 2000.

• Almost two-thirds of adult Mexican immigrants have not completed high school, compared to fewer than one in ten natives. Mexican immigrants now account for 22 percent of all high school dropouts in the labor force.

• Though most natives are more skilled and thus do not face significant job competition from Mexican immigrants, this study (consistent with previous research) indicates that the more than 10 million natives who lack a high school degree do face significant job competition from Mexican immigrants.

• By increasing the supply of unskilled labor, Mexican immigration in the 1990s has reduced the wages of workers without a high school education by an estimated 5 percent. The workers affected are already the lowest-paid, comprising a large share of the working poor and those trying to move from welfare to work.

• This reduction in wages for the unskilled has likely reduced prices for consumers by only an estimated .08 to .2 percent in the 1990s. The impact is so small because unskilled labor accounts for only a tiny fraction of total economic output.

Imagine if you did some research into the facts of the cost of illegal immigration.

[hattend]

Up until last night, people had been very cooperative with this effort, and for that I was grateful. Last night, I think there must have been a full moon or something, but we'll get that straightened out.

Look out your window tonight...there was a full moon.

[gubamyster]

skimpily = simply

[KarlInOhio]

Can you imagine what some of your produce prices in the Grocery store would be if we had Native Americans demanding $15.00 per hour to pick lettuce?

How many heads of lettuce can one person pick per hour? I would put the absolute minimum at around 200 (about 3 per minute). So the price for labor picking the lettuce would be 7.5 cents per head or less. That is a tiny price to pay compared to all the problem illegal immigration brings.

[Lady Eileen]

Wonder who scrubs Marta's toilets and mows Rush's grass?

I was thinking the same thing myself when I heard Rush defending Bush's policy.

[azhenfud]

Another thing that happens is wages are kept artificially low because Illegaliens work so cheaply they, in effect, lower the American standard of living or retard the SoL from rising naturally. Why offer raises when an Illegalien will work for half the wage?

They also work so cheaply they end up requiring some form of government assistance, increasing the burden of "entitlement" programs as an overall percentage of the fed's budget. Someone pays and it ain't them....

[hobbes1]

, but the facts are that a lot of the illegals perform work that Native Americans just wont do.

Well, after all, the Native Americans have the Casinos.

[Pro-Bush]

The issue of legalizing Illegal immigrants currently in the United States should not be decided unilaterally by Bush.

This issue needs to be debated in the public and a vote needs to be taken to the people.

If President Bush makes a deal with Vicente Fox allowing Illegals the ability to stay in America legally, he will lose a lot of votes. Rove has got it all wrong if he thinks otherwise.

[navyblue]

Can you imagine what some of your produce prices in the Grocery store would be if we had Native Americans demanding $15.00 per hour to pick lettuce?

Good question! Lemme think here. Do we have folks out in "dem ole cotton fields?"

How do we get all that wheat harvested? And whats the name of that big corporation that makes machines for this purpose?

Funny how nobody thinks about the mega farmers investing in a little capital.

[Aetius]

'The jobs that Americans won't do'
There are several problems with this unproven claim. (1) Who did these jobs from 1922 to about 1970 when immigration levels into the country were reasonable, at about 220,000 per year? The answer is native born Americans (and of course immigrants from the 1880-1920 mass wave and from the moderate years that followed). (2) Who does these jobs now in areas of the country where the immigrant population is low? Again, the answer is native born Americans. (3) But still, yes you are probably right that there are some jobs that Americans just won't do, but then the question that must be asked is why? Mabye some Americans feel it is beneath them, but for others it isn't that they will not do the jobs, it is that they will not do them at the going amount of pay and benefits. That is one thing often left out of this debate, which is that mass immigration works to suppress wages. Its simple supply and demand. If immigration were reduced, then you would see a combination of the following: Employers would raise wages and benefits to attract new workers and keep current ones; employers would find ways to make their workers more productive; and employers would invest in labor-saving technologies. There would be no crisis, the economy would not implode. Even noted late conservative immigration enthusiast Julian Simon said that immigration was not necessary for economic growth.

Now as to your produce example: The price probably would go up, but by how much?. Mabye it would be alot, but maybe it would be moderate. And of course if you think the alleged lower consumer prices and taxes immigrants (legal and illegal) pay justifies mass immigration, you shouldn't forget to weigh that against the extra tax burden they place on Americans. And then of course there are other non-economic matters, like the fact that most immigrants will go on to vote Democratic. Bush cannot out-pander the Democrats for their loyalty, and even if he could the cost would be alot of those conservative white voters whose vote has somehow come to be of lesser moral value in this age where 'diversity is our greatest strength'; so much so that the Supreme Court thinks it justifies racial preferences. And that's another issue; the collision between racial preferences and the mass immigration of people eligible for those preferences. And it should be obvious that the more people we have eligible for these preferences, then the harder it will be to get rid of this type of aff action.

So this is a complicated issue. The economics of immigration are not so clear, but it is almost certainly true that the people who benefit most economically are the immigrants and the people who employ them. Politically, there is almost no reason to be optimistic about the results of mass immigration for conservatives. The demographics of the country are clearly moving in favor of the Democrats. The GOP response is not to do what most Americans want and reduce immigration, but to apparently try to out pander the Democrats. They are doomed to fail, or lose their soul in the process.

But as to Rush Limbaugh: From the few times I've heard him talk about immigration it would be hard to draw a firm conclusion as to his views on this matter. The worst thing I heard him say was one day when he went on some left-wing sounding speech about how he had been contacted early on by 'anti-immigrant' groups wanting to enlist his voice to their cause, but they he wouldn't because immigration was one of the things that made this country great....I say it was left-wing sounding because that is the type of thing liberals often say when debating this subject, as opposed to reasoned points about what policy should be today. It was also left-wing sounding because like liberals Limbaugh used a bogus description of those in favor of reform. Most are not 'anti-immgrant' or even 'anti-immigration.' They are anti-mass immigration. They want levels of immigration reduced, not set to zero forever.

And by the way, most polls show a majority of Americans want the same thing.

[Lady Eileen]

bump

[Cardini]

Unfortunately large numbers of conservatives are turning away from Bush. He has proved to be the most liberal republican president since Lincoln. Like Clinton he has pandered to every special interest group in existance, signed the CRB, has promised to resign the assault weapons ban and now is kissing the filthy feet of illegal criminals.

Even though he did a great job in Iraq there is no way I will ever vote for this liberal again. I am not ashamed that I did but the only thing conservative about Bush is his religious views.

[Cardini]

Unfortunately large numbers of conservatives are turning away from Bush. He has proved to be the most liberal republican president since Lincoln. Like Clinton he has pandered to every special interest group in existance, signed the CRB, has promised to resign the assault weapons ban and now is kissing the filthy feet of illegal criminals.

Even though he did a great job in Iraq there is no way I will ever vote for this liberal again. I am not ashamed that I did but the only thing conservative about Bush is his religious views.

[Libertina]

And I don't believe ROVE should be making national policy.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

If Bush does this, I just might write in "Tancredo" come November.

You and bunch of others, myself included. The country's future is at stake over this issue.

[azhenfud]

"Can you imagine what some of your produce prices in the Grocery store would be if we had Native Americans demanding $15.00 per hour to pick lettuce?"

< said like the "What's in your wallet" commercial > Where does your lettuce come from?

[gubamyster]

You are correct. Since the 1970's there has been very little capital invested in produce harvesting machines while machinery in other areas of farming have advanced rapidly. Money has been spent on Mexicanization rather than mechanization.