Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

***Breaking*** Kerry Continued to Represent the VVAW after November, 1971
WinterSoldier.com ^ | 03/18/2004 | Interesting Times

Posted on 03/18/2004 5:35:06 PM PST by Interesting Times

March 19, 2004 -- **BREAKING** WinterSoldier.com has obtained solid evidence that John Kerry continued to represent the VVAW well after the infamous November 12-15 1971 meeting at which that organization voted on whether to commit political assassinations. See our new "So when did John Kerry leave the VVAW, anyway?" links in the Documents, Film Clips, Audio and Cartoons section.

For example, the New York Times identified Kerry as "spokesman for Vietnam Veterans Against the War" in this article on January 11, 1972. In fact, as late as April 22, 1972, Kerry was still being identified in press reports as a "leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War."

Senator Kerry says he quit the VVAW sometime before November 12, 1971.

Senator Kerry has some explaining to do.


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 1971; 2004; assassinationplot; darkplot; johnkerry; kerry; vvaw
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250251-289 next last
To: FairOpinion; BykrBayb; TomGuy; Interesting Times
Someone else posted this, I saved it for reference, but I can't find who first posted it...
C-Span has announced that it will televise the tape of Kerry's testimony before the Senate committee in 1971 this coming Sunday on its "Road to the White House" segment at 6:30 and 9:30 P.M. EST; the following Sunday at the same time it will show a tape of Kerry's appearance and debate with a prowar spokesperson on a Dick Cavatt talkshow of that year - should be good for lots more juicey bizarre statements by JFK......
I DID verify these times in my Tivo listings...
201 posted on 03/19/2004 12:03:51 AM PST by Future Useless Eater (Freedom_Loving_Engineer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: FL_engineer
oops, That 2nd set of "ROAD TO THE WHITE HOUSE" should
have said March 28th. Supposedly THAT is when the Dick
Cavett interview is being shown
202 posted on 03/19/2004 12:07:52 AM PST by Future Useless Eater (Freedom_Loving_Engineer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 201 | View Replies]

To: FL_engineer
Awesome! I'll tape them both. Thanks.
203 posted on 03/19/2004 12:11:47 AM PST by BykrBayb (FReepers make algore regret inventing the Internet)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 201 | View Replies]

To: FL_engineer
Here is the correction...
C-Span has announced that it will televise the tape of Kerry's testimony before the Senate committee in 1971 this coming Sunday on its "Road to the White House" segment at 6:30 and 9:30 P.M. EST; the following Sunday at the same time it will show a tape of Kerry's appearance and debate with a prowar spokesperson on a Dick Cavatt talkshow of that year - should be good for lots more juicey bizarre statements by JFK......
I DID verify these times in my Tivo listings...
204 posted on 03/19/2004 12:14:25 AM PST by Future Useless Eater (Freedom_Loving_Engineer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: FL_engineer; Howlin
Thanks for the schedules!
205 posted on 03/19/2004 3:42:06 AM PST by MEG33 (John Kerry's been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 204 | View Replies]

To: StriperSniper; Mo1; Peach; Howlin; kimmie7; 4integrity; BigSkyFreeper; RandallFlagg; ...
Oh my! This is delicious!



206 posted on 03/19/2004 4:09:42 AM PST by OXENinFLA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: OXENinFLA
thanks for the ping. I can't believe it.
207 posted on 03/19/2004 4:21:46 AM PST by not-alone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 206 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times
KERRY: NO FOREIGN ENDORSEMENTS, PLEASE... Kerry Foreign Policy Advisor Rand Beers issued the following statement today: '...

Rand Beers? Didn't Mel Gibson kill this guy in Lethal Weapon II?
208 posted on 03/19/2004 5:50:24 AM PST by kinghorse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kinghorse
Rand Beers? Didn't Mel Gibson kill this guy in Lethal Weapon II?

Evidently he forgot to apply the wooden stake...

209 posted on 03/19/2004 6:08:36 AM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

Comment #210 Removed by Moderator

To: Eaker
"putting it all together" ping
211 posted on 03/19/2004 6:13:19 AM PST by thackney (Life is Fragile, Handle with Prayer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PhilDragoo
Good list. You could add:

o Kerry and the VVAW supported the Vietcong "peace proposals" designed to facilitate a North Vietnamese victory over South Vietnam.

o During the Vietnam war, the Soviet KGB ran a huge propaganda effort to manufacture fake evidence of American atrocities and provide it to "peace groups" in Europe and the U.S. Meanwhile, back in Hanoi, American POWs were tortured by their captors. Why? To get them to sign documents confessing to war crimes.

This was a coordinated effort.

212 posted on 03/19/2004 6:16:56 AM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 200 | View Replies]

To: JackRyanCIA
Reportedly, seven. Two of them were John Tower and Jesse Helms, if I recall correctly, and the others were not named.
213 posted on 03/19/2004 6:17:57 AM PST by Judith Anne (Is life a paradox? Well, yes and no...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 210 | View Replies]

To: PhilDragoo
John Kerry: All in the [Socialist] Family pic ! ...

They are all rooting for him, no doubt !!


214 posted on 03/19/2004 6:26:25 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (The Democrats say they believe in CHOICE. I have chosen to vote STRAIGHT TICKET GOP for years !!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

Comment #215 Removed by Moderator

To: JackRyanCIA
He died in a small plan crash within 24 hrs. of Sen. Heinz dying in a small plan crash, in 1991, early April.
216 posted on 03/19/2004 6:35:09 AM PST by Judith Anne (Is life a paradox? Well, yes and no...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 215 | View Replies]

To: keithtoo
amazing how similar they look. Scarey
217 posted on 03/19/2004 6:35:37 AM PST by marty60
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: PhilDragoo; onyx; autoresponder; Registered; devolve
Oh ! One more note regarding that picture, btw.

On Brit Hume's FOX News show, Special Report, I have made note that panel member Mara Liasson - NPR political correspondent LIBERAL - keeps on mentioning Registered's FAKE pic of Kerry/Fonda on the rally stage. I mean, EVERY chance she gets, she makes sure she sticks that in the discussion. Imagine that ! It REALLY must stick in her craw that THAT is the WORST that the 'GOP Attack Machine' can come up with that she can attack. I love it every time I hear her complain about that, hahaha !!

FreeRepublic.com: The BIG arm of the GOP 'Attack Machine' !!

Mara Liasson to Registered and to PhilDragoo:


FreeRepublic.com: I'm watching you !!

218 posted on 03/19/2004 6:40:28 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (The Democrats say they believe in CHOICE. I have chosen to vote STRAIGHT TICKET GOP for years !!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times
How many US Senators did his crew plot to murder?

According to Gerald Nicosia in "Home to War" (page 221) the so-called Phoenix Plan considered by the VVAW involved "the assassination of the most hard-core conservative members of Congress, as well as any other powerful, intractable opponents of the antiwar movement..."

In his March 12th New York Sun article How Kerry Quit Veterans Group Amid Dark Plot, Thomas Lipscomb wrote that "Mr. Camil’s Phoenix Project planned to execute the Southern senatorial leadership that was financing the Vietnam War. Senators like John Stennis, Strom Thurmond, and John Tower were his targets, according to Mr. Camil. They were to be killed during the Senate Christmas recess the following month."

VVAW member Terry DuBose, quoted in Richard Stacewicz' "Winter Soldiers" (page 295) said this:

That [the Kansas City meeting] was also where there was actually some discussion of assassinating some senators during the Christmas holidays. They were people who I knew from the organization with hotheaded rhetoric.

They had a list of six senators... Helms, John Tower, and I can't remember the others, who they wanted to assassinate when they adjourned for Christmas. They were the ones voting to fund the war. They approached me about assassinating John Tower because he was from Texas. The logic made a certain amount of sense because there's thousands of people dying in southeast Asia. We can shoot these six people and probably stop it.

219 posted on 03/19/2004 7:09:15 AM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 212 | View Replies]

To: All
I just received a call from Tom Lipscomb. He told me he got a call last night after midnight from George Corsey (sp?) who is some kind of terrorism expert, who has been recently working with him.

This guy Corsey admitted to Lipscomb that he was the one who had (without Lipscomb's knowledge or permission) fed their research to the FRN and Scott Swett. So I was right.
220 posted on 03/19/2004 7:10:11 AM PST by Hon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 200 | View Replies]

To: NYC GOP Chick
I have a hard time believing he would put himself in a position to be in the room when a subversive assassination plot was being discussed.

No one ever accused Kerry of being the sharpest tool in the shed.

221 posted on 03/19/2004 7:16:31 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (`,,`,,Ooooooo.....I think I over-medicated,,`,,`)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times
Now the gettin is gettin GOOD.....yeaahh boyeeee!!!!!!!!
222 posted on 03/19/2004 7:17:52 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
Interestingly enough, the assassination plot was first mentioned anywhere in print in the context of talking about the VVAW's recollections of John Kerry:

Kerry's Group The VVAW Discussed Assassinating Seven Pro-War Senators In December 1971
Winter Soldiers - An Oral History Of The Vietnam Veterans Against The War | 1997 | Richard Stacewicz

Posted on 02/18/2004 6:54:31 PM EST by Hon

Please note that the following is an excerpt from a book called Winter Soldiers--but it is NOT the book authored by John Kerry, which is called "The New Soldier."

This excerpt is taken from Chapter 4 "Left Face" pages 293-295.

[Begin excerpt]

Winter Soldiers - Richard Staciewicz

JOHN KNIFFEN, TERRY DuBOSE, SHELDON RAMSDELL, LINDA ALBAND, BARRY ROMO

In the fall of 1971, tensions over the direction in which the organization was heading, as it spread out into various community activities and took on a more consciously anti-imperialist position, were becoming more evident. In November, an emergency meeting of the steering committee was held in Kansas City. This meeting was a result of the growing friction among members of the steering committee, and between new members and the old leadership.

John Kniffin (JK): There was a schism going on then between Al Hubbard and John Kerry.

Terry DuBose (TDB): What they were trying to do was keep the credibility before the media, because the media was saying we weren't veterans. John Kerry felt like he had to tell the regional coordinators that Al Hubbard had not served in Vietnam and that he had not been an officer.

Sheldon Ramsdell (SR): John was also very anticommunist. He made it very clear one night in the office.

I do these photo spreads for the Liberation News Service.... I just give it away like to the New York Press Service, and so there was a spread on VVAW in the Daily World, an American communist newspaper, and my shit got in there. We pinned it up on the wall. At that same time, Al Hubbard received a peace award from the Soviets. John went off. He says, "That's a communist newspaper. Isn't that prize a communist prize that Al Hubbard got there?" He's got his feet up on the desk and he's a little nervous, which is making him rhink, “Maybe I should leave this radical organization." But we had no political philosophy; it was just a mixed bag of rednecks all the way to Maoists.

[Stacewicz:] What did you think of Kerry and his contributions to the organization?

SR: Kerry was to me a mainstream politician basically. He was kind of using us. I said, "Go for it you're welcome to take our venue and go for it.”

Linda Alband: lt was mutual use. There was a lot of validity that John brought to the organization: being a Yale graduate, his looks, and he had access to a lot of people we wouldn't necessarily get in [with]. lt was good for both him and the organization. I always heard all the guys that I worked with talking about him. It wasn't anything bitter. They didn't think he used anybody any more than he got used, so it was like this mutual proposition. No one resented that.

Barry Romo: We didn't dislike him. He's an equivocator. He's a liberal. He's a politician. He was liberal, he was rich, he was from Massachusetts, he talked like a Kennedy, he had people cleaning his house that could have been our parents.

JK: More and more enlisted people were coming in, and they were viewing John Kerry as some kind of elitist. It degenerated into a black-white thing and into an officer versus enlisted man kind of thing.

There was a sort of an elitism in that the national steering committee, and the regional coordinators were the only ones who could discuss this. Every¬one else had to go out, and they had a closed session. This kind of upset a lot of people. We're supposed to have this democratic organization and a bunch of kings say; "Go out in the livery and wait while we decide your fate."

The whole thing boiled down to: Where does the power of the organization lay? I had a mandate from Texas that we would fight for regional autonomy and a bottom-up power structure. The power of the organization lays with the membership. The power flows from the bottorn up, not the top down. From that point on, my mandate from Tom, Rick, and Jim - and Wayne and the rest - was that when I went to the steering committee, I didn't go by myself. We went as a delegation. If we voted on something, we would caucus and we would arbitrate, and then we would vote.

Another one of the issues was an accounting of where all the money was going in the organization. The national office had raised all this money, but they didn't seem to know where it went. We sort of felt that the role of the national office, since they were raising all this money, was to distribute it to chapters and to use it as seed money to get more chapters started, to get the organization built. They seemed to feel that we were responsible for raising our own money, and moreover that any dues money we raised should be forwarded to the national office to further enrich their coffers. It got to the point where I was so pissed off at the national office when I took over as regional coordinator that I had all these membership applications laying on my table and my cat pissed on them. I guess the righteous thing to do would have been to recopy them all, but I decided the hell with it; I just bundled them all up and shipped them to the national office.

TDB: The Kansas City meeting was the beginning of the end for me. After the Dewey Canyon III thing, the media attention became so intense [and] we were getting so many members that it got to the point where all we were doing was compiling a membership list. There was a practical discussion that developed in the organization about what was more important, using energy to build a membership or spending energy to do anything that would protest the war. It was turning into this bureaucracy of building membership lists and keeping records. It felt like we weren't protesting anymore.

That was also where there was actually some discussion of assassinating some senators during the Christmas holidays. They were people who I knew from the organization with hotheaded rhetoric.

They had a list of six senators ... Helms, John Tower, and I can't remember the others, who they wanted to assassinate when they adjourned for Christmas. They were the ones voting to fund the war. They approached me about assassinating John Tower because he was from Texas. The logic made a certain amount of sense because there's thousands of people dying in southeast Asia. We can shoot these six people and probably stop it. Some of us were willing to sabotage materials, but when it came to people ... I mean, there were a lot of angry people. They had been in Vietnam, they had lost friends. This had gone on for years; some of them had been protesting for five or six years. They were cynical, nihilistic, and some of them did talk real tough rhetoric, but nobody ever got shot by any of these people. It was just talk.

When I got back from that meeting, I couldn't get up the enthusiasm any more.

The meeting in Kansas City brought in a new steering committee. John Kerry, Craig Scott Moore, Mike Oliver, and Skip Roberts resigned from their leadership positions and were replaced by several new members. Al Hubbard and Joe Urgo remained in office and were joined by John Birch, Lenny Rotman, and Larry Rottman.

At the meeting, a motion was passed to change the structure of the executive committee, making it elective: the committee members would now be elected by regional coordinators. Also, the title of those who were elected to the committee was changed: they would now be called national coordinators. Furthermore, the term of a national coordinator would be limited to one year.

This meeting foreshadowed future tensions within VVAW As new members flooded in, the political direction of the organization changed. The new steering committee wanted to raise the stakes by confronting the United States government more directly: staging sit-ins and takeovers of national monuments and veterans administration Offices, as veterans across the nation had already begun to do. In that sense, they were in tune with the more radical members of the local chapters. They were not, however, aligned with any single political ideology, nor were they ready to let their plans be overruled by democratic processes within VVAW Some of the new leaders had been involved in VVAW activities for several years and had felt that they had a firm grasp on the role of the organization and its goals.

Despite these changes, many members of VVAW still distrusted the leadership. Eventually, new members would take over the national office through democratic processes. However, before that happened the new steering com¬mittee was able to coordinate one more national action: "Operation Peace on Earth."


223 posted on 03/19/2004 7:19:14 AM PST by Hon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 220 | View Replies]

To: Eaker; habs4ever; Ditter; shaggy eel; dorben; Son of Rooster; Tennessee_Bob; Cyrano; ...
PING!
224 posted on 03/19/2004 7:20:40 AM PST by Terriergal ("arise...kill...eat." Acts 10:13)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Enduring Freedom
Isn't this AFTER they talked of assassinating Senators who supported the war in Vietnam???

That would be the implication. Let's see if anyone actually cares about that more than they hate Bush.

225 posted on 03/19/2004 7:21:35 AM PST by Terriergal ("arise...kill...eat." Acts 10:13)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Mo1
bump thanks
226 posted on 03/19/2004 7:22:26 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 101 | View Replies]

To: Enduring Freedom
This guy is hilarious!

Listening to him is rather like looking an Escher painting isn't it?

227 posted on 03/19/2004 7:22:46 AM PST by Terriergal ("arise...kill...eat." Acts 10:13)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Enduring Freedom
ARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! (Kerry upon reading this article...)

Now he'll have to resort to "I don't recall ever discussing that." or "I actually didn't discuss that... before we discussed that."

228 posted on 03/19/2004 7:23:54 AM PST by Terriergal ("arise...kill...eat." Acts 10:13)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: NYC GOP Chick
I have a hard time believing he would put himself in a position to be in the room when a subversive assassination plot was being discussed.

Uh... I have no problem believing this. They think their evil deeds won't come to light or that they can pull the wool over everyone's eyes. They've been doing it for years, why not?

229 posted on 03/19/2004 7:25:35 AM PST by Terriergal ("arise...kill...eat." Acts 10:13)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Fresh Wind
You mean Kerry is a damn liar?

No!! Who woulda thunk!?!

230 posted on 03/19/2004 7:26:18 AM PST by Terriergal ("arise...kill...eat." Acts 10:13)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Samwise
"I represented them until I no longer represented them."

No, it's:

"I actually *didn't* represent them before I represented them."

231 posted on 03/19/2004 7:27:12 AM PST by Terriergal ("arise...kill...eat." Acts 10:13)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: onyx
Can we post that photo wintersoldier.com has on their page?

What is it with all the soldiers in blackface?

232 posted on 03/19/2004 7:29:39 AM PST by Terriergal ("arise...kill...eat." Acts 10:13)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Terriergal
It depends on the meaning of the word 'did'.

If you mean 'did', as in:

1. I did blow my campaign out of the water.

2. I did self-terminate.

3. I did hand President Bush the election.

4. More Years.
233 posted on 03/19/2004 7:30:41 AM PST by Enduring Freedom (Misery Index Now At Lower End Of Scale - Thank You, President Bush!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 228 | View Replies]

To: All
If Kerry was at the meeting where this was discussed, he would have had to have been aware of the importance of the discussion. Note the quote below from Randy Barnes, who currently works for Kerry's campaign:

Was VVAW Involved In Plans To Murder 7 US Senators In 1971? What Did Kerry Know?
"Winter Soldiers"/ "Home To War" | March 11, 2004 | Various

Posted on 03/10/2004 10:29:58 PM EST by Hon

The following is from Gerald Nicosia's book, "Home To War," pp 221-223:

[Scott] Camil proposed VVAW return in force to Washington, D.C., and there apply pressure in every conceivable way to the legislators who were still voting to fund the war. After the assembly of coordinators defeated the plan, he was told it was “a closed issue at this point." Camil replied that such a tactic was "never a closed issue." He then made known an even more radical proposal, which he intended to submit to the coordinators for their approval. If undertaken, he claimed, it would guarantee the end of congressional support for the war. It was this proposal that nearly blew the Kansas City convention wide open, and which branded Camil as both dangerous and crazy for the remainder of his time in the organization.

What Camil sketched was so explosive that the coordinators feared lest government agents even hear of it. So they decamped to a church on the outskirts of town with the intention of debating the plan in complete privacy. When they got the church, however, they found that the government was already on to them; their "debugging expert" uncovered microphones hidden all over the place. An instantaneous decision was made to move again - to Common Ground, a Mennonite hall used by homeless vets as a "crash pad," on 77th Terrace. This time a vote was taken to exclude anyone but regional coordinators and members the national office. The rest of the members, even trusted leaders such as Randy Barnes and John Upton (who had earned their credibility in the mud and tears of Dewey Canvon III), were forced to wait outside on the grass, where messeng­ers brought frequent word of what was going on inside. According to Barnes, everybody knew that the discussion in that hall "was grounds for criminal indictment of conspiracy."

Discussion was not exactly the word for it. John Upton recalls it being "a knock-down-drag-out [fight] at times." Randy Barnes remembers "people standing up on the tables yelling and screaming at one another." The proposal that fired so much anger was called the "Phoenix plan," in mockery of the U.S. government's similar program in Vietnam. There was, in fact, good evidence that the United States Studies and Observation Group (SOG) - known to those inside it as the Special Operations Group - had used its own Special Forces, those of South Vietnam, and even South Vietnamese mercenaries to murder various Communist and Communist-sympathizing village chiefs, political leaders,­ and other influential citizens in South Vietnam. Some say as many as 10,000 were assassinated, in order (theoretically) to rebuild a more democratic infrastructure in the south. Hence the name "Phoenix": a better, stronger Vietnam was supposed to rise from the ashes of the Communist-tainted one. Similarly, Camil now proposed the assassination of the most hard-core conservative members of Congress, as well as any other powerful, intractable opponents of the antiwar movement - the ones who would rather die than see America suffer a military defeat in Vietnam. Fine, let them die, suggested Camil - in fact, help them along in that direction and once they were cleared out of the way, a truly democratic America could arise, one that would choose to be at peace with the rest of the world.

When the Phoenix plan first came before the steering committee meeting, John Upton had been standing almost next to Camil, and he recalls that "at first it was laughed off. Then he [Camil] became really irate, and some other people that were supporting that got really irate, and it got down to a really hard discussion about it. There was a time, I'm not kidding you, I was almost one of them. Especially when we moved over to 77th Terrace, a lot of people were convinced that this was the way to do it. I thought it was a novel idea, but it was not something I would support. I looked on it as doing just what we were fighting against. It was killing people for no [good] reason. I remember saying this, and somebodv stood up and called me a 'moderate'! If I went an inch more crazier than I was, I could have endorsed it one hundred percent. Scott was pissed off just like I was. He was one of those people I really identified with ­ with the anger I saw there. My whole instinct here was, `Let's demonstrate and do these things against the fucking war, to get the word out. Let's talk in high schools. But let's do things legal. Let's get the right permits.' The Phoenix plan was like, that's what needs to be done, but, God, we can't really do that."

The Phoenix plan, like the rest of Camil's proposals, was voted down in Kansas City, but its specter had only begun to haunt the organization; and, ironically enough, among those whose imaginations it enflamed were those very agents who had been charged with finding a way to destroy VVAW.

Nicosia is unlcear as to whether Kerry was still involved with the VVAW at this time. At one point he says that Kerry left the VVAW leadership, after a public showdown with Al Hubbard in July 1971. But then at other times Nicosia seems to suggest that Kerry was not removed from the leadership until after the Kansas City meeting.

Even if Kerry was no longer involved in the VVAW's leadership at the time of this discussion, it still likely that he had heard about this discussion, since it was such a pivotal moment in his group's direction according to Nicosia--or more precisely, the VVAW members he quotes.

So if Kerry heard about this discussion did he report it to the proper authorities at the time? If not, why not?


234 posted on 03/19/2004 7:30:54 AM PST by Hon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 229 | View Replies]

To: Hon
What Did Kerry Know?

And when did he know it?!

235 posted on 03/19/2004 7:31:32 AM PST by Terriergal ("arise...kill...eat." Acts 10:13)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 234 | View Replies]

To: Terriergal
Yeah. But that isn't even my original title for that thread. That was: "Was Kerry Involved In Plans To Murder 7 US Senators In 1971?"

The mods changed it. I still can't figure out why.
236 posted on 03/19/2004 7:34:15 AM PST by Hon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 235 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times
bump
237 posted on 03/19/2004 7:35:00 AM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times
bump
238 posted on 03/19/2004 7:35:16 AM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Terriergal
"What is it with all the soldiers in blackface?"

It's actually whiteface. They are supposed to be dead or represent death.

This is the same schtick they had been doing since even before Operation RAW (in Sepember 1970, where Kerry spoke alongside Jane Fonda).

They re-enacted the supposed atrocities being commited by US troops in Vietnam. They did this at Valley Forge and the surrounding area in 1970 and on the Mall in 1971.

They also threw blood around. In DC they threw blood on the Capitol steps, etc., as well as people.
239 posted on 03/19/2004 7:37:43 AM PST by Hon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 232 | View Replies]

To: Hon
I just received a call from Tom Lipscomb. He told me he got a call last night after midnight from George Corsey (sp?) who is some kind of terrorism expert, who has been recently working with him.

This guy Corsey admitted to Lipscomb that he was the one who had (without Lipscomb's knowledge or permission) fed their research to the FRN and Scott Swett. So I was right.

Okay, let's clear this up once and for all.

The man you misname is Jerome Corsi, a Harvard PhD, researcher and published author who has been working closely with me on WinterSoldier.com. The material he provided that I posted as this thread is the result of his own research and investigation, and was not taken from Tom Lipscomb or done as part of a joint effort. Corsi provided the same material to Mr. Lipscomb as well, because he supports the reporting Mr. Lipscomb is doing in this area. Jerry Corsi didn't tell me he was also providing this information to Lipscomb, and was certainly under no obligation to do so.

Jerry is providing his research to WinterSoldier.com because he shares our goal of creating a comprehensive and easily accessible archive on this topic. He plans to continue doing this.

Despite your nasty innuendos, neither Mr. Corsi nor I have done anything improper or unethical. No doubt Thomas Lipscomb would prefer that Mr. Corsi only provide his work to the Sun, but that isn't his call.

In fact, having these fact available in the New York Sun, at WinterSoldier.com, and here gives more people the opportunity to understand what happened, which is a good thing. At least, that is, for those of us who aren't primarily worried about having our "thunder" taken away.

Your characterization of Mr. Corsi as having "fed their research" to us is both wrong and dishonest. It is, and was, solely Mr. Corsi's research, and he has every right to place it as he sees fit.

I don't know precisely what Mr. Corsi plans to do about your public, false accusation that he admitted to wrongly taking somebody else's work -- an extremely damaging thing to say about a professional writer -- but you might want to consider retracting that lie while he's still considering his options.

240 posted on 03/19/2004 8:10:09 AM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 220 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times; Hon
People, would you both just drop this please? Maybe settle it like "men" in the old days, and take it outside or somethin...

Or, if the Admins are watching/listening, please don't delete this thread until I get home today. I'd like to archive all this stuff on my home computer before this VALUABLE INFORMATION is THROWN AWAY because some people are throwing a hissy fit about who broke what!

I mean, are we on the same team or NOT? I thought only RATS ate their own kind!

< /end rant >
241 posted on 03/19/2004 8:25:09 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 240 | View Replies]

To: Samwise
"I voted TO kill them before I voted NOT to kill them".....

"then I got to BE one"!

242 posted on 03/19/2004 8:27:22 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times; Hon
BTTT for IT. Hon, what's your problem?
243 posted on 03/19/2004 8:40:33 AM PST by Libertina (John F'n Kerry: Dope of Privilege sporting a mouthy left-wing wife.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 240 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times
Look, I told you that it was the same info that I had heard from Lipscomb and that was going to be featured by him. I asked you where you got it. You said it was a coincidence. If you had told me where you got it--privately or publicly, that would have settled the matter. You chose to be mysterious.

As for the rest of your petulant rant and threats of law suits, it is so tiresome it is no longer funny. I'd advise you to take it up with Lipscomb. I just saw what looked like a connection--and there was a connection. You denied the connection. But there was a connection.
244 posted on 03/19/2004 8:41:06 AM PST by Hon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 240 | View Replies]

To: FourtySeven
People, would you both just drop this please? Maybe settle it like "men" in the old days, and take it outside or somethin...

There's a little more to it than that.

I started this thread to break an important story on FR, and Hon aka Mojo was permitted to slander and smear me at every turn. Now he has extended his libel to a well-known writer.

Jim and the moderators could have stopped all this with a single "knock it off" but chose not to do so.

Needless to say, this experience doesn't exactly motivate me to give FR our next scoop on this or any other topic.

245 posted on 03/19/2004 8:43:23 AM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 241 | View Replies]

To: FourtySeven
"I'd like to archive all this stuff on my home computer before this VALUABLE INFORMATION"

You're welcome. BTW, if you really want to archive the information, you might do better than to save a chat thread. You might start here--back more than a month ago:

Kerry's Group The VVAW Discussed Assassinating Seven Pro-War Senators In December 1971
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1080806/posts

Was Kerry Involved In Plans To Murder 7 US Senators In 1971?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1095150/posts

How Kerry Quit Veterans Group Amid Dark Plot
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1096162/posts
246 posted on 03/19/2004 8:46:04 AM PST by Hon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 241 | View Replies]

To: Hon
Post #240 on this thread is correct. I did the research on John Kerry's involvement with the VVAW in the period Nov 1971 through 1972. I provided that research to both wintersoldier.com and to Tom Lipscomb -- the site www.wintersoldier.com could archive the original research; Tom Lipscomb as a reporter could utilize the research, but would not archive it. I have published on political protest and terrorism. I hold a Ph.D. in Political Science from Harvard University, 1972. I have a long history of independent research and publication. The VVAW and John Kerry are a field of interest to me. In 1972, I published an extensive study of the political protest around the 1972 Democratic and Republican National Conventions in Miami Beach, protests in which the VVAW was actively involved (the work was published at the Lemberg Center for the Study of Violence, Brandeis University, 1974). Jerome R. Corsi, jrlc on Free Republic. I'll be happy to clarify any other questions you might have.
247 posted on 03/19/2004 8:47:12 AM PST by jrlc (Just for Kerry - STOP THE BUSH BASHING)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 220 | View Replies]

To: Hon
Hon -- please take a look at my post #247 on this thread. Let me know if anything is not yet clear to you. I did the research, as explained, and I provided it to both www.wintersoldier.com and Tom Lipscomb because each had access to different media and I wanted the information to be availble to both channels. Jerome R. Corsi -- "jrlc" on FR.
248 posted on 03/19/2004 8:51:41 AM PST by jrlc (Just for Kerry - STOP THE BUSH BASHING)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 244 | View Replies]

To: jrlc
Thank you for your post. I wish you had posted earlier. Of course IT could have told me as well. Instead he denied the connection.

Since you are in the business of research you can well imagine my concern when I saw what seemed to be someone else's research being bruited here before theirs was published. I had talked to Lipscomb and he said that he and nobody he knew had given the material to FRN or Swett.

Perhaps you should have told him before after midnight last night that that was what you were doing. I would think that would have been a professional courtesy. But that is between you and Lipscomb. If you go back to my first posts on this you will see that I was only trying to protect somebody's work. If I or Lipscomb had been told what was going on behind the scenes, I wouldn't have posted what I did. Instead it was denied.

Thanks again for your (albeit tardy) explanation.
249 posted on 03/19/2004 8:56:59 AM PST by Hon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 247 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times; Hon; doug from upland
Needless to say, this experience doesn't exactly motivate me to give FR our next scoop on this or any other topic.

Please don't let it come to that. The Internet in general and FR in particular is literally the only way people have to get the truth of what's going on; that's the stark reality of the situation. Even Fox, as much LESS biased as it is, is still biased towards one thing, and that's ratings, which translates to soundbytes as news stories, i.e., not a complete retelling of any story. Anything that can be told in 10 minutes or less before the next commercial break is fine, but nothing beyond that. Limitations of television I guess, to a certain extent, to be fair.

At any rate, I'm convinced many people at Fox lurk here, so please keep the pressure on this story. This is HUGE, so big in fact I don't want to mis-spell huge, for any chance of this being taken lightly. hehe

This goes for both you and Hon really. And doug from upland, and ... well all you guys you're all doin a great job!

Just keep focused on the prize, which is the destruction of the 'Rats. After that's done, we can all get together and whoever pins the tail on the donkey the best can beat the crap out of the others or somethin like that...you know, settle it civilized. hehe

250 posted on 03/19/2004 9:05:44 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 245 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250251-289 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson