Posted on 01/23/2004 4:37:58 PM PST by Beck_isright
I never claimed to "accept" it. I claimed it courageous of Bush to come forward with what I feel is a sweeping start toward coming to grips with a sweeping problem.
In disagreement with the central premises of the arguments in you link, it's difficult for me to see how that philosophical outlook is applicable to a systematic approach to a solution involving at least logarithmically increasing millions (which, incidentally I did not see therein either).
(We should thank God we're dealing with predominantly Judeo-Christians here, and not Muslims as in Europe, so that at least our basic morals and values have a common conrnerstone, and that these might ultimately be incorporated into our long term reigning in of this problem.)
I'd yet like W's formula hashed out in Congress a little, in the spirit of what even I might impress upon some members, if my approach here holds up...which I feel so far it's doing fairly well.
Best to You and Your, always.
The common values, the descendants of those settlers--including those who abandoned land in Europe, either because they were driven out for religious reasons, or simply could not inherit because of the laws of inheritance, or whatever--the common values they developed, involved a level of individual responsibility and self-reliance, found in very few other places on this earth, at any time. The composite of this produced both the characteristics of our public documents and papers (such as the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, The Federalis Papers, etc..) and the attitudes which supported them and the values inherent therein. That composite also, set the stage for the extraordinary success that followed.
None of that is the slightest justification for allowing any wholesale new immigration, not consistent with the ethnic values of the creators of America, into an already rather crowded sub-continent. (Sure, there are great open spaces still. But neither the old settler families, the descendants of the immigrants who followed (such as this Ohioan), or any of those sneaking over the border, plan to locate new population centers on mountainsides, in the desert, or in various other places that have never been so used.)
The new arrivals--including the illegals--are swarming into already over-crowded areas, where they are negatively impacting the traditional American lifestyle.
I wish the Mexican people all the best. I would not support any future American design on any of their remaining land. Common sense would dictate friendship with our Southern neighbor. And common sense would also dictate Mexico for the Mexicans and America for the Americans.
William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site
I am not quite sure what you mean by this paragraph. I understand that you disagree with some of my premises, but you do not argue that difference. Instead you throw out a mathematic concept, which has nothing to do with the ethnic realities, only the dynamic of the problem.
The fact that there is a veritable flood across the Southern border, only makes it more imperative that that flood be stopped. The idea that this is merely a peaceful invasion, does not make it less an invasion. And the fact that the invaders seek jobs, not conscious conquest, does not change either the immediate impact upon our society and its social institutions and customs, nor the long term influence that must surely follow.
Just in the mere tide, there is a clear and immediate problem. Gandhi basically discouraged the British very effectively, without firing a shot, by marshalling great mobs of people. It was a test of the will. And the British basically yielded because to have crushed the vast horde of Hindu followers of Gandhi in their own country, was seen as an act of cruelty, beyond what their (British culture) made acceptable.
But that was in the land, where the swarm were the natives. The swarm over our Southern border is in the land where we are the natives. And it is unconscionable not to stop this swarm. It is not courage to try to negotiate with it, it is a failure to recognize that there is a fundamental difference between the peoples involved. Anyone familiar with Mexican culture, understands that it is not American culture, and Mexicans are not Americans. That is not a put down. The need to pretend that we are all alike is the put down for both Mexicans and Americans.
Both nations reflect their lines of descent; their inherited characteristics, reinforced by growing up in the cultures created by people with the same characteristics--the one area where there is a certain amount of environmental determination of cultural traits.
(We should thank God we're dealing with predominantly Judeo-Christians here, and not Muslims as in Europe, so that at least our basic morals and values have a common conrnerstone, and that these might ultimately be incorporated into our long term reigning in of this problem.)
That statement combines a naivete that is staggering. In many ways the Christian Mexican peasant, is probably as far different culturally from our traditional society as is the Algerian Muslim in Paris--in some perhaps further, because the Algerian is predominantly Caucasian, whereas the Mexican mestizo is probably over half descended from the Aztecs or one of their conquered peoples. (And I do not want to sound cruel in pointing it out, but the Aztec leadership were basically slaughtered by the Spanish. These are their peasant class.)
The characteristics of a people are determined by their inherited traits--again admittedly reinforced by the society created by others with those traits. While religious affiliation can influence how people apply those traits, certainly, it is not a determinant of those traits. And the endless tales of corruption in local, State and Federal Governments in Mexico, surely provide some clue as to how significant is the Christian influence on the Mexican mestizo class. They are not steeped in the Christian ethic of George Washington, that "honesty is always the best policy."
Again, I wish the Mexican people well. I do not covet anything that is Mexican. The War in 1846 was over largely empty territory, and I believe that the rights and inheritance of the Mexican landowners, who were there, have been respected. If not, they should be compensated, but I believe they were and are respected; and that there is still consderable property held by families, which are now very much part of the America States, in which their families have dwelt for many generations.
Many of those families did indeed have values congenial to that of the "Anglo" settlers in the East. But that is not what is involved in this invasion by a lower class of persons, whose values are surely reflected in part in the corruption that almost every serious commentary on Mexico has acknowledged.
William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site
Neither did Marx.
A cute put down, but really a bit irreligious. In fact, by every indication, God both recognized borders and human ethnicity--certainly if one believes that the Bible has any insights on the subject. On the other hand, not only Marx, but Bin Laden--in our own time--has shown his total contempt for borders.
It is absurd that anyone would suggest that the Creator of life, would not respect the varieties he created; would not respect the characteristics of those varieties, including the penchant of many species--man included--to obtain dominion over land; to establish a property in land.
The tendency of some to invoke religion, to justify destroying their heritage is a very interesting phenomenon. Basically, they are trying to find a religious justification, in this age of secularization, to surrender the society, which the God fearing Founding Fathers built, and lovingly passed down to their posterity. But there can be no justification in Western theology for such an abomination. If the proponents of an undifferentiated humanity will not honor their own fathers and mothers, they need to at least respect the fact that others will still want to do so in the land of their birth.
They need to stop this distortion of religion. This land is not theirs to give away. It is the sacred patrimony of all rooted Americans, a people truly Blessed by the Creator.
William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site
This will be a big surprise to those who participate in the battle of Armageddon. And where or where will Jesus establish his throne?
Yes, ridding the country of all the criminal activity caused by a high percentage of the members of that group is and should be a high priority.
"No matter how hard working many illegals may be they are criminals the moment they crossed our borders illegally. "
There are orders of magnitude difference in the level of technical criminality, between hard working folks that are essentially escaping for a better life and outright criminals. That difference is the essential feature the proposal focuses on. The focus is not on the one side, the criminal group.
" the enormous costs brought by illegals.:
The enormous costs were created primarily by rats that use them as a power base. The rats want to make them all citizens. The proposal addresses the matter.
"The average American has sacrificed a great deal for the rest of the world..."
Sure it has.
"...the income level is dropping due to illegals.
The income level is not dropping, because of illegals. They generally occupy sectors of the economy that don't exist w/o them.
"Americans are losing their jobs to non-Americans, even illegals.
This proposal has little to do with that. The proposal's main thrust is to rid the nation of the criminal element and wrench another bolt out of the rat machine. As far as Americans losing their jobs to non-Americans goes, Americans seem to be buying the foreign stuff and the economy isn't going down the tubes. Government intervention to protect American workers isn't called for here. Especially when the competition for labor is not here, but elsewhere, such as Red China.
"then there is the bilingual nonsense"
Yes, it is nonsense.
That's right, but I didn't.
"Mexico for the Mexicans and America for the Americans."
Sure, after all...
"It is absurd that anyone would suggest that the Creator of life, would not respect the varieties he created"
...they're just varieties.
You assume His people all reside here and that the world consists of the US. It does not. God considers hearts, not borders.
But Jimmy Carter claims he believes too, where I see more his deeds facilitating evil.
Deuteronomy and, I think, Malachi both contain verses declaring God's accessability even to pagan nations, so long as they keep to the Moral (Noachide) Law.
But Israel is chosen of God to carry ethical monotheism into the world. And America is chosen of God to so carry into, and hence promote goodness and freedom in the world...both nations as the greatest conveyers of those ideals...God's gift to the world.
Yes. I believe that.
Excluding the criminals now. I pointed out that the fundamental reason for the costs is not the presence of the people, it's the rat policies that are in effect and will be there until and if they are ever removed. Take the case where the doc claimed that if the patient was illegal they'd have the med care med care. A citizen has that same care if their condition and income are low enough. Bilingualism is also a rat invention. It's rat policy that is the problem.how much bilingualism costs us.
"any foreigner from any country"
Only certain countries were included in the proposal. H1s are a joke now, all the rules do is delay. The meaning and requirements of the rules are ignored.
"the middle-class...this is an attack on the average American."
Again the attack is from rats implementing rat policy. The middle class, the avg American has a great deal to do with creating and implementing that rat socialism. At each level of govm't local to fed the policies and rules have been put in place by Americans, not illegals. This proposal has the potential to diminish the rat base.
As I see it, focusing time and resources on an effective attack on all illegals is a big time losing proposition. It diverts energy from the real enemy, the rats, and gives them a big propaganda advantage. I see the proposal as an effective strategy to solve much of the problem from this source. As far as the numbers issued guest passes the unemployment rate is 6%. That means most of them should be deported. They will be if the implementation is done right.
As I see it America is already Balkanized. It's between the conservatives and the rats, Freedom and socialism. That's the real fight.
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