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Vile, Vile Pedophile Is child molesting a sickness or a crime?
slate ^ | 1-8-2004 | Dahlia Lithwick

Posted on 01/09/2004 6:16:20 PM PST by Hillary's Lovely Legs

Again, and for all the wrong reasons, we can't take our eyes off Michael Jackson. Whether or not the allegations are substantiated, the question is in the air: Is pedophilia a disease to be treated, or a crime to be punished? Are people who seduce minors sick or evil? Our current legal and medical systems blur both views. We call for the most draconian punishments (life imprisonment, castration, permanent exile) precisely because we view these acts as morally heinous, yet also driven by uncontrollable biological urges.

If sex with children is truly the product of freely made moral choices, then we should deal with it through the criminal justice system. But if it is a genetically over-determined impulse, an uncontrollable urge nestled in our DNA, then punishing pedophiles must be morally wrong. As science—and culture—increasingly medicalizes bad behavior, finding a neurological component to everything from alcoholism to youth violence, we run the parallel risks of either absolving everyone for everything, or punishing "criminals" who are no guiltier than cancer patients.

What science has revealed about the moral/medical roots of pedophiles is, of course, ambiguous. What is clear is that the binary choice laid out above is an oversimplification. The medical community, which started to view pedophilia as a disease rather than a crime in the 19th century, has amassed evidence that at least some violent and antisocial behaviors have genetic links and signposts. But researchers have been unable to isolate a biological cause for pedophilia, or even to agree on a personality profile. Not to mention the terrific confusion within the medical community in defining what this "disease" really involves. Until a few years ago, for example, the DSM-IV—the Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders—defined pedophilia as a disease only if the sufferer's "fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning." In other words, a non-impaired, remorseless pedophile was apparently perfectly healthy.

Advocates of the "disease" school say pedophilia is often the product of uncontrollable impulses that seem to respond to treatment (including castration, both surgical and chemical) particularly in conjunction with monitoring and behavioral therapy. This raises at least a possibility not associated with car thieves and insider traders: That small tweaks to one's brain chemistry may neutralize the impulse to commit more crimes. And if that is the case, they contend, shouldn't we be treating rather than punishing? Can we really call ourselves a just society if we are jailing folks for their neurochemical profile? In a thoughtful essay in Reason, Thomas Szasz urges that pedophilia is ultimately still a moral failure regardless of its biological roots: "Bibliophilia means the excessive love of books. It does not mean stealing books from libraries. Pedophilia means the excessive (sexual) love of children. It does not mean having sex with them." The crime, he argues, is not the psychological impulse, but the willingness to give in to it. But this conclusion assumes an answer that science is still uncertain about: whether for some pedophiles, the impulse to molest has become a pathology. If that is the case, pedophiles can't have the criminal intent necessary to want to commit a crime, and that mens rea is the cornerstone of our criminal law.

Assume, for a moment, that we are sophisticated enough to embrace this ambiguity, to accept the likelihood that the reality is complicated, and that both chemistry and morality are at work in the creation of a sexual predator. Studies by Stanford University neuroscientist Robert Sapolsky suggest that mental illness really falls along a continuum—that criminals are not "sick" or "evil" but some intricate combination of both. What, then, is the moral and proper approach to their acts?

In 1987, Robert Wright explored this choice/illness dichotomy as it related to alcoholism in the New Republic. Wright's ultimate conclusion was that it is a mistake to label a behavior—even a behavior with some biological and genetic determinants—a "disease" because it ultimately means "giv[ing] up on the concept of volition altogether." According to Wright, since alcoholism is the product of a complicated moral soup of environmental and biological factors, since biology may play a role, but not the only, or even predominant role, in these behaviors, we are better off holding people responsible for their actions than not. Otherwise, he argues, "things fall apart."

This "things fall apart" approach has its attractions. It suggests that in a world of increasing causal complexity, morality must remain all the more unequivocal. The question, then, is whether this pragmatic solution is also the ethical one as the stakes rise. The problem is that pedophilia, unlike alcoholism, has one real and tangible victim for every incident. If alcoholics damaged another person's life with every drink, the parallel might hold. But if statistics from the National Institute of Mental Health are right, and the average molester of boys will have 150 victims before apprehension, then the social costs of a single incident are astronomical.

If the repercussions of the act argue for holding the perpetrators morally responsible, regardless of their level of agency, then the seriousness of the punishment pulls in the other direction. Holding alcoholics morally responsible for their actions has predominantly insurance and employment consequences. Holding a child molester responsible for his actions means a lifetime of incarceration or of monitoring, unemployment, and shaming. Offender registries are certainly an alternative to other forms of vigilantism, but the practical effect is a whole subclass of offenders with nowhere to live or work. If science someday proves us wrong, and pedophiles are wholly victims of their own biology, we will have victimized them twice and called it justice.

There are, it's generally agreed, four basic rationales for punishment: revenge, rehabilitation, deterrence, and incapacitation. If we accept the mixed causation theory—that pedophilia is part disease and part crime, then almost none of these rationales are served. Lifetime recidivism rates show that "rehabilitation" alone has not been very effective for sex offenders, and we know that deterrence is unlikely when most offenders are able to "get away with" multiple acts before apprehension. Revenge makes sense only where rational choices led to the commission of the crime, which is in doubt when one's neurochemistry may be running the show. Which leaves only incapacitation as the reason for punishing pedophiles.

Now, don't knock incapacitation. A lifetime of involuntary confinement was a good idea for carriers of the Black Plague, who were guilty of no moral failures at all. But this raises the practical, financial component of imposing complete moral responsibility on pedophiles. Our jails are teeming with sex offenders; and knowing what we do about recidivism rates for pedophiles (recent studies show that they are lower than previously believed in the short-term, but still hovering at 50 percent over a 25-year "career") we must choose between lifetime involuntary confinement, or the cost of ongoing monitoring. Due to prison overcrowding, child molesters are released each day into communities that no longer care whether pedophiles are sick or evil, so long as we throw away the key.

The appeal of the crime-punishment model is that it can tailor the punishment to the crime. A one-time molester is as sick as a serial predator under the disease theory. But the attraction of the disease model is that it assumes both that there is a cure, and that the perpetrators wish to be cured. There is a danger to assuming the latter is true. It's been the basis for the states who adopted mandatory civil-commitment laws, following the Supreme Court's holding in 1997's Kansas v. Hendricks that the most dangerous child molesters can be held involuntarily, after their sentences are served, so long as they're receiving treatment. The problem is that often the treatment they receive is not sufficient or effective. But since this is "treatment" and not "punishment" neither the public nor the Constitution is offended, says the court. The danger of the "treatment" model is the danger posed to a society that has sedated and medicated an entire population into a law-abiding stupor. But the crime/punishment model is similarly hopeless. The promise of an ever-growing number of pedophiles either languishing in jails we cannot afford, or using jails for sleepovers between crimes is, quite possibly, a worse nightmare than the "treatment" option. Perhaps the best solution to a problem with hybrid causation is a hybrid solution: Studies generally show that treatment is better than no treatment, and it's hardly coddling criminals to institute a program of close supervision, drug therapy, and counseling. If science is proved even 10 percent right and nature has some hand in creating a pedophile, lifelong imprisonment solves only one immediate problem—warehousing dangerous citizens. But it raises a more immediate problem—we may be punishing sick people who could have been helped.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: disorders; dsmiv; homosexualagenda; jackophile; jackophilia; mentalillness; pedophilia; psychology; wackojacko
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody
This is an example of the sort of stupidity that happens when people don't believe in Original Sin try to figure out moral responsibility.

"It's not his fault for raping children. After all, he really loves raping children, and there might be some small genetic component."

41 posted on 01/09/2004 11:37:17 PM PST by A.J.Armitage (http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
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To: PhilDragoo; Tamsey; MeeknMing; potlatch; nopardons; ntnychik; onyx





42 posted on 01/10/2004 12:26:58 AM PST by autoresponder (SLICK http://0access.tripod.com/legacy.html REFRESH JUKEBOX: http://00access.tripod.com/slick.html)
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To: PhilDragoo; autoresponder; Tamsey; Hillary's Lovely Legs; Happy2BMe; *Homosexual Agenda
Amazing what Google Search can bring up ...

http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/022002/pedophile.html

[February 2002]

I've served my prison sentence and I'm in treatment, but the courts won't set me free. I cost taxpayers $110,000 a year, but I hope to be out soon. Can I move into your neighborhood?

by Pegi Taylor

On a warm morning in March 1989, 13-year-old Jack was riding his bicycle through the Maple Aire Trailer Court in Reedsburg, Wisconsin. He approached a stop sign at the same time as 19-year-old Randy Kellner. Cruising on his 10-speed, the 6-foot-2 Kellner often came to watch Jack and other boys from the area play baseball at the west end of the trailer park.

"Do you want to come over to my house to watch some TV?" Kellner asked.

"Sure," said Jack.

They pedaled back to the sky-blue-and-white trailer home where Kellner lived with his mom and stepfather. After watching TV for a few minutes, Kellner asked the boy if he wanted to listen to some country music, and Jack followed him into a bedroom just behind the combined kitchen and living room. They listened to a Kenny Rogers tape and then Kellner offered to show Jack some wrestling moves. When Jack nodded, Kellner warned, "Don't take this personal; these are classified wrestling moves."

Click here for the entire article


43 posted on 01/10/2004 6:15:06 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Howie Dean in the South !!: http://Richard.Meek.home.comcast.net/IowaRatsLastMealNewDeal.JPG)
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To: PhilDragoo; autoresponder; Tamsey; Hillary's Lovely Legs; Happy2BMe; *Homosexual Agenda
Whoops ! Forgot to complete the link, sorry ...

Google Search


44 posted on 01/10/2004 6:17:52 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Howie Dean in the South !!: http://Richard.Meek.home.comcast.net/IowaRatsLastMealNewDeal.JPG)
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To: yall
Pretty ugly, folks ...

45 posted on 01/10/2004 6:20:59 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Howie Dean in the South !!: http://Richard.Meek.home.comcast.net/IowaRatsLastMealNewDeal.JPG)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
But this raises the practical, financial component of imposing complete moral responsibility on pedophiles. Our jails are teeming with sex offenders; and knowing what we do about recidivism rates for pedophiles (recent studies show that they are lower than previously believed in the short-term, but still hovering at 50 percent over a 25-year "career") we must choose between lifetime involuntary confinement, or the cost of ongoing monitoring

She left out the most important, practical and fiscally responsible alternative.


46 posted on 01/10/2004 6:25:40 AM PST by Jim Noble
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To: Prime Choice
THERE was a time when this kind of an article would have been recieved by none in the medical community ,now they just discuss away, and yes in ten years it will be declared a lifestyle ,and anybody who objects will be shot down just imagine thirty years ago when being a gay was considered a perversion and it was, I dont know how gays can say it is a normal lifestyle when the act itself of anal sex is a very sickening.
47 posted on 01/10/2004 7:35:30 AM PST by douglas1 (i)
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To: Tamsey
Actually castration may work almost as well as the Smith and Wesson... I'm fine with that, too ;-)

Kinda sad to say that neither castration nor emasculation does much to deter a pedophile. If you mean to deprive them of the "weapons of their evil ways," then you may as well include cutting off their fingers and cutting out their tongues.

Evil of that caliber is never limited to one attack style. That's just one of those cold realities.

I recommend the enriched lead treatment regimen. Best when delivered orally.

48 posted on 01/10/2004 10:28:01 AM PST by Prime Choice (Americans are a spiritual people. We're happy to help members of al Qaeda meet God.)
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To: Prime Choice
Ahhh, you misunderstood. I worked in the Criminal Justice field in an area relating to pedophiles and child predation.

The castration is not to remove "equipment", it is to remove fuel. They still have a sexual desire for children, but the urge to act on those desires gets stronger in relation to their level of testosterone. Castration lowers the level of testosterone and they are much less likely to touch or harm a child. Chemical castration works, also, but the pedophile needs to take female hormones to counteract the testosterone (monthly doses, I think). If they don't come in for their appointment, they go back to normal levels and their previously uncontrollable urge to commit a sexual act on a child.

My preference would be 15 years plus chemical or physical castration for first offense, life sentence for a later offense after being released. There is no CURE, just management.


49 posted on 01/10/2004 2:09:56 PM PST by Tamzee (EARTH FIRST!!! We'll stripmine the other planets later...)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
How about trying to trying to normalize child molestation? Is that a sickness, or a crime?
50 posted on 01/10/2004 2:23:49 PM PST by Sofa King (-I am Sofa King- tired of liberal BS! http://www.angelfire.com/art2/sofaking/index.html)
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To: Salamander
You're welcome.

We all have to do what we can to prevent this from becoming just another "lifestyle choice".

That article from SLATE shows that the NAMBLA propagandists are influencing some people.

Whenever and wherever we see this evil, we must speak up and act out against it.
51 posted on 01/10/2004 3:28:00 PM PST by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
....."Sickness or Crime?.....

Both.

Cut out the cancerous tissue from society's body and throw it in the trash.

52 posted on 01/10/2004 3:31:07 PM PST by DoctorMichael (Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it.)
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To: autoresponder
That's a new one!! I found a wig-wam, wanna shoot at it??
53 posted on 01/10/2004 8:41:38 PM PST by potlatch (Whenever I feel 'blue', I start breathing again.)
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To: Palladin
First you'll have to convince individual families to break the "shameful secret" syndrome.
Kids have these evil things done to them and a LOT of times, the parents retreat into denial, or even worse, "blame" the child.
You cannot imagine to what lengths some parents will go to prevent a family "scene".
My own "weird uncle", to this day, is a much loved part of the family while I am the "blacksheep" because I refuse to attend family functions and act the part of hypocrite by smiling into his face.
They know what he is but "forget" it in order to keep the peace and spare my aunt any pain.
I am not his only victim.
At least one other cousin suffered his vile affections and I doubt either of us were his first or last since his "routine" was honed to an art.
God only knows how many other children/adult survivors are living this same silenced "family sacrificial lamb" existence, right now.
At a tragically early age, kids must be drilled to report *any* inappropriate physical contact to an adult and not necessarily a family member either, since "the family" "best interests" may conflict with the welfare of the child.
Though they may be too young to understand, they must be taught what the pedophile's "methods" are, including threats of harm to themselves, parents or pets, threats that the victim will be not believed/blamed/unloved if they tell.
Children must be trained to know the difference between "familial love" and a pedophile's lust.
Children naturally seek to please the adults in their lives and it's tragically too often to their own destruction.

It is truly a sin that any little kid's mind must be forced to grasp all that before it's too late, but it's become a cruel reality.

The other thing that must be done is impose the harshest penalties possible for offenders *without* all the usual "sick/disturbed/victimhood" legal psychobabble entering the mix.

They know -exactly- what they are doing and I am weary of hearing "oh, poor so-and-so was abused himself so he can't help it".

That is pure BS.
They "enjoy" it and they do not stop until they stop breathing.
Groups like "NAMBLA" thrive because some parents would rather clam up and keep the peace than speak out as they should and risk a family meltdown.


This is a terrible and depressing post, I know.
It was incredibly hard for me to write.
Only those who know whereof I speak can truly appreciate what it took to say this in "public".

Please forgive me for "bumming you out" but shedding light on the subject via firsthand account is more valuable as a catalyst for initiating change than all the "studies" ever done.

Think of it as a rebuttal to any freak who'd say that "children are not *really* harmed by sexual contact".

Oh, yes they are.
And it never, ever "heals".








54 posted on 01/10/2004 10:52:00 PM PST by Salamander
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To: Salamander
That was an excellent post. You gave much good advice to those who will read here.

I am so sorry that you were victimized by a vile pedophile, and a relative, no less!

Yes, these creatures have many manipulative ways of wheedling themselves into families and then taking advantage of the most vulnerable--the children.

This was the Modus Operandi of many a Catholic priest to "get in" with a family with his desired targets, boys or girls, and win the trust of the parents. I've read many of these stories on the SNAP website. If the children told on "Father", the parents would not believe them and tell them they were blaspheming.

Poor kids! I'm glad that at long last so many of these victims are being avenged, and getting large settlements from the Church.
55 posted on 01/11/2004 11:20:15 AM PST by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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