Oddball facts about Metro trains and their first 25 accidents

I would suppose there is a reason for that.

Well yes there is.
When the Blizzard of 1888 paralyzed all surface traffic throughout NYC,
it dramaticly emphasized the advantages of building their light-rail system underground.
Houston is much less at risk of snowstorms and blizzards,
But if they want to put in a subway instead of surface-street light-rail, that's OK with me too.

61 posted on 03/30/2004 12:29:12 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)

To: Willie Green; Dog Gone

Houston is much less at risk of snowstorms and blizzards, But if they want to put in a subway instead of surface-street light-rail, that's OK with me too.

New York City, or rather Manhattan, is ideally suited for subways -- and skyscrapers -- due to its geological features, namely, gneiss and schist that is covered by only thin topsoil. It's harder to dig through but tunnels are unlikely to collapse.

Houston, by contrast, is on sand and clay. Sediment, not rock. You don't find many houses with basements. A high water table makes them impractical.

But don't give up, Willie. I'm sure the folks over at Metro would be willing to entertain your idea for a subway, just as long as the rest of the country is asked to pay for it.

And think of all the jobs it would create for out-of-work oilmen.

No Turning Back: Flood won't alter Metrorail or Southwest Freeway projects in progress

62 posted on 03/30/2004 1:46:31 PM PST by logician2u

Metro does not plan to risk any of its rail cars, which cost $2.5 million each, by running them through more than about 3 inches of water. But at the height of Allison's flooding, water stood 4 1/2 feet deep in the middle of Fannin Street where the tracks will run through the Texas Medical Center.
In 1976, the same location flooded to a depth of 2 1/2 feet. No records are kept of the many occasions when area streets have flooded to the curbs from brief but intense thunderstorms.
The only part of the rail project design that Metro plans to change in light of the flooding is to raise the tracks by 4 inches between Blodgett Street and Hermann Park, said John Sedlak, Metro vice president of planning, engineering and construction.

63 posted on 03/30/2004 1:57:36 PM PST by Dog Gone

To: logician2u; rock58seg

I'm sure the folks over at Metro would be willing to entertain your idea for a subway,

A Houston subway isn't "my idea", pantload.
I was merely commenting to rock58seg as to NYC's incentive for building underground.
IMHO, Houston would be better off by simply revoking th licenses of the idiots who don't know how to drive.
But if they'd rather spend the extra $$$ to go underground, that's OK with me.

64 posted on 03/30/2004 2:05:19 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)

Your scenario is flawed, not the rail line.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Failure to control your vehicle is always the fault of the driver.

Indeed it is, and if you fail to compensate for other drivers around you even when they commit errors or drive in a comparatively unsafe manner you will (a) end up in a collision with them and (b) under certain circumstances, be found at fault.

Try to convince a judge otherwise.

There is no need to convince a judge otherwise as any quality judge will recognize that the process of operating a vehicle requires one not only to act but also to react to constantly changing and sometimes dangerous circumstances that may impede their desired route, speed, or direction. I am simply noting the mathematically irrefutable fact that metrorail, by reason of momentum, is placed at a severe deficiency in its ability to react to the inherently fluctuating operational environment. I am also noting the observationally irrefutable fact that metrorail's track design contains numerous flaws that exacerbate the frequency in which reaction scenarios present themselves. Add one and two together and you get collisions - in this case lots of them.

65 posted on 03/30/2004 2:19:40 PM PST by GOPcapitalist

Selling so soon? Moving off to California, NY, etc?

Also, just because the county assesses your residence at 10% higher than the previous year does not mean that it is actually worth more. That is strictly for tax purposes.

66 posted on 03/30/2004 2:21:47 PM PST by weegee (I'm anti-establishment. I oppose the liberal media elites.)

Of course with a name like Wham-Bam a different district may be more appropriate.

The Wham-Bam tram starts out near the Astrodome (I don't care who's bought the naming rights this month, that's what the world's 8th wonder will always be to a number of people around this globe called Earth).

If people park at the dome (or in the surrounding neighborhood) they can be sure to visit the prostitutes in the area and the cheap motels that line lower Kirby. Wham-Bam-Tram indeed.

67 posted on 03/30/2004 2:28:45 PM PST by weegee (I'm anti-establishment. I oppose the liberal media elites.)

To: Willie Green

Houston is much less at risk of snowstorms and blizzards, But if they want to put in a subway instead of surface-street light-rail, that's OK with me too.

Can't do it because Houston is prone to (a) tropical storms and (b) rapid flooding. Basements don't work in Houston because of this and whenever a big storm hits all the below-ground car garages, tunnels, and roadways flood. I've got photographs I took from a bridge over US 59 near downtown after a storm a few years ago. There's normally an 8 lane highway below that bridge. When I took the photograph there was a guy zooming back and forth on a jet ski. It is also pertinent to note that on the night before (when all the rain was coming down that filled up the freeway basin) I was driving in an SUV down Fannin where the light rail line goes now. There average spot on that roadway had 6 inches of water (which I carefully managed) and some spots exceeded a foot (which I had to maneuver around by going up the curve and cutting through a gas station parking lot). Note for the uninformed: when water levels exceed 3 inches on Fannin Metrorail's specs say it shuts down.

The point, Willie, is that you do not know Houston, you do not know its traffic patterns, you do not know its government system, you do not know its geography, you do not know its people, and you do not know what those people want or need for their transportation. You do not have any substantial experience understanding or witnessing Houston's infrastructure in action and you do not live in Houston. Yet for some inexplicable reason you persist in demanding that we spend our money to build a rail-based transit system that meets your specifications on the off chance that you might visit for a day or two as some undetermined point in the future. My question: what gives you the right?

68 posted on 03/30/2004 2:31:41 PM PST by GOPcapitalist

To: Willie Green

An "illegal turn" would include incidents (which I have seen on Metrorail's own camera footage as broadcast on Fox 26) where a Metrorail train operator is blowing the horn forcing a driver to make an "illegal" turn. Another of those "illegal" turns was a woman who turned where a left turn was legally permissable, she just turned from a center lane instead of a left turn lane. She alledges that the light that flips to prohibit left turns as the train approaches did not change. That incident was still under investigation the last I heard (if she was wrong, Metro should have had the footage available that day).

Then there are the workers who lifted the barricade to drive their truck onto the tracks to do their job on the line. Metro was joyriding a practice run and hit the truck. The workers had reason to be there and Metro was not supposed to be there that day (this was before the rail had opened to the public). Guess who got the blame.

Being Jewish was a criminal offense in Germany. Just because the lights toggle to give the Metrorail "right of way", does not mean that Metro drivers respect other drivers on the road. Saying that every incident is the fault of the drivers of the cars is just another way of saying it is illegal to hit the Metrorail.

69 posted on 03/30/2004 2:35:26 PM PST by weegee (I'm anti-establishment. I oppose the liberal media elites.)

Always treat the track like it's loaded.

Ain't it the truth? One driver died when she flipped her car on the tracks (no Metrorail train around).

70 posted on 03/30/2004 2:36:35 PM PST by weegee (I'm anti-establishment. I oppose the liberal media elites.)

contrary to water-cooler speculation, there's only one guy with the middle name Wayne

LOL! My husband's middle name is Wayne, so I'm often reminding him that he is probably a latent serial killer. It could only be worse if his middle name were "Lee"!

71 posted on 03/30/2004 2:39:48 PM PST by T Minus Four

To: GOPcapitalist

Those "previous articles" almost all come from the Houston Chronicle, which adheres to an overt, stated, and malicious policy of promoting Metrorail through its news coverage and downplaying its flaws.

Here's the internal memo that someone posted to the Houston Comical's website...

Accidental Houston Chronicle memo admits to tainting the news with political agenda

A Houston odyssey: DeLay, Lanier and light rail
Posted to HoustonChronicle.com Nov. 20,2002
Next November, voters in the city and across the Metropolitan Transit Authority service area will cast a truly important vote: They will decide whether Metro should be permitted to expand our rail rail system beyond the 7-mile South Main line.
There isn't a more critical issue on the horizon. I propose a series of editorials, editorial cartoons and Sounding Board columns leading up to the rail referendum, with this specific objective: Continuing our long standing efforts to make rail a permanent part of the transit mix here.
The timing, language and approach of the paper's editorials would, of course, be the decision of the Editorial Board. But I suggest that they could be built upon and informed by a news-feature package with an equally specific focus: Telling the story of rail here by examining the long term relationship of the two key players in the local transit wars -- Rep. Tom DeLay and former Mayor Bob Lanier. For better or worse, (mostly worse, I would argue) no two have had a more significant impact on transit decisions here. Our readers deserve to know how they've operated to fund and promote an anti-rail agenda for the past two decades. This would be vital information for voters as they come to their decision on rail. It would also be highly entertaining read.
We in Houston have our own version of the "Chinatown" story of the early 20th century Los Angeles, when the currency of power was water: Who controlled it; who received it; where it came from; and where it went at what price. Since World War II, Houston's currency has bee concrete-- millions of cubic yards poured for freeways.
DeLay and Lanier have been the two central characters in our local drama. This urban-suburban, Republican-Democrat odd couple is bound by the belief highways and poured concrete are the path to a profitable future for this area, and its converse--the belief that mass transit must be stopped in its tracks.
The broad elements of the news/features package could include:
? The story of how the Lanier-DeLay relationship began (in the early 1980's when Lanier was chairman of the state Hiway Commission and DeLay was a young congressman)
?Lanier the land man: Through his privately held Landar Corp., Lanier has long shown his prescience in purchasing land where roads would ultimately go. Where are his holdings? Specifically , where are his holdings along the Grand Parkway? How has he benefitted by the building of roads.
?DeLay's steady rise to power in Congress. How it come about and, more importantly, how it was funded (by the highway lobby).
?Lanier's rise to political power. His rift with former Mayor Kathy Whitmire that turned into a determination to run her off (he did and she was never heard from again); his controversial shifting of transit funds into the city budget in the much discussed "Metro transfer."
?Bob Lanier, public kingmaker. For almost a decade, the path to public office in Houston has wound through Lanier's den. Mayoral and City Council hopefuls, congressional candidates, would-be Texas Texas legislators and county commissioners--all come to kiss the great man's ring and bid for his approval. What is protocol? Who makes introductions? What is the quid-pro-quo? And, the $64 question: How has Lanier managed to promote himself as the patron saint of inner city Houston while working with DeLay to promote a relentlessly suburban/freeway/anti-rail funding agenda at all levels of government?
?Ground zero for November: The campaign led by DeLay and Lenier to defeat rail expansion. Who is doing the funding? What is the history of the San Antonio-based think tank doing the the research to discredit rail?
Any number of sidebar topics also come to mind:
?The Fort Bend mayors who are bucking DeLay and Lanier to bring commuter rail to the thousands of Fort Bend residents who work in the Medical Center.
?Laniers involvement in the lawsuit brought by former Houston Councilman Robb Todd to hold up the South Main light rail project. ?Elyse Lanier: From jewelry salesperson to Houston political insider.
?The Greater Houston Partnership and the clean-air saga. When the Environmental Protection Agency put clean-air deadlines on the Houston region in the early 1990's, the Partnership resisted mightily. The thinking was: We have the political connections in Washington--from George Bush and Bill Archer to DeLay and Lloyd Bentson-- to stall and stonewall until this all goes away. What went wrong? What was the Chronicle's role in supporting this approach?
?A primer on highway building, Houston style: Why the Southwest Freeway turned south and west rather than continuing due west (developer Frank Sharp had a hand in this).
?Why Texas highways have frontage roads (a key to economic development) in the first place. Sam Rayburn added them to the language in President Eisenhower's landmark legislation creating the Interstate Highway System in the 1950's. At whose bidding?
This is a story in urgent need of telling, and an editorial position of equal urgency. Voters deserve to know the history of how Houston came to be a city of freeways well before they decide about rail's future next November. They need to know who has wielded the power to pour concrete, who still wields it and to what lengths the concrete pourers will go in order to stop rail.

72 posted on 03/30/2004 2:43:24 PM PST by weegee (I'm anti-establishment. I oppose the liberal media elites.)

To: GOPcapitalist

you do not know its people,

Based on what I've read, they sure don't know how to drive very well.
Besides, two of my younger brothers live in Houston, and they tell me the same thing.

73 posted on 03/30/2004 2:47:11 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)

Saying that every incident is the fault of the drivers of the cars is just another way of saying it is illegal to hit the Metrorail.

Exactly. The system is rigged in Metrorail's favor. It simply permits them to continue destroying other people's property and lives with virtual impunity. Metrorail harms the public as a whole by subjecting it to unreasonable and pervasive dangers while helping only a select few with vested financial stakes in their project. It is therefore unfit to exist.

74 posted on 03/30/2004 2:52:37 PM PST by GOPcapitalist

To: Willie Green

Based on what I've read, they sure don't know how to drive very well.

That's an unqualified conjecture without any demonstrable substance to it. All you can say is that there have been a lot of wrecks with light rail - something that is generally true of any city with light rail because light rail is inherently accident-prone. That doesn't mean everybody who gets hit is stupid. A lot of the ones who got hit were innocent motorists who found themselves caught in the midst of a faulty turn signal system on a poorly designed track.

You did not answer my question, BTW. You demand that we build rail to your specifications. You do not live here so, once again, what gives you the right?

75 posted on 03/30/2004 2:56:42 PM PST by GOPcapitalist

To: GOPcapitalist

All you can say is that there have been a lot of wrecks with light rail

Most of which were the fault of the automobile drivers, not the Metro.

something that is generally true of any city with light rail because light rail is inherently accident-prone.

No they're not. Most other cities are capable of operating their systems daily with no such problems. Idiot drivers in Houston don't seem to be very adaptable, however.

You demand that we build rail to your specifications.

Blatantly untrue.
As far as I'm concerned, Houstonians can build their light rail to whatever specifications they want.
Afterall, THEY'RE the ones who voted in favor of it.
You're just peeved because you were on the LOOSING side of the referendum.
Too bad. So Sad. But it's tough beaners for you, I guess.

76 posted on 03/30/2004 3:33:29 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)

To: Willie Green

Well, let's just stipulate to your assumptions for purposes of this discussion.

Given the fact that Houston has idiot drivers, light rail is not suitable for this city.

77 posted on 03/30/2004 3:40:41 PM PST by Dog Gone

most of the crashes were due to illegal left turns. Repeat: illegal left turns.

Friends don't let friends go left!

78 posted on 03/30/2004 4:34:41 PM PST by iamright (Friends don't let friends go left!)

To: Willie Green

And that is why there are still el trains in the subway system. The 1888 blizard did it. Good try.

79 posted on 03/30/2004 4:39:45 PM PST by rock58seg (Character and integrity do count. BUSH/CHENEY 04)

To: Willie Green

Actually I don't like any of the plans. Light rail is impractical. Its all a boondoggle to put money in it's sponsors pockets. I was pointing out why other areas have less interaction between motorists and trains/trollies. Light rail is only desired by people who make money off of the original planing, building and susequent patronage.

Wham-Bam indeed! Did the local politicians at least smile afterward.

80 posted on 03/30/2004 4:50:45 PM PST by rock58seg (Character and integrity do count. BUSH/CHENEY 04)

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794