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Bush 'Desertion' Charge Debunked
NewsMax ^ | 1/24/04 | Limbacher

Posted on 01/24/2004 12:31:13 PM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection

Did President Bush "desert" the military, as radical filmmaker Michael Moore insists he did?

Presidential candidate Gen. Wesley Clark suggested during New Hampshire's presidential debate Thursday night that the facts of whether Bush ran out on his National Guard unit in 1972 and 1973 are in dispute.

But in the months before the 2000 presidential election, the New York Times pretty much demolished this Democratic Party urban legend, a myth that first surfaced in its sister paper, the Boston Globe.

"For a full year, there is no record that Bush showed up for the periodic drills required of part-time guardsmen," the Globe insisted in May 2000, in a report Mr. Moore currently cites on his web site to rebut ABC newsman Peter Jennings' debate challenge to Clark that the story is "unsupported by the facts."

"I don't know whether [Moore's desertion charge] is supported by the facts or not," Clark replied "I've never looked at it."

The Times did, however, look at it, and found that Bush had indeed served during the part of the time the Globe had him AWOL - and later made up whatever time he missed after requesting permission for the postponement.

In July 2000 the Times noted that Bush's chief accuser in the Globe report, retired Gen. William Turnipseed, had begun to back way from his story that Bush never appeared for service during the time in question.

"In a recent interview," said the Times, "[Turnipseed] took a tiny step back, saying, 'I don't think he did, but I wouldn't stake my life on it." In fact, military records obtained by the Times showed that Turnipseed was wrong and that the Globe had flubbed the story.

"A review by The Times showed that after a seven-month gap, he appeared for duty in late November 1972 at least through July 1973," the paper noted on Nov. 3, 2000.

The Times explained:

"On Sept. 5, 1972, Mr. Bush asked his Texas Air National Guard superiors for assignment to the 187th Tactical Recon Group in Montgomery [Alabama] 'for the months of September, October and November,'" so Bush could manage the Senate campaign of Republican Winton Blount.

"Capt. Kenneth K. Lott, chief of the personnel branch of the 187th Tactical Recon Group, told the Texas commanders that training in September had already occurred but that more training was scheduled for Oct. 7 and 8 and Nov. 4 and 5."

After the Bush AWOL story had percolated for months, Col. Turnipseed finally remembered another glitch in his story: the fact that National Guard regulations allowed Guard members to miss duty as long as it was made up within the same quarter.

And, in fact - according to the Times - that's what Bush did.

"A document in Mr. Bush's military records," the paper said, "showed credit for four days of duty ending Nov. 29 and for eight days ending Dec. 14, 1972, and, after he moved back to Houston, on dates in January, April and May."

The paper found corroboration for the document, noting, "The May dates correlated with orders sent to Mr. Bush at his Houston apartment on April 23, 1973, in which Sgt. Billy B. Lamar told Mr. Bush to report for active duty on May 1-3 and May 8-10."

Yet another document obtained by the Times blew the Bush AWOL story out of the water.

It showed that Mr. Bush served at various times from May 29, 1973, through July 30, 1973 - "a period of time questioned by The Globe," the Times sheepishly admitted.



TOPICS: Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; awol; bds; bush; clark; desertion; desetion; nh
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1 posted on 01/24/2004 12:31:14 PM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/906471/posts
The Truth About "George W. Bush's Resume"
Curt King

The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not AWOL, Either

2 posted on 01/24/2004 12:36:42 PM PST by backhoe (--30--)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Saved for election time; it will need to be debunked AGAIN.
3 posted on 01/24/2004 12:36:57 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Weasley Clark is CERTIFIABLE...just like his idol, Michael Moore.
4 posted on 01/24/2004 12:37:43 PM PST by Ann Archy
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Related thread from Oct. 2000.
5 posted on 01/24/2004 12:38:47 PM PST by WinOne4TheGipper (The Democrats: an innovative bunch. Every time you think they've hit bottom, they find new lows.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
I knew the day I heard this AWOL stuff that it had to be BS. There's no way a media that hates GWB would keep silent the way it did.

And indeed the Times, one of the most blatently liberal, if not THE most blatently liberal publication around, debunks the myth.

Michael Moore is once again revealed for the Big Fat liar he is.

6 posted on 01/24/2004 12:40:23 PM PST by Cubs Fan
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Bookmarked for future reference.
7 posted on 01/24/2004 12:40:23 PM PST by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
I like how morons jump up and down and scream "There's no record of it". 1971 through 1973 are the worst years to search for military records because the high number of returning troops from Vietnam overloaded the admin system. Plenty of paper got lost then.
8 posted on 01/24/2004 12:43:55 PM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult (Proud member of the right wing extremist Neanderthals.)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Tumbleweed_Connection
It's called "SUTA" - Substitute Unit Training Assembly. National guardsmen SUTA drills *all the time*. It's a mechanism that was put into place because the Guard understands that being a civilian and a soldier at the same time sometimes produces conflicts.

I can't think of a single guardsman I know who hasn't SUTAed a drill before - including myself.
10 posted on 01/24/2004 12:45:33 PM PST by bolobaby
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Funny how the story debunking this myth is not as well traveled as the urban myth that crats keep citing as fact.
11 posted on 01/24/2004 12:46:09 PM PST by Montfort
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To: walkman
Kerry came home and trashed his brothers in arms.
12 posted on 01/24/2004 12:46:45 PM PST by MEG33
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult
Yep, my husband's papers got lost in that time frame.

The Army Reserve had no idea where he was for about three years. I confess to my shame that I am the one who called the regional HQ and noted that we hadn't heard from them for some time . . . so they sent him off to summer camp tout suite! << blush >>

13 posted on 01/24/2004 12:47:22 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . sed, ut scis, quis homines huiusmodi intellegere potest?. . .)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: walkman
Kerry's record also includes testimony before Congress tht our soldiers in the field were little Calley's...killing, raping, taking no prisoners.

The only bright spot on his record was his heroism during combat.

After that, he besmirched what honor he had with lies and pejorative falsehoods, which practice continues unto this day.

He's Jane Fonda in britches.
15 posted on 01/24/2004 12:50:16 PM PST by jwfiv
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To: Cubs Fan
Michael Moore a liar?!

Oh, my word ~ to tell a lie you have to have a mind.

Michael Moore is a mindless twit and cannot lie.

16 posted on 01/24/2004 12:50:36 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Ann Archy
The General has key endorsements:

Madonna

Michael Moore
17 posted on 01/24/2004 12:51:11 PM PST by Dog Anchor
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To: backhoe
This is interesting. The story, as told by Bush's critics, strongly resembles the story of Bill Clinton reneging on his promise to join ROTC.

The true story of course bears only superficial resenblance, if any at all. That's why Micheal Moore and his ilk had to embellish it.

Such repulsive tactics are why I would consent to have a kidney removed by a drunken surgeon with a pocket knife before I would vote for another Democrat.
18 posted on 01/24/2004 12:52:18 PM PST by murdoog (i just changed my tag line)
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To: walkman
I have an idea there may be a number of vets that spread the word.You are correct that most voters won't know and the dem voters don't care.
19 posted on 01/24/2004 12:52:24 PM PST by MEG33
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To: walkman
All this does is highlight Kerry's record (like him or not, he has wounds to prove it).

That may be, but in order for an incumbent president to lose there has to be dissatisfaction. Whatever Kerry's "record" it cannot stand up to Bush's PROVEN record dealing with terrorism.

The economy is good, jobs will probably follow within the next few months.

There is no reason for the public to want to fire George Bush. Therefore, unless something major happens to change the situation, he will win handily.

20 posted on 01/24/2004 12:52:39 PM PST by Cubs Fan
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: walkman
All this does is highlight Kerry's record (like him or not, he has wounds to prove it).
What?  Kerry was in the military?  Are you sure?  What branch?  When?  First I've heard of it... you think he'd mention it from time to time if that's the case...
 
</SARCASM>
 

Owl_Eagle

" WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
DIVERSITY IS STRENGTH"


22 posted on 01/24/2004 12:53:02 PM PST by South Hawthorne ("So what are you going to do, vote for a Democrat? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!"- Karl Rove.)
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To: backhoe
George Bush was a fighter pilot in the Air National Guard. Flying jets is dangerous job and historically, aviators have had a much higher mortality rate than ground forces during wartime. I would not characterize his decision as less than heroic.
23 posted on 01/24/2004 12:53:33 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Bookmarked for the edification of the union kooks and loons at my workplace.

Who am I kidding? They would believe that Bush eats babies for breakfast if the AFL-CIO told them to.
24 posted on 01/24/2004 12:55:11 PM PST by petuniasevan (America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country - George W. Bush)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Turnipseed? Indeed!
25 posted on 01/24/2004 12:55:51 PM PST by latrans
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To: walkman
Well .. you can support Kerry if you want .. but his little "sleep in" on the lawn of the White House (where he blamed Nixon for sending him to war - which is a lie), Mr. Kerry did NOT SLEEP IN A TENT ON THE LAWN .. HE SLEPT IN A VERY POST WASHINGTON HOTEL. The guy is a phoney from one end to the other.

It's fine if this issue comes out about Bush .. and all we have to do is shove the NYT article in their faces .. and eventually word will get around that IT WASN'T BUSH WHO LIED IT WAS KERRY!!
26 posted on 01/24/2004 12:56:52 PM PST by CyberAnt ("America is the GREATEST NATION on the face of the earth")
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

.
28 posted on 01/24/2004 12:56:59 PM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Montfort
Funny how the story debunking this myth is not as well traveled as the urban myth that crats keep citing as fact.

Just about all of the lies and myths to demonrats try to push on people get more mileage than the TRUTH.

Think - tax cuts for the rich, hunger and poverty, the heterosexual AIDS epidemic, abortion as a healthy "choice", all criminals can be rehabilitated, Bush lied to go to war, big business is the enemy of the people, etc, etc, etc...

31 posted on 01/24/2004 1:00:23 PM PST by bolobaby
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To: walkman
I'm sure that makes you happy. Aren't you backing Kerry?
32 posted on 01/24/2004 1:01:03 PM PST by stands2reason
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Bump for use against liberal swine.
33 posted on 01/24/2004 1:01:28 PM PST by Poser
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To: walkman
Your point is quite valid...that's where any Dimokratzki candidate will have an advantage...the media will cover for him...hide, obfuscate and glorify his record.

That's why I don't much think it matter which dwarf gets the nod...Dubya will be running more against the machine than the man.

I rage against the machine.
34 posted on 01/24/2004 1:01:42 PM PST by jwfiv
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To: jwfiv
Don't feed the troll.
35 posted on 01/24/2004 1:03:07 PM PST by stands2reason
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Bump
36 posted on 01/24/2004 1:04:50 PM PST by Genyous
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To: backhoe
What is Michael Moore's military record?
37 posted on 01/24/2004 1:06:01 PM PST by woofie
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To: walkman
Kerry may have wounds from Vietnam, but he also has a freakishly liberal voting record from years in the Senate, and a lovely record as the Lt. Gov. under Dukakis. These are much more relevant than whether one fought in Vietnam.
38 posted on 01/24/2004 1:06:21 PM PST by ilgipper
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To: Dog Anchor
Clark also said this morning that he would do away with the "don't ask, don't tell"....gays should be in the military!!!! As I said ...he's CERTIFIABLE!!
39 posted on 01/24/2004 1:08:11 PM PST by Ann Archy
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To: jwfiv
Did you ever see the Simpsons where Principal Skinner flashses back go his days as a POW in Vietnam. He has a guy under his charge that tries to make an escape while the guards are distracted by a Jane Fonda concert. It was hilarious.
40 posted on 01/24/2004 1:08:31 PM PST by OneTimeLurker
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To: Ann Archy
Jonah Goldberg received a note from a military vet who has known bunches of Generals in his career.(all arrogant pos who know it all). His guess is that Clark had no clue who Michael Moore is.
41 posted on 01/24/2004 1:08:54 PM PST by chiller (JUDGES is JOB #1)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Thanks, saved for later
42 posted on 01/24/2004 1:10:43 PM PST by IrishCatholic (Liberals are proof that public education has failed.)
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To: walkman
I'm supporting Kerry now?

  Posted by walkman to eagles
On News/Activism 01/24/2004 7:40:01 AM CST #10 of 19

Gridlock is what's best for the taxpayers. Let both parties fight. Do you think Tom Delay would've let Bill Clinton increase spending this much?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Uhhhh, yeah, Troll, you're supporting Kerry. Certainly not Bush.      

43 posted on 01/24/2004 1:12:24 PM PST by stands2reason
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To: walkman
There is also the record of Kerry's behavior after he came home from the war.I think this was put out there to neutralize the effects of that behavior when the real campaign begins.That is,of course,if kerry is indeed the candidate.
44 posted on 01/24/2004 1:14:15 PM PST by copwife
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Presidential candidate Gen. Wesley Clark suggested during New Hampshire's presidential debate Thursday night that the facts of whether Bush ran out on his National Guard unit in 1972 and 1973 are in dispute.

"The facts are in dispute" is another cowardly phrase that democrats love to use. All it takes is one looney out there to make an unsubstantiated negative assertion, or more cowardly still, say they saw it on the internet and "the facts are in dispute." Ninety-nine million people can understand a set of facts, but, if one crazy partisan denies them, then, "the facts are in dispute."

Call me crazy, but what that phrase means to me is that there is a genuine difference of opinion with substantial backing and evidence for each side of an issue.

It would be slanderous to say that it was Wesley Clark and not Michael Jackson who molested a young boy. I know that this statement is patently false. But, someone cruising the internet could take the phrase (marked in bold) and write in to his local paper. "Hey, it says on the internet that it was Wesley Clark and not Michael Jackson who molested a young boy.

Then, George Bush could tell Tim Russert that, although he doesn't really know what happened in the case of the molested boy, the facts are in dispute. One group says that the perpetrator is Michael Jackson. Another says it's Wesley Clark. A third says the boy was molested by someone else. A fourth says he wasn't molested at all.

This type of attack is what passes, in the democrat party, as honest discourse. That spinning sound is not merely caused by the democrats' massaging the truth. It is also caused by George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison, spinning in their graves.

45 posted on 01/24/2004 1:14:31 PM PST by TruthShallSetYouFree
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To: walkman
The Boston Globe reported that Kerry requested & received an ''early discharge'' so he could run for Congress---on an anti-war platform.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml

46 posted on 01/24/2004 1:16:41 PM PST by elli1
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To: Ann Archy
Clark also said this morning that he would do away with the "don't ask, don't tell"....gays should be in the military!!!! As I said ...he's CERTIFIABLE!!

Actually, we *should* let gays in the military, just so that issue can resolved once and for all. Here's how it would work...

Openly homosexual men are allowed to joined the military. One of them does what homosexuals always do - he hits on a straight man. The straight man rebuffs his advances. (The myth that gays are only attracted to other gays can be debunked by *any* straight man who has ever had the displeasure of getting hit on by a gay man. It happens all the time.)

Now there is an uncomfortable feeling between the straight man and the homosexual man. Per usual, the two men still share the same shower facility. After the gay man looks at the straight man's arse for the last time, the straight man finally brings up a sexual harassment complaint.

The army has its hands tied. They realize that the straight soldier's complaint is valid and - if not addressed properly - would open the door for male soldiers to peep in female showers without repercussions. Not surprisingly, this type of complaint comes up hundreds, if not thousands, of times. The army realizes that something must be done.

Under pressure to continue to allow gay men to serve, the army begins providing gay soldiers with separate shower facilities - just like they do for women. But - LO - just as you would expect, tension begins to arise between GAY soldiers and one GAY soldier brings a sexual harassment complaint against another one. The army realizes that combat situations do not permit exclusive privacy. They also realize that homosexuals are incompatible with that type of environment. They finally give up on their failed experiment and go back to the way it should be.

We hope... but probably not. It's tougher to take away rights than it is to grant them, so we'd probably just be stuck with a circus sideshow within the army's ranks.

Sigh...

47 posted on 01/24/2004 1:23:15 PM PST by bolobaby
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To: jwfiv
He's Jane Fonda in britches.

Right you may be, but that dog won't hunt. The American public elected a bald-faced draft dodger over two combat veterans. There's no way Kerry will have any Vietnam liability in the eyes of the public.

48 posted on 01/24/2004 1:24:24 PM PST by Physicist (Sophie Rhiannon Sterner, born 1/19/2004: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1061267/posts)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Peter Jennings' debate challenge to Clark that the story is "unsupported by the facts"

I saw the Peter Jennings' exchange with Wesley Clark, and I must say that I was perplexed. Jennings, a liberal who has bashed Bush in the past, is now defending Bush??? Props to Jennings.

49 posted on 01/24/2004 1:30:54 PM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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