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S. 1805, Gun Lawsuit pre-emption bill, my response to 14 amendments.
Self | 3/1/04 | Richard Brengman

Posted on 03/01/2004 1:02:30 AM PST by Richard-SIA

I have reviewed all fourteen known "amendments" to S. 1805.

NONE of them are acceptable!

Some are merely inappropriate for inclusion with S. 1805, others are the answer to a question that does not need to be asked, or "problems" that do not exist.

A couple attempt to make Law Enforcement officers into Super Citizens, granting them extraordinary rights and privileges that are not available to the common citizen. Such nonsense is not acceptable!

The balance are clearly "poison pill's" designed to destroy the bill!

There is no need, and no constitutional authority, for congress to "Ban" ammunition of any type, under any pretext. No "study" is needed to "address" the non-existent "issue" of "armor piercing ammunition". Current law is more than adequate in this area.

The "Boxer Amendment" is alarming in the extreme! It falsely claims to address a non-issue, as most manufacturers ALREADY supply locks or locking containers with their hand guns. The congress has no business creating another unfunded mandate to harass gun manufacturers and dealers. Attempting to do so as an amendment to THIS bill is all the more insulting!

Even worse than the possible mandating of locks is her STEALTH attempt at granting the seditionist who have been trying to destroy our second amendment right to arms one of their fondest dreams! I refer to giving the "Consumer Product Safety Commission" a role in overseeing the sales and marketing of firearms. This initial mandate might appear trivial to casual thought. But it flies in the face of existing law, creating the "thin edge of the wedge" for the CPSC to expand their authority over firearms manufacture and sales. MS. Boxer and her seditionist allies are fully aware of the "mission creep" that all federal agencies engage in, they are COUNTING ON IT in their effort to reverse the intent and effects of S. 1805!

I fully expect that even more feculent "amendments" will be offered in the next few days. It is widely reported that the votes are available to pass this bill without amendments, and THAT is what must be done.

The liberal seditionist have two goals with their amendments, neither of which must be allowed to happen.

The first is to hijack or destroy the bill via odious amendments, such as an "extension" of the Clinton gun bans, registration schemes, ammo ban, etc..

The second is to cause a massive back-lash among conservatives and gun owners against president Bush, the republican party, NRA, and even our very republic.

If this bill is derailed, or passed after being subjected to unbearable amendments, the result will be a massive defection of conservatives from the republican party! Few will vote liberal, but MANY would view that result as proof that both parties are run by "republicrats" and stay home on election day.

S. 1805 MUST pass as a clean bill, any other result risk the loss of Pres. Bush's re-election and conservative control of the congress.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: assaultweapon; bang; banglist; boxer; ccrkba; clinton; congress; election; feinstein; firearm; goa; gun; guncontrol; hicap; jpfo; magazine; nra; rkba; s1805; s1806; s659; senate; vote
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Probably not my best post of all time, but the final vote can come at any time now. This is what I rushed to my good (R) senator a few minuted ago.

We REALLY need to jam the lines for the next two days in support of a clean, amendment free passage of this bill.

1 posted on 03/01/2004 1:02:33 AM PST by Richard-SIA
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To: Richard-SIA
My Senators are definitely going to be hearing from me again! I've got one RAT and one RINO and they both have very poor ratings from GOA.
2 posted on 03/01/2004 1:17:02 AM PST by NRA2BFree (Proud member of the FR Rabid Right Wing Axis of EvilŪ.)
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To: Mr. Mojo; Euro-American Scum
Bang!
3 posted on 03/01/2004 1:18:17 AM PST by NRA2BFree (Proud member of the FR Rabid Right Wing Axis of EvilŪ.)
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To: Richard-SIA
bump
4 posted on 03/01/2004 1:22:24 AM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: Richard-SIA
Addendum!

I forgot one of my main points, staying up too late.

We will probably get "HAD" if the senate is allowed to decide this bill via a "voice vote".

When contacting your senator please INSIST that ALL votes on this bill MUST be recorded!

It is an election year, many of those voting on this bill would like to hide their true record if possible so that they can tell voters from both sides of the issue what they want to hear.

At this time the bill has a status very similar to the McClure-Volkmer "Firearm Owners Protection Act" of 1986.
MV-86 was a "must pass" bill, ATF had been caught murdering citizens in their beds, it was unsafe to travel through several states with firearms in any manner, L.E. entrapment of gun owners was common, etc.
The abuse got so bad that congress finally decided to "do something" about it via MV-86.
The last minute addition of an amendment adding section 922.(o), via "voice vote" has been the source of bitter contention to this day.

Initially 922.(o) affected "only" NFA firearms enthusiast, but it also eventually became the inspiration for the Klinton gun bans of 1994.

We must prevent a similar manipulation of congress being repeated with S. 1805.
5 posted on 03/01/2004 1:25:15 AM PST by Richard-SIA (Nuke the U.N!)
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To: Richard-SIA
Even though I'm deployed in Iraq, i'm keeping a close eye on this issure and plan on contacting my Senators and let them know my opinion.
let's pray that S. 1805 is passed as a CLEAN bill
6 posted on 03/01/2004 1:26:49 AM PST by armyboy (Posting from Sustainer Army Airfield Balad, Iraq. All Gave Some...Some Gave All)
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To: armyboy
Please be sure to let them know where you are contacting them from!
7 posted on 03/01/2004 1:34:12 AM PST by Richard-SIA (Nuke the U.N!)
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To: Richard-SIA
A couple attempt to make Law Enforcement officers into Super Citizens, granting them extraordinary rights and privileges that are not available to the common citizen. Such nonsense is not acceptable!

What? Are you suggesting that government employess do not deserve to be rewareded with Super Citizen status? We must honor our masters. Such talk like yours can come to no good, no good at all. I suggest you apologize, and acknowledge that you've seen the error of your ways. Our masters know best, and it is our place to humbly trust, obey, and honor them, in any way that they see fit.

Besides, it's not like there'll be a small number of such Super Citizens. At the rate the federal gov't is arming its various clerks and functionaries, it won't be long before the unarmed gov't employee is the rarity. So relax, there will be lots of Super Citizens to protect us from ourselves. The future is bright -- for the trusting, and obedient.

Don't make waves.

This message has been brough to you by the Orwell Fund Office of Public Awareness.

8 posted on 03/01/2004 3:30:48 AM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: *bang_list
Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!
9 posted on 03/01/2004 5:19:30 AM PST by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism.)
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To: Richard-SIA
Look for a mass shooting today to pump up support for more gun control. It happens everytime a gun bill comes up for a vote.
10 posted on 03/01/2004 6:21:55 AM PST by aomagrat
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To: Richard-SIA
"The second is to cause a massive back-lash among conservatives and gun owners against president Bush, the republican party, NRA, and even our very republic."

Well then I guess the answer is that Bush, the GOP and the NRA all do the right thing. If they don't, it won't be just the liberals to blame or punish.
11 posted on 03/01/2004 6:34:56 AM PST by looscnnn (Tell me something, it's still "We the people", right? -- Megadeth (Peace Sells))
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To: Don Joe
Police HAVE become a superclass. Especially in places where the state government is most liberal.

Powerful police lobbies in states like New Jersey have pushed the average salaries of police officers above $60,000 in some places, not to mention the additonal perks like overtime, double time and a half for holidays, extensive survivor benefits even if the cop just dies accidently in a non-service related incident, death ebenfits to divorced wives, etc. etc.

Its quite remarkable, but the U.S. managed to exist until shortly before the Civil War without any police force at all - anywhere. Just the militia and average citizens.

Teachers, lawyers, police, construction firms, and insurance
companies have become the nation's most powerful lobbies.
12 posted on 03/01/2004 6:45:44 AM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR McCARTHY!!!!)
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To: aomagrat; Travis McGee
Look for a mass shooting today to pump up support for more gun control

I only hope that you're wrong on this one...but I too am antsy.

13 posted on 03/01/2004 7:13:52 AM PST by Sender ("This is the most important election in the history of the world." -DU)
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To: Richard-SIA
Initially 922.(o) affected "only" NFA firearms enthusiast...


Remarkably, that provision is probably the worst piece of law of all time, because it ensured that US citizens will thereafter be denied modern military arms.
14 posted on 03/01/2004 7:20:17 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: Richard-SIA; All
The Gun Mfrs Liability Protection Act should pass as a clean Bill with the amendments removed. Please call your Senators with special attention to Majority Leader Frist.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
15 posted on 03/01/2004 7:51:51 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Richard-SIA; NRA2BFree
If this bill is derailed, or passed after being subjected to unbearable amendments, the result will be a massive defection of conservatives from the republican party! Few will vote liberal, but MANY would view that result as proof that both parties are run by "republicrats" and stay home on election day.

Bush either doesn't get this, or he doesn't care. There's no way he cannot know what fury this will strike in the hearts of gun owners if the AWB renewal is attached to this bill. He just figures the base has nowhere to go.

His father made the same mistake in 1992. Only this time there is no Ross Perot to give vent to the frustration of the base.

We'll see how it turns out.

16 posted on 03/01/2004 9:12:42 AM PST by Euro-American Scum (A poverty-stricken middle class must be a disarmed middle class)
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To: NRA2BFree; *bang_list
2 RINOs here.

Have already called the only one I even almost trust in regards to this bill, and to beg for the "sunset" of the stoopid AWB.

But for what it's worth...

Just sent this via the contact web site:




"RE: S. 1805

Senator Collins:

It has come to our attention that S.1805, a bill to protect legitimate manufacturers and commercial dealers from being victimized and potentially driven from their lawful enterprise by trivial and predatory litigation, has been subjected to as many as 14 "Ammendments" to date.

We also understand (please correct me if I am misinformed) that most if not all of these ammendments have been imposed by the advesaries of our Constitutional Rights as law-abiding, free American Citizens - specifically under the Second Ammendment in our Bill of Rights - in order to effectively neutralize S.1805 or convert it into an agent of expanding repression and tyranny, contrary to it's original intent.

As my Representative to the U.S. Senate, please consider my strenuous objection to ANY such malicious or irrelavent ammendments being attached to this bill, and my reccomendation that if at all possible, the passage of S.1805 as a "Clean" bill, and by a vote in which all votes are RECORDED, rather than a "voice vote", so that all Senators so voting may be held accountable to their Constituents, as well as to the American People, for their position on this issue.

Although neither a Lawyer nor a "Constitutional Scholar", it strikes me that any law which prohibits peaceable American Citizens from even posessing the material means by which one might possibly engage in criminal behavior, in the absence of any cogent evidence or reasonable suspicion that said Citizen may indeed be preparing to or even likely to engage in said criminal behavior, represents a gross violation of the "Due Proccess" clause of our Constitution.

By "Criminalizing" the posession and/or bearing of arms, as provided for in our Second Ammendment, have we not initiated a precident by which other "potential" criminal behavior might be legislatively "prevented" by the prohibition of both tangable assetts and / or written intellectual material concievably useful in such activity?

How long will it be before the very spoken word, if deemed to be unacceptably critical of the powers that be (by said powers, naturally) are sanctioned by the force of Law?

Then how long before our very thoughts and beliefs must meet with the approval of those in power over us, lest we be cast amongst the "criminal element" and treated accordingly?

Now you may think my concerns absurd; exaggerated well beyond the boundries of intelligent reasoning...

But does not History teach us (if we would care to listen, that is) that just such insiduous "progressions" of power and the natural, concurrent repressions of Human Rights have not only enslaved millions of Human Beings -
but just within the past 75 years or so, exterminated millions of them?

"Absurd" - "paranoid"...? Really?

Tell that to the Survivors of the last Holocaust, a few of which are still among us.

There seems to be rising concern in this Nation - particularly among those of us who are paying a little attention to both History and our ever-expanding and intrusive Government - that the Rights, Responsibilities, and Liberties of the American People are being continually and eggregiously erroded by those more than willing to employ deciet, intruige, and subtrifuge in order to enhance their own power and wealth at the expense of our Constitution and the Republic it has sustained for lo, these some 220 years now.

And so I implore you, as a duly elected Member of the United States Senate, to maintain all due diligence and trust not only to your Oath of Office, and to our Constitution and your Constituents - but to those who by their inspired and couragous sacrifices have, over the Centuries, and continue yet, to defend and protect this grand experiment of Liberty and decency - the United States of America!

Thank you for your consideration;

"Uncle Jaque"
_________




Do you think I was too vague?
17 posted on 03/01/2004 9:20:55 AM PST by Uncle Jaque ("O; Say; Can You See, By The Dawn's Early Light...")
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To: Don Joe
This message has been brough to you by the Orwell Fund Office of Public Awareness.

lol.. You know there is something terribly wrong when a government has to arm it*s employees to protect them from the citizens. I remember when the IRS purchased all the guns for their agents. Of course, that would be the branch of the government that needs the most protecting. :)

18 posted on 03/01/2004 10:27:58 AM PST by NRA2BFree (Proud member of the FR Rabid Right Wing Axis of EvilŪ.)
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To: Richard-SIA
Good point: NO VOICE VOTE!

We need to see who the traitors are, both 'rats and rinos.


19 posted on 03/01/2004 10:31:45 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Uncle Jaque
Do you think I was too vague?

No, not at all. I think it*s a great letter. In fact, if you don*t mind I*m going to use part of it. I*ve already called my Senators several times today. I try to disguise my voice but I*m sure they have an idea that it*s the same lady calling back. lol Oh well, at least they know I*m passionate about this issue. :)

20 posted on 03/01/2004 10:41:20 AM PST by NRA2BFree (Proud member of the FR Rabid Right Wing Axis of EvilŪ.)
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To: ZULU
Its quite remarkable, but the U.S. managed to exist until shortly before the Civil War without any police force at all - anywhere.

Yeah, but there were only a handfull of laws back then. And almost everyone obeyed them out of principle, not fear of the police.

21 posted on 03/01/2004 10:47:21 AM PST by templar
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To: Euro-American Scum
Bush either doesn*t get this, or he doesn*t care. There*s no way he cannot know what fury this will strike in the hearts of gun owners if the AWB renewal is attached to this bill. He just figures the base has nowhere to go.

His father made the same mistake in 1992. Only this time there is no Ross Perot to give vent to the frustration of the base.

We*ll see how it turns out.

I*m with you on this one. The backlash for President Bush and the Republican Party will be disastrous. The outcome will give us a RAT infestation in the White House and an even larger one in Congress.

22 posted on 03/01/2004 10:49:29 AM PST by NRA2BFree (Proud member of the FR Rabid Right Wing Axis of EvilŪ.)
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To: templar
And almost everyone obeyed them out of principle"

True. But the "principle" was often the muzzle of a long-rifle or pistol in the hands of a law-abiding citizen.
23 posted on 03/01/2004 10:58:20 AM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR McCARTHY!!!!)
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To: ZULU
Hmmm... - They didn't have quite as many LAWYERS back then, did they?
24 posted on 03/01/2004 11:16:11 AM PST by Uncle Jaque ("O; Say; Can You See, By The Dawn's Early Light...")
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To: NRA2BFree
Well good for you, Sis!

Imitation being a higher form of flattery, legend has it, I don't mind your using some of my material as you see fit, as long as it stays in context as I'm sure you will use it.

What do you think about my "Due Proccess" theory as it relates to "Gun control"?

I wonder if it would hold any legal water in Court - or if anyone has actually tried it?

25 posted on 03/01/2004 11:20:54 AM PST by Uncle Jaque ("O; Say; Can You See, By The Dawn's Early Light...")
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To: Euro-American Scum
RE:

"His father made the same mistake in 1992. Only this time there is no Ross Perot to give vent to the frustration of the base.

Are your SURE about that?

Check out this e-mail I just got:

Jaque:
I wrote to Dale preston, one of the organizers of the Maine Veterans Party.
Here is his letter in response to my inquiry.
They need organizers in (our) County.
I am considering their platform seriously.
I need more info before I join though.
See the links to the national and Maine websites.
V.


Hello, V.__

Here's some information on our positions in Maine.

The Veterans Party is very new, and the platform is in general terms at this point. The motivation to form the party is to:

1 - give a strong political voice in American government to Veterans for the very first time in America's history;

2 - stop the erosion of Veterans benefits, and honor the promises that have been made to Veterans, such as: medical coverage for life for retirees; health coverage for all Veterans that are indigent; and concurrent receipt (full retirement pay, plus disability payments a retiree is entitled to - until this month, the retirement pay was reduced dollar for dollar by the disability pay, effectively eliminating retirement pay in many cases, and military retirees were the only federal retirees this law applied to);

3 - oppose sending any American tax money overseas until every American has their needs met (Americans are taxed to cover the expenses of government services, therefore, tax revenues should not exceed service expenses, which could lead to a reduction in tax rates for all Americans);

4 - not accept one penny of contributions from corporations, special interest groups, or foreign nationals -
the Veterans Party will continue to pay attention to the American citizens, which is not the case with the current major parties (they get their funds, primarily, from corporations, special interest groups, and foreign nationals which makes the American citizen important, only, at election time);

5 - to serve the backbone of America (the men and women that work steady, pay their taxes, pay their bills, serve America, and raise their children to do the same);

6 - to focus on the business of government, and not participate in the never ending, disingenuous, campaigning that our American politicians engage in throughout their terms of office and successfully obscure the issues which they do not want to confront;

7 - absolutely oppose military actions against other nations except to defend America against clearly defined threats (soldiers are not disposable, political pawns).

We will start in Maine by dissecting the budget to clearly define the revenues, and the expenses. And, just as each of us do in our own homes, insure the expenses do not exceed revenue, and then present the information to Maine citizens to begin the process of setting priorities and expectations in each government department.

This is an ambitious project which leaves no time to waste our resources on digging up mud on the candidates of other parties.

I hope I've answered your questions, and, if not, please tell me.

We're looking for thinkers and doers. At this time, we're beginning the petition drive and need volunteers to canvas their neighborhoods, towns, and counties. As they do, they will absorb information about the needs of their local citizens which can be shared within the party. This is a dynamic party in its first days after its birth. With your help it will grow to become the party America needs for the future.

As of this week, Maine registered voters can enroll in the Veterans Party at their town offices. A citizen does not have to be a Veteran to enroll in our party. We welcome Veterans, Active Duty Servicemen, National Guardsmen, Reservists, their families, and friends.

Take care,

Dale R. Preston
Veterans Party, State Chairman
PO Box 1212
Rockland, Me 04841-1212
(Tel No.s & E-Dress witheld to deter Trolls etc.)

Veteran@MaineVeteransParty.com

www.VeteransParty.US

26 posted on 03/01/2004 11:36:48 AM PST by Uncle Jaque ("O; Say; Can You See, By The Dawn's Early Light...")
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To: Uncle Jaque
Imitation being a higher form of flattery, legend has it, I don*t mind your using some of my material as you see fit, as long as it stays in context as I*m sure you will use it.

What do you think about my "Due Proccess" theory as it relates to "Gun control"?

I wonder if it would hold any legal water in Court - or if anyone has actually tried it?

Thanks for letting me use your letter, and yes, it should flatter you. :) I will keep it in context, but i will add fire to it. lol. I*ve written to all of my Congresscritters so many times they will be impressed at how much I have advanced on the gun issue. :)

I think your "due process theory" might just work. I don*t know if it*s ever been tried, but a good attorney could bring terror to the hearts of our enemies. At least, we can hope that it would. :)

27 posted on 03/01/2004 11:54:21 AM PST by NRA2BFree (Proud member of the FR Rabid Right Wing Axis of EvilŪ.)
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To: Uncle Jaque
I wonder if it would hold any legal water in Court - or if anyone has actually tried it?

Yes they have, but the lower courts are in general not having any, and the Supreme Court refuses to hear cases involving direct challenges to gun control laws, on second amendment, ninth amendment or due process grounds.

28 posted on 03/01/2004 12:46:08 PM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: Richard-SIA
You have no argument from me. Well said!
29 posted on 03/01/2004 1:10:58 PM PST by kimber (Fight for the Right to Bear Arms!)
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To: ZULU
Powerful police lobbies in states like New Jersey have pushed the average salaries of police officers above $60,000 in some places, not to mention the additonal perks like overtime, double time and a half for holidays,

There is a strange dichotomy. My brother inlaw is with the State Police, and his salary is in that range. But, I've known Sheriff's Deputies who made barely above minimum wage.

Teachers, lawyers, police, construction firms, and insurance companies have become the nation's most powerful lobbies.

Again, a dichotomy. My wife is a teacher, in a small town, and the teachers regularly get royally screwed. The union is very assertive about pushing for money for political agendas, where they have zero business playing around, but, when it comes to negotiating a fair contract for the teachers, they can't be bothered. So, the local board just steamrolls the teachers. The very top-heavy administration makes out like bandits, but the teachers (the ones doing the work) don't even get "raises" that keep track with inflation.

The teachers unions IMO will only bother to go to bat for the teachers in the "showcase" venues, i.e., big cities. Everyone else can FOAD, but pay up, or else. My wife takes the "or else" option. She refuses to "contribute" to any of their leftwing causes (same with quite a few other teachers here), paying only the bare minimum necessary for membership (which is still a ripoff IMO).

As to lawyers and insurance companies, I'm afraid I'll have to avoid saying anything about my sentiments, lest I lapse into obscenities.

30 posted on 03/01/2004 1:37:04 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Euro-American Scum
He just figures the base has nowhere to go.

His father made the same mistake in 1992. Only this time there is no Ross Perot to give vent to the frustration of the base.

It's Rovethink. No Ross Perot = nowhere else to go = hold their noses and vote "R".

IMO Bush will do whatever Rove tells him to do. I see Rove as tantamount to the KGB "Political Officer" the old Soviet Union placed on every ship. No mission-relevant purpose, but, absolute sway in all decisions.

31 posted on 03/01/2004 1:40:02 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Uncle Jaque
...in order to effectively neutralize S.1805 or convert it into an agent of expanding repression and tyranny, contrary to it's original intent.

I stopped reading at that point, because I can safely guarantee you that your Senators stopped reading it at that point too, and tossed it into the "nutcase file."

Please note: I am NOT calling you a nutcase. I am merely pointing out the "realpolitik" we're confronted with when communicating with "our elected representatives."

You've gotta craft your message in such a way as to get your message across, without using any "loaded words."

JMO, YMMV, LS/MFT, Not Valid where Prohibited by Law, etc.

32 posted on 03/01/2004 1:44:40 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: NRA2BFree
I*ve already called my Senators several times today. I try to disguise my voice but I*m sure they have an idea that it*s the same lady calling back.

I think it's a safe bet that their phone system recognizes ANI. You can block CID, but you can't block ANI. If you're calling via a toll-free number, than ANI is a given. But considering the "who they are" factor, I suspect ANI is a given regardless, so that they can track down anyone making threats and blocking CID.

33 posted on 03/01/2004 1:48:10 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Don Joe
"My brother inlaw is with the State Police, and his salary is in that range. But, I've known Sheriff's Deputies who made barely above minimum wage."

Generally, or so I'm told, people who start out as Sheriff's officers earn less that Municipal Police or State Police. After a little experience, they try to move onto those positions, unless they can advance up the Sheriff's ladder of promotions.

"My wife is a teacher, in a small town, and the teachers regularly get royally screwed."

I bet she doesn't teach in New Jersey, or in any large northeastern State.

"The very top-heavy administration makes out like bandits,"

True. I have heard about armies of Principles, Vice-Principles, Superintendents, Assistant Superintendents, etc, who suck up the big bucks while teachers on the firing lines get screwed.

The Teachers Unions appear to be obstructive from the perspective of improving education for the students, jealously defensive about tenure, and far too active when it comes to political issues which have little or no relevance to education.

The United States is a big place and the situation varies from one area to another, both demographically, and with respect to teaching benefits, salaries, etc. What I was stating applies mainly to Northeastern states, but probably also is true in places like California, Maryland and some other large urban areas.

"She refuses to "contribute" to any of their leftwing causes (same with quite a few other teachers here), paying only the bare minimum necessary for membership (which is still a ripoff IMO)."

God bless her!!

34 posted on 03/01/2004 2:11:02 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR McCARTHY!!!!)
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To: Don Joe
I know what caller ID is, but what is "ANI?" I would never make any threatening phone calls to anyone, and after reading this, I may never try to "stack the deck" with extra phone calls either. lol
35 posted on 03/01/2004 2:49:42 PM PST by NRA2BFree (Proud member of the FR Rabid Right Wing Axis of EvilŪ.)
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To: NRA2BFree
ANI = "Automatic Number Identification".
36 posted on 03/01/2004 4:07:29 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Richard-SIA
Anybody know where to find fax numbers for the Senators.
37 posted on 03/01/2004 4:14:11 PM PST by alaskanfan
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To: alaskanfan
Sometimes available on their website, sometimes on their letterhead, and sometimes you have to ask for them.

A few will not give it to you unless you are a lobbyist or donor.

I probably have them for Nevada.

Try the varied RKBA group sites, some may be listed there.

Start with http://www.nraila.org
38 posted on 03/01/2004 6:25:09 PM PST by Richard-SIA (Nuke the U.N!)
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To: alaskanfan
Not what you asked for but it's an opportunity to list the phone numbers and e mail addresses again.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
39 posted on 03/01/2004 6:30:11 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Shooter 2.5
1-800-648-3516 or 1-800-839-5276 for free.
40 posted on 03/01/2004 8:15:27 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Shooter 2.5
Faxed Murkowski and Stevens last night. Thanx for your help.

Cspan 2 live right now.
41 posted on 03/02/2004 7:06:43 AM PST by alaskanfan
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To: Don Joe; NRA2BFree; alaskanfan; Richard-SIA; Shooter 2.5; ZULU; kimber; El Gato; ...
RE:

"...I can safely guarantee you that your Senators stopped reading it at that point too, and tossed it into the 'nutcase file.' "

That's a bet which I would not put any money against myself, actually.

As a matter of fact, I rather doubt that they even got past my name, as they no doubt know me all too well by now and have religated me to their respective "Kook Lists / Whackko Files" quite some time ago.

In order to have any credibility with these two, I would probably have to "tone it down" to the point where I was begging for an extension of the AWB to include all guns and sharp pointy-things as well, and asking where I should go to surrender all of my naughty-things to the Government.

Please hold not thy breath waiting for any such "diplomacy" from this recalcitrant old Yankee Onkel.

I don't know why I bother, really; it's sort of a study in futility.

But even if our cause is an obviously lost one, some of us seem compelled to at least make that one last gesture or word of defiance as they drag us down into the keep, in vain as it well might be.

UJ

42 posted on 03/02/2004 9:18:49 AM PST by Uncle Jaque ("O; Say; Can You See, By The Dawn's Early Light...")
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To: Uncle Jaque
I didn't hear how Senator Dominici voted. Do you know how I can find out? I know how the RAT Bingaman voted.
43 posted on 03/02/2004 9:33:32 AM PST by NRA2BFree (Proud member of the FR Rabid Right Wing Axis of EvilŪ.)
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To: Uncle Jaque
But even if our cause is an obviously lost one, some of us seem compelled to at least make that one last gesture or word of defiance as they drag us down into the keep, in vain as it well might be.

Our cause is lost because we fear based. We will continue to vote for the 'lesser of evils' instead of true conservatives because we fear how much 'worse' it would be if the other side got elected (never mind that everything the 'other side' does is with the cooperation and aid of 'our side'). Fear attracts that which it is fixated on. Until we start voting for people who genuinely represent conservatism (and I'm not talking about the Arnie types) and the Pubbies lose a few elections to the 'other side' because of it, there will be no change in the way things are going: The Repbulicans will not run true conservatives till people refuse to vote for false conservatives.

44 posted on 03/02/2004 9:35:52 AM PST by templar
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To: Richard-SIA
S. 1805 will never be a "clean" bill. The Democrats voted for cloture precisely cause they knew it would never be acceptable to the House once all the anti-gun amendments were voted in. Their gamble paid off.
45 posted on 03/02/2004 9:41:21 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: templar
The Repbulicans will not run true conservatives till people refuse to vote for false conservatives.

BUMP

The Pubs are starting to cause me to rethink the concept of Mutual Assured Destruction. At what point does the quickest way to the right become a hard shove of the pendulum to the left?

46 posted on 03/02/2004 9:53:02 AM PST by LTCJ (Gridlock '05 - the Lesser of Three Evils.)
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To: Shooter 2.5
Good luck getting through; The Libs/CommuCrats up this way have a habit of overloading and shutting down all Constituent communications to our Representatives, both State and Local, when there is a vote to be taken on an issue near and dear to them.
This nearly garuntees that none but their side of an issue gets through.

And they will maintain this communications blockade, preventing any potentially dissenting opinion from reaching said representative untill the vote is a done deal - usually in their favor.

A State Rep told me once that they have to keep unlisted cell-phone numbers etc. in order to maintain any contact with the outside World when these switchboard shutdowns are in effect.

Now I don't know if such a "Jamming" operation is in effect now, but since both of our Senator's web sites are currently "down" / offline, I would not be surprised if it is.

I would be interested in knowing if this is a National blockade, or just a Maine thing.

Are you able to contact YOUR Senator today?

If this bill is successfully monsterified by the Dems to convert it from a pro-freedom bill into a radical gun-banning atrocity, I'm afraid that our President will be all too happy to sign it.
47 posted on 03/02/2004 10:27:18 AM PST by Uncle Jaque ("O; Say; Can You See, By The Dawn's Early Light...")
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To: NRA2BFree
Sorry - I'm from Maine, and I'll be lucky if we ever even know how OUR RINOS voted on this!
48 posted on 03/02/2004 10:34:43 AM PST by Uncle Jaque ("O; Say; Can You See, By The Dawn's Early Light...")
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To: Uncle Jaque
"If this bill is successfully monsterified by the Dems to convert it from a pro-freedom bill into a radical gun-banning atrocity, "

Too late, already has been. Time to kill the whole thing, wait until January and try again with more GOP seats.
49 posted on 03/02/2004 10:36:57 AM PST by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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To: templar
RE:

"Until... the Pubbies lose a few elections to the 'other side' because of it, there will be no change in the way things are going..."

Ditto there!

Only problem is - "Pubbies" don't seem to pay any attention at all to history.

BUSH #41 essentially turned on and betrayed his Conservative Base, considering us to be a mere fringe ideaology and not worth offending any potential "undecided moderate" Voters over.

Had he stuck to the Regan Mandate and staid the course, Perot would never have even been an issue, IMHO, and we would never have had to endure 8 years of Klinton.

But his "advisors" told him the same blarney that ROVE is selling to BUSH #43 now, and Party Chair GILLESPIE has been snickering in almost the same words used by Lee Atwater in 1989, then Chairman of the Republican National Committee under President G.H.W. Bush (41) responding to conservative indignation at what we considered to be betrayals and sell-outs to the Dems with:

"Where are they (Conservative Republicans) going to go?" (Hahahahah....)

Well; in 1992 he found out, didn't he?

Remember???

These elite, arrogant Party muckettymucks up in the National Committee apparantly don't.

And after 4 years of that "crush to the Left", what did our Grand Old Party produce to save our Country, Constitution, and Culture from the continuing Klinonian morass?

The Old Elephant dutifully squatted, grunted, sweated, strained, and out popped...

"VIAGRA MAN"!!!

Now There was a real Champion of Conservatism!

Enter Perot; Take #2! - 4 more years of Klinton Syndicate in the White House.

So if they must repeat this ill-advised lurch to the left and subsequently we end up with a President KERRY, does anyone out there really think that the GOP Upitty-Ups will get the message THIS TIME?

I won't be holding my breath for it, frankly.

Seizing defeat out of the jaws of victory seems to be about the GOP's strongest suite.

***********************

Just heard something on the radio - the vote is apparently in, and it looks like party - time for the "Antis".

Surprise, surprise...

50 posted on 03/02/2004 11:04:50 AM PST by Uncle Jaque ("O; Say; Can You See, By The Dawn's Early Light...")
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