The Bush Proposal (Interesting article by Linda Chavez on the Immigration Proposal)

Town Hall ^ | Jan 8, 2004 | Linda Chavez

[PhiKapMom]

The Bush proposal

Linda Chavez

January 8, 2004

President Bush announced a sweeping new immigration reform proposal this week that could become a hot-button issue in the November election. For months, insiders have hinted that the president would propose a new guest worker program aimed at allowing more foreign workers into the country on a temporary basis. Widely favored by the American business community, a guest worker program would allow employers to fill jobs in industries that routinely experience shortages of workers willing to do the often difficult, dangerous jobs Americans shun -- at least at wages that allow employers to remain in business.

But the guest worker provisions won't be the most controversial part of the administration's new proposal. Although some groups that want to limit immigration altogether -- such as the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) -- oppose guest worker plans, even such staunch restrictionists as Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO) are on record supporting the idea of guest workers. The real battle will be over what to do with those millions of illegal aliens who are already here.

Some 8-12 million illegal aliens reside in the United States now -- up three- or four-fold from a decade ago. An estimated 60 percent of these are from Mexico alone, and it is no accident that the Bush plan was announced in anticipation of the president's meeting with his Mexican counterpart, President Vicente Fox, next week. The White House announced less than a week before the Fox meeting that millions of illegal aliens from Mexico and elsewhere will be allowed, over time, to earn legal status in the U.S., so long as they have been working continuously, paid taxes and not broken other laws. The plan will impose some penalties on these workers -- most likely fines similar to those proposed in legislation sponsored by Republican Representatives Jeff Flake and Jim Kolbe and Senator John McCain, all from Arizona.

These proposals may not offer perfect justice -- who can blame those who resent rewarding "line jumpers" with legal status while millions of other would-be immigrants wait patiently to enter the country legally. But "earned legalization" is probably the best solution to a largely intractable problem. There is no way that the United States can find and deport 8-12 million illegal aliens in this country, and even if we could, we would do more harm than good.

The American economy depends on these workers, who, along with legal immigrants, contributed significantly to the economic boon of the 1990s. If FAIR could wave a magic wand and make these illegal aliens disappear overnight, the rest of us would suffer by having to pay more for everything from the food we put on the table to the houses in which we live. Our office buildings wouldn't get cleaned, our crops wouldn't get picked, our meat wouldn't get processed, nor our tables cleaned when we go out to eat.

Sure, we could double wages to attract American-born workers to some of these jobs, but at even twice the salary it would be difficult to fill the nastiest of these tasks, like processing poultry. But why would we want American workers, who we've spent trillions of dollars educating for 13 or 14 years, on average, to perform jobs that require only the most minimal skills? Even if we got rid of all illegal aliens in the U.S., these jobs would likely go to foreign workers, like it or not.

What sense does it make to insist that we get rid of the very people doing these jobs now in order to make way for other foreign workers to take them under a new guest worker plan? It makes a lot more sense to figure out how to get those illegal aliens already employed at these jobs to come in from the shadows and become part of the legal system. They should pay a penalty for having broken the law in the first place by sneaking into the country or overstaying their visas, but it is better for all of us if they earn their way toward legal status than remain in the illegal netherworld where they now hide.

Linda Chavez is President of the Center for Equal Opportunity, a Townhall.com member organization.

[KantianBurke]

I don't pretend to know what the best course of action is regarding the loss of white collar jobs. However inundating this country with MILLIONS of low skilled workers will most certainly hurt many middle to lower class American CITIZENS who do not have the education for University graduate jobs.

[kellynla]

The San Diego Union Tribune:

Illegal immigrants cost the taxpayers $20 billion every year.

34 percent of legal Mexican immigrants are on welfare right now.

25 percent of illegals are as well.

This number will rise with the amnesty.

Most illegals are willing to work hard, but as the numbers prove, millions are not.

[Texas Federalist]

What would be the cost of having the US government assume all responsibilities for the upbringing of those US citizens, born on US soil, were their parents to be deported?

If you are born on US soil, you are a US citizen.

[Texas Federalist]

There is now [sic] way this country will deport 12 million people. Use your freakin' heads.

It doesn't matter how many illegals we are able to deport. We do not need to create an incentive for more to come here. Do you not think that more illegals will flood over when they realize our pattern of giving amnesty every 10 years or so?

[Kevin Curry]

If [we] could wave a magic wand and make [them] disappear overnight, the rest of us would suffer by having to pay more for everything from the food we put on the table to the houses in which we live. Our office buildings wouldn't get cleaned, our crops wouldn't get picked, our meat wouldn't get processed, nor our tables cleaned when we go out to eat.

And that is why, Mr. Lincoln, the south simply cannot tolerate--nor can this nation tolerate--the elimination of slavery at this point in time.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

turns over our immigration policy to employers.

Having immigration in the hands of the employers is nothing new. How many CEO's are going to be arrested because an illegal alien works at Walmart or Lowes?

They come here for the work. It is best to use the system to our advantage.

There already is an underground railroad! The employers know how to get the immigrants here to work. That has never been a problem.

This is not a Border Plan, nor is it a National Security plan... this plan deals with the immigrants who are already here.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

But America always will need skilled and unskilled labor. The university jobs are not the ones that propel the nation. Obviously there are enough jobs, otherwise why would the immigrants be filling the job placements? Why do the corporations hire them?

[Brian Allen]

<< There is no way that the United States can find and deport 8-12 million illegal aliens in this country, and even if we could, we would do more harm than good. >>

What absolute BS. Chavez had better sit this one out.

We can and must enforce our nation's laws and we can and must round up these felons and their spawn and we can and must deport them all.

Better that we accept and absorb the consequences of righting this awful criminal-alien invasion now, than cause our children and our grandchildren to have been denied our nation's Rule of Law -- and with it the civilization we have long vanguarded and must forever guard.

[okie01]

"But these workers aren't going to be in the Social Security system. Once they have their legal status, they must be paid at least minimum wage."

Exactly.

"At that point, these newly legalized illegals will be undercut by a new wave of illegals, who will work for less than minimum wage. And we're back to square one."

Then, being without a job to justify their work permit, they'll have to go home, won't they?

Eventually, Bush's program depends upon enforcement of a.) minimum wage laws and b.) legal entry.

But it's not unrealistic to think that such can be done. Because, prior to 1967, much the same "guest worker" policy was in force -- the so-called bracero program. It's noteworthy that, while the bracero program existed, there was no illegal immigration problem.

Indeed, the problem didn't begin to occur until the LBJ administration cancelled the bracero program at the behest of Cesar Chavez and his United Farm Workers union.

[TruthNtegrity]

If the house cost more because we hired Americans at a fair wage, then I'd pay it.

I refused to allow a crew from a roofing company who could not produce any ID to do the work. It cost me $1000 more to do the roof, but I did not contribute to the underground of illegals working for construction companies around here.

Integrity has a price. We have the lowest cost vegetables and fruits in the world. I am still paying the same price for fruit and vegetables except for oranges and grapefruit, that I paid when I first moved into my own apartment 30 years ago. Don't you think it's time for the cost of this produce to go up so that American kids can have as their first job, picking fruit for a local grower?

If Greenspan hadn't put so much pressure on companies not to raise prices for "fear of inflation" which is the Boogeyman to Greenie, we wouldn't have farmers using illegals to keep the costs down and we wouldn't have had Silicon Valley, CA and the Beltway Bandits, No. VA, resorting to H-1B's to keep the costs down. Are you aware that a programmer's career ends at 35, because at that point, his company can hire two H-1B's for his salary? And for engineers, the end of his career is 40. Most people have no idea how many unemployed in this Country are our programmers and engineers.

There is a price to pay for everything. In order to keep jobs for Americans, we need to stop the illegal aliens from working for so little that they drop the wages paid for every job, so that Americans are forced out of their own farms and industries. What is true is that the illegals work for so little, live in houses of 15 at a time, so they can send money back to relatives in Mexico, and they force the payscale downward.

With accountability, first of all, we get them to pay taxes on their earnings. Second, we can track them (although I sure hope the programmers they hire to do that programming are not H-1B's as they really are not good programmers,) and that we bring these illegals out of the shadows. Being able to track them is not a bad idea. We are starting to get a handle on the illegal alien problem by starting where we are, which is in some heckuva pickle.

I believe that ultimately, control of our borders has to be addressed, and that is where the President is heading. You just can't correct years of ignoring the problem by rounding up and deporting 8-10 million of them in one full swoop. But forcing them to come out of the underground is sure a start.

TNT

[okie01]

"Most illegals are willing to work hard, but as the numbers prove, millions are not."

But it is the underlying premise of Bush's program that those without jobs will be denied entry. Or, if they are already here, the opportunity to stay.

Illegals on welfare don't qualify.

[PhiKapMom]

Very well stated. My biggest plus for the President in all of this is that at least a dialog has been opened and we are being forced to not only see the problem but face the reality that something needs to be done.

I had no idea we had that many illegals in this Country. We need to do something to stop the influx of any more into this Country. Fox could take a big step foward in confronting his own problem which is lack of jobs and do something that about that by ending corruption and graft throughout Mexico. Seems to me he is not holding up his part of the deal by making living conditions better for his own people so they will stay home.

This problem goes back a lot farther than Pres Bush which makes the attacks on him seem petty when what he has done is a proposal only. Up to Congress to fine tune so people should be sending their ideas to their Representatives in Congress along with their complaints.

If the people on here read the DemocRAT comments about this Immigration proposal, they may want to step back for a minute and realize that Pres Bush is opening up the dialog but the Dems want immediate amnesty which leads to citizenship and "voting" for illegals. Huge difference.

[KantianBurke]

The business community is wetting themselves over this proposal because if the labor pool is expanded with millions of low skilled workers, their labor cost will correspondingly drop as all those workers, including many laid off highly taxed white collar folks, fight to get what's open. This is bad for any number of reasons with the destruction of the middle class being most prominent.

[kabar]

Under the circumstances, bringing, say, six million more workers into the Social Security system is not a bad idea.

If we sign a totalization agreement with Mexico, there will be an outflow of funds from Social Security. We already have hundreds of thousands of social security recipients living outside the US. It is also more difficult to uncover fraud overseas. Many recipients are dead for many years, but their relatives continue to receive their social security checks. Our Consular personnel aren't equipped to monitor and control this aspect of the system.

[PhiKapMom]

Thanks for posting the info about prior to 1967. I knew I read that last night and I couldn't remember where.

[okie01]

"It is also more difficult to uncover fraud overseas."

It argues for Social Security reform, then, doesn't it?

Yet another idea whose time has come...

[Alberta's Child]

This does not have to deport 12 million people in order to enforce its immigration laws. Instead, it only needs to follow a few simple steps, all of which are aimed at reinforcing the notion that these people have no legitimate status in this country:

1. Any illegal immigrant who is arrested for a crime must automatically be charged with violating this country's immigration laws. Even if they are acquitted of the original charge that prompted their arrest, they should be deported.

2. No illegal immigrant can file a civil suit in the United States. In addition, any illegal immigrant who is involved in a civil suit as a defendant (if they are involved in a car accident, for example) must automatically forfeit any assets they have to the plaintiff in the case -- after which they will be subject to prosecution under the second part of Item #1.

3. Any illegal alien who is charged with multiple violent crimes will not be treated as a violent criminal in the United States court system. Instead, he or she will be considered a foreign combatant and subject to a U.S. military tribunal. Any nation that decides to "claim" this prisoner of war will first have to forfeit $1 million to the U.S. to compensate this country for its troubles. If no nation wished to "claim" this prisoner of war, he or she will be returned to their nation of origin via a U.S. military aircraft -- and dropped there from an elevation of 30,000 feet.

NOTE: Item #3 is the most pertinent, for it illustrates the real problem with the second sniper case. The problem wasn't that Lee Malvo was spared the death penalty -- the problem was that as an illegal alien he should never have been sitting in a U.S. court room in the first place. Someone who enters this country illegally and goes on a shooting spree is not a criminal -- he a f#cking invader.

[moondoggie]

It's "because" we consumers insist on paying cheaper prices for those things we want or need that Corps are turning to cheap labor to produce those goods.

If we insist that those manufacturing jobs being lost be brought back to America or be given back to American workers...then we all need to be prepared to pay higher prices for everything we consume.

It's obvious from the comments that no American worker is going to work for the same wages as a foreigner.

With all the new technologies being developed, the job market is ever-changing.

Workers have to be prepared to adapt or be left behind.

It's the price we pay for progress in a free market system....

A double-edged sword, indeed!

[PhiKapMom]

My first reaction to that is to take every last illegal on welfare and ship them back to Mexico! Why are illegals getting welfare?

[deport]

This problem goes back a lot farther than Pres Bush

---

Yep..... Going on well before President Reagan granted the amnesty of the mid 80s...... It hasn't slowed one bit it seems....... So I don't pay much attention to the ones blaming President Bush. Everyone needs a dog to kick....

The key is jobs..... control the employment process and you can control much of the immigration levels...