Check Out Lou Dobbs on CNN Cable right now – really tearing into the Illegal Alien Amnesty of Bush!

CNN cable Lou Dobbs | 01/07/2003 | brianbaldwin

[E. Pluribus Unum]

In a generation when Whites are a minority will 10% of the Hispanic vote elect many Republicans?

The broken-glass core of the Democrat and Republican Parties don't elect anyone, because they are evenly split.

It is the swing voters who decide elections.

Ignore that fact, and you are doomed to lose elections just like the Republicans did for forty years.

If you would rather pound your chest about "principled leadership" and lose elections, be my guest, just don't whine about it afterwards.

[Krodg]

He's the most conservative man I've ever known but he hated Reagan. He's had a union job all his life and can't see how voting Republican could ever help him.

Ummmm... this makes absolutely zero sense.

What doesn't make sense?? A conservative man could hate Reagan for undermining unions?? A man with a 'union' job could be conservative??

What have Republicans ever offered union emplyees?? Republicans hate unions......and their workers.

[Torie]

Think of it this way. There is an illegal worker market, and a legal worker market. The higher the wage differential between the going rate of the illegal market, and the rate in Mexico and some other places in the third world, but mostly Mexico, the more pressure there is against any dam that the feds might build to keep out the illegal would be workers from coming in. The trick is to narrow the wage differential through a guest worker program, and create incentives for the guest workers to return to their homeland, and/or seek to become legal through regulated channels that are rational, ie through channels that reward those that have worked with a clean record, pay their taxes, and play by the rules.

Putting too much pressure on the dam by creating too large a differential will cause it to collapse. There is no technology available to make a superman dam, other than putting employers who hire illegals in jail in large numbers. None, nada, nothing. Unless employers go to jail, the idea that somehow wage levels will rise high enough to induce legal workers to take the illegal jobs, and that illegals will not be hired off balance sheet is ludicrous, no matter what the rules.

The logical place for debate are the details concerning how the guest worker program will be constructed, so that it does not reward those who are not, and will not in the future play by the rules.

[Missouri]

Yes he is and he hates America and wishes to destoy it

I guess you're better than me

I certainly hope you didn't think I was refering to you in that post. I was refering to the "Mogadishus professor", Nicholas DeGenova. I worry about the professor alot more than you.

since you only want to destroy the non-white part of it right?

You just couldn't wait to pull out the "race card".

[uncbob]

Yeah, right. That's why pat buchanon is President today, isn't it?

In case you can't read he was talking about a DEMOCRAT CANDIDATE

Last time I checked Buchanon was not a democrat

[First_Salute]

Hillary was hanging out in the area yesterday; book signing followed by $500 a plate elbow-rub with Gov. Richardson & Co.

He says that he gets calls almost daily from the other four Democrat contenders.

The ABQ newspaper glowed all over her.

[Exodus22]

"...and you are the one who wants to deport 10 to 18 million people "with no one to replace them in the work force" that is downright STUPID."

Damn right I want them deported and so does every other American CITIZEN who cares about this country...OUR country. Go and try that "with no one to replace them in the work force" on someone else...say all of the black janitors who once made a decent living in Los Angeles who had their jobs stolen by Mexicans...or textile workers in North Carolina who had their jobs stolen by Mexicans...or meat packers in Nebraska who had their jobs stolen by Mexicans...go and say that to them...in their face. While you are at it go and champion illegal aliens to families who have had family members murdered by illegal aliens. Then come back and tell me about it...it should make for very interesting reading plus it will be a mind expanding experience for you.

[NewRomeTacitus]

In order:
Willem Defoe IS the Joker.

Happy2BMe: Dobb's show has surpassed O'Reilly for serious content. He literally bursted from the bonds of money reporting to become one of the sanest moderaters of current issues. Check him out for yourself.

Jim Cane: You are correct, a new substandard is seeking legitimacy where poor Americans are undercut by illegal immigrants willing to work for ridiculously low wages. Legitimate Americans of poor means are having any chances of advancement cut out from under them by a culture raised under comparitively primitive standards. Poor Americans don't live in housing with multiple/extended families, attempt to corner niches of the labor market by treating people not of their culture badly, nor automatically adhere to a system of payoffs and favoritism (corruption).

Zipprah: One has only to look at the aztlan.net web site to see that these "immigrant advocates" are the worst kind of hypocrites. They admire Castro and Arrafat while dreaming of a day where people not of their color or persuasion are licking their boots. They have no place in America. South Africa was the last place that kind of thinking was welcome, but the human race moves on where they will not. Whenever the accusation of racism pops up early in any attempt to address immigration you can bet hard money that the accuser has been schooled to do so by this crowd of secret fascists.

petifour: chickens are too cheap if humans are expected to process them at submininal wages. Anyone who's done that kind of work knows it's flat-out nasty and disease-risky labor, especially in the warehoused, beak-chopping monstrosity it has become. Look toward our ex-President's great financial enabler Tyson for setting these standards.

Happy2BMe: Her real name is Great Sistern. If they want Saddam to talk just start playing tapes of her shows. His English is weak but her strident adenoidal screeching will break him down in short order.

Rome 2000: I chose my name because the hordes are overwhelming us at every level. You don't see the similarity?

Texas Dawg: America is not dependent on any specific faction for it's success. Unity has been the key for that accomplishment. Modern myths like "Diversity" and "Multiculturism" have only led to war and widespread deterioration wherever those myths supplanted the original ideal of setting differences aside for the betterment of the society.

Everybody: Unlike Reagan's attempt this proposal (for that's what it is at this point) does include checks and balances. History harshly points out how our representatives between then and now have consistently failed to justify their constituents support by acceding to the path of least resistance on this subject(compromise with whatever Ted Kennedy is pushing). Look them up and you'll find Ted is the single, cosistant mover of all legislation, addendums and riders that have brought our immigration policy to the "Welcome, Terrorists" mat that it is today. If we were to enforce any definition of "traitor" that man would be frog-marched into a federal facility immediately. I'm not kidding, check his voting record. If you can find it.

[DustyMoment]

Bush has stated that the "Guest Worker" plan is only the first step to granting them full citizenship. He said it, not me. Previous "guest worker" programs such as the Bracero program that was tried in Texas years ago ended in dismal failure because the folks coming over as "guest workers" wouldn't go home when their legitimate time was up. It is a misnomer and sheer marketing spin to label this as a guest worker program. Tom Ridge has further defined the illegals' status after registering for the amnesty (whatever) as a "permanent second-class citizen". CITIZEN, not guest worker. Not illegal immigrant with official documents. Parse the words because this is, after all, politicalspeak. An ACLU lawsuit can upgrade that status to full citizenship in about a nanosecond. Our Constitution doesn't recognize classes of citizens, it recognizes citizens and non-citizens.

The issue is still not one of semantics, however. It is two very distinct issues: the rule of law in America and the value of citizenship. If we want America to be the best nation there is, we aren't going to get there or maintain our status by giving citizenship away. Citizenship that was important enough for you to jump through all of the hoops to obtain, BTW. That is what lies underneath all of this. This plan, has been advocated by Vicente Fox and is being written by John McCain. Remember John McCain? The same McCain of McCain-Feingold fame that eroded our 1st Amendment rights.

McCain doesn't value American citizenship and wants to take an eraser to the borders and just let anyone come here. IF Bush's plan included something about sealing the border after this amnesty plan is enacted, I might get onboard. But sealing the border is the LAST thing that either Bush or Ridge want. Both men are notoriously soft on illegal immigration.

But, America is noted as being a nation operated by the rule of law. LAW, Futureceo31, NOT the rule of man. It has been a distinguishing feature of this nation for more than 200 years. The fact that these people are called "illegal immigrants" tells you something about their respect for our rule of law. By extension of that logic, then, if ignoring the law is beneficial for one segment of our society, think how terrific it's going to be when we ALL decide to ignore the rule of law. If it's good for one, it's good for all.

Instead of calling them illegal immigrants, let's say they are all rapists (it's an example; I'm not impugning their character). 10 million rapists who have been tried and convicted in a court of law and escaped. 10 million convicted rapists all living among us, around our families, wives, sisters, daughters, children. And, one day, out of the blue the president (any president; doesn't have to be Bush) says "Ya know, we can't catch and imprison these 10 million rapists that were tried and convicted and escaped so, if they will just register with us, we will pardon their crime and they can live as free men again." Sound like a deal? Will this make America better? Safer? More law-abiding?

If it's good for one segment of society, it has to be good for all of society. In the 10 years following Reagan's amnesty in 1986, the 3 million illegals upon whom was conferred citizenship proceded to consume $79 Billion worth of social services, healthcare and safety net programs. Services they didn't pay for because they didn't earn enough to pay taxes. At the same time, they have negatively impacted our schools, our taxes and our healthcare systems; costs that are passed on to you and me. Even Reagan admitted afterward that the amnesty plan was a mistake. With Bush's plan, multiply that $79 Billion by 4 and add 25% for inflation and government waste/fraud.

As someone who chose the legal route, I'm glad you're here to help build on the dream of America left to us by our Founders. The difference between you and these illegals is stark, beginning with the route each of you chose to get here. For many illegals, citizenship isn't even a goal. Most Mexicans consider the southwestern US as territory that still belongs to Mexico and they refuse to honor our borders; the borders of a sovereign nation. 10 million illegal immigrants equals an invasion of enormous proportions.

So, we have been invaded by an army of 10 million people whom, you claim, can't be deported and can't hold white collar jobs. Both of your statements are incorrect. There is NOTHING preventing an illegal from holding a white collar job - NOTHING unless it is for a defense contractor. And, there is no reason why they can't be deported. We have massive books of immigration law that contradict that statement. They don't belong here, they have no right to be here and they should be sent home; NOT given a prize for breaking our laws.

[Texas_Dawg]

What doesn't make sense?? A conservative man could hate Reagan for undermining unions??

Yes. Exactly that.

A man with a 'union' job could be conservative??

Yes.

What have Republicans ever offered union emplyees??

Economic freedom. Capitalism.

Republicans hate unions

Hear, hear. Let's have more of it too.

[snopercod]

Even Shawn Hannity was sucking up to Hillary on H&C last night.

I had turned on that show hoping to hear Shawn rip into Bush for the illegal alien plan. But he didn't. It was Dean...Dean...Dean for an hour.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

Spidey looks like he might be heading to Toronto to get married soon.

[Jim Cane]

I had turned on that show hoping to hear Shawn rip into Bush for the illegal alien plan. But he didn't. It was Dean...Dean...Dean for an hour.

Hannity is as dumb as a stump. He's probably waiting for more talking points from Rove.

Now Michelle Malkin and George Will are capable of formulating their own opinions. Shawn? No.

[snopercod]

I disagree with your assessment of Hannity, but last night he just pretty much sat on his thumb for an hour. I was disappointed.

[citizen]

You got me wrong on this. I want to deport them all, not legalize them.

Save the American jobs for Americans and those legally awaiting citizenship.

[SCalGal]

And, there is no reason why they can't be deported. We have massive books of immigration law that contradict that statement. They don't belong here, they have no right to be here and they should be sent home; NOT given a prize for breaking our laws.

Exactly right. Either we are a nation of laws or we aren't. May God help us if we aren't.

[Texas_Dawg]

Save the American jobs for Americans and those legally awaiting citizenship.

So would you support deporting all 10 million of them (if we could do this), and then letting 20 million (or whatever number the American government working with American businesses determines would be useful) immigrate legally? Or is there something a little deeper going on here?

[4.1O dana super trac pak]

Thanks for the pings.

TANCREDO is on Dobbs tonight.

[Missouri]

TANCREDO is on Dobbs tonight.

I just come home right before he came on. He certainly wasn't on very long.

[4.1O dana super trac pak]

Well, I guess I missed it too! New illegal poll up on Dobbs site now.