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Could Nick Berg's execution be fake?
Pravda ^ | 05/14/2004 | Pater Havlasa

Posted on 05/18/2004 12:17:44 PM PDT by presidio9

Given the incomprehensible jungle of information, the very first question, when viewing this video of an American civilian, N. Berg"s execution, should be whether it is even true? There appear to be a few problems with it, casting doubt on its authenticity. If these questions aren"t answered, one should be wary of the entire matter and be advised not to give in to the patriotic blindness brought on by the emotional charge this video packs.

Consider these inconsistencies with the video before making up your mind:

1) CIA claims it has examined the video and concluded that the hooded figure is Zaqrawi, a high level al-Qaeda operative. However, anyone who has seen the video will attest to the fact that there is no way to identify anyone from it, including the victim. Second, according to an US military report in April "03, Zaqrawi was killed in the bombing of Falluja. CIA does not elaborate whether Zaqrawi has magically sprung back to life or whether the April report was wrong.

2) The US media claimed that Zaqrawi lost a leg in 2001. Now, it says that he did not lose his leg after all. This flip flop seems too coincidental as the purported figure in the video doesn"t appear handicapped. The US does not elaborate on which intelligence is wrong.

3) The US media says the audio says that N. Berg was executed in retaliation to the US prison abuse. The reaction of the media was far too quick. It moved straight to using it in making a comparison between prison "humiliation" and a "beastly killing" saying to the shocked public "Look, we only humiliated them in the prison and look at what the animals do to us." It was quick to point out that what the terrorists do to Americans is far worse than what the US is doing to the Iraqis.

There are several problems with this. First, there have been numerous reported deaths in the US prisons caused by severe beatings so comparing "humiliation" to a death is the wrong comparison. Second, the tortures and abuses have gone on for over a year. If al-Qaeda were in the business of avenging prison abuse, it would have already done it and probably on several occasions. Otherwise it means that al-Qaeda gets their information from CNN or that it just happened to be a coincidence matching Abu Ghraib prison pictures with this video. It"s very unlikely that al-Qaeda would and could engage in this synchronized US media play. The timing of the video release and the media attempts to whip up an anti-Islamic frenzy suggests a media ruse timed perfectly to deflect the mounting outrage and condemnation of the US military.

4) The voice on the video says that an offer was made to the US military to exchange N. Berg for "some of the prisoners in Abu Ghraib". The US has not commented on this.

5) The Bergs claim their son was detained by the US and are blaming their son"s death on the US military but the US says that N. Berg was never detained and instead was offered a free plane ride from Iraq. It does, however, seem that in order to offer a plane ticket, the US military must have had some dealing with N. Berg. In any case, N. Berg disappeared when in US custody.

6) The victim in the video is wearing an orange prison jumpsuit, the kind seen in pictures of Guantanamo inmates. It"s hard to believe that al-Qaeda terrorists would be supplying their victims a regulation outfit. None of the recently kidnapped hostages in Iraq (Japanese and Italian) wore any uniform outfits whatsoever.

7) [WARNING: Reader"s discretion advised] A human head contains 1.5 gallons of blood yet the freshly decapitated head shown in the video is leaking none. Neck artery would squirt a foot long geyser of blood. There is no evidence of that either. Only one answer lends itself here: the video was doctored. Either a portion was clipped out or the beheading never took place as shown, with the possibility of the victim being already dead.

8) The victim never resisted the killing. Even when on the ground, only one person sufficed to completely subdue N. Berg.

This article aims at proving or alleging nothing. The point is to provoke doubt and hopefully stave off a few readers from becoming an easy emotional target and a news puppet.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: nickberg; reynoldswrap; tinfoilhat
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1 posted on 05/18/2004 12:17:45 PM PDT by presidio9
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To: presidio9

"Pravda" is still living up to the opposite of its title.


2 posted on 05/18/2004 12:21:12 PM PDT by Numbers Guy
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To: presidio9
'Course, there's that nasty inconsistency that he was found decapitated.

Pravda. On the cutting edge....

3 posted on 05/18/2004 12:23:52 PM PDT by theDentist (John Kerry never saw a TAX he wouldn't HIKE !!!)
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To: presidio9

I didn't think it were possible for the Russian Pravda to be less trustworthy than the Soviet Pravda, but it is.


4 posted on 05/18/2004 12:24:15 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: presidio9

Come here Pravda...Let me saw your head off and we'll see if it is fake...


5 posted on 05/18/2004 12:24:46 PM PDT by TSgt (What have you done for your country today?)
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To: presidio9
...or else the video was doctored

Even a redneck would retort to this with a ya' think?. The timer at the bottom of the video and the disjunct between the sound and the film is a tipoff.

6 posted on 05/18/2004 12:25:38 PM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: presidio9
>"This article aims at proving or alleging nothing. The point is to provoke doubt ..."

This almost defines
the media and the Left
in general now . . .

7 posted on 05/18/2004 12:26:21 PM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: presidio9

I'll believe it when DEBKA weighs in. <|:)~


8 posted on 05/18/2004 12:26:21 PM PDT by martin_fierro (I'm martin_fierro and I approved this post.)
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To: presidio9
The orange jump suit thing bugs me too. However I am more confused by the father's leftist connection and Nick's innability to explain what he was doing there since you don't have independent radio tower repairmen.

I think its possible that he was no "republican" and that he was there as part of some larger plot, and that the terrorists killed him despite that.

As for Pravda's conspiracy theories, there's a big angle they left out; how did the US garner control of the website that broadcast it, and after they did do that, why in the world didn't the terrorists issue their own claims that they were not in fact involved in this?

I trust the alledgedly spooky military industrial complex any day of the week before I trust PRAVDA.

As the grandson of a Russian immigrant, my Dad always had a interesting saying; "Never trust a Russian"

9 posted on 05/18/2004 12:27:03 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (I am no longer afraid to publicly say I love Jesus, thanks Mel)
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To: presidio9

Might tin foil hat has been on very tight since this all happened...
I had wondered where all the blood was ect.
GEE, THIS COULD BE A FAKE...WHERE IS THE BLOOD.


10 posted on 05/18/2004 12:27:07 PM PDT by joyce11111
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To: presidio9
"Look, we only humiliated them in the prison and look at what the animals do to us." It was quick to point out that what the terrorists do to Americans is far worse than what the US is doing to the Iraqis.

What "media" is he listening to?

11 posted on 05/18/2004 12:27:47 PM PDT by TankerKC (R.I.P. Spc Trevor A. Win'E American Hero)
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To: presidio9

They found his headless body. Enough said.


12 posted on 05/18/2004 12:28:49 PM PDT by jerod
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To: presidio9
Pravda still thinks the fall of the Soviet Union was 'faked,' and that Brezhnev is still running things from within his life-support battle chairtm. Anything else is 'CIA propaganda.'
13 posted on 05/18/2004 12:30:02 PM PDT by atomicpossum (Hey, I wouldn't touch Camryn Manheim's uterus on a bet.)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: presidio9
However, anyone who has seen the video will attest to the fact that there is no way to identify anyone from it, including the victim.

Voice comparisons, you idjits.

15 posted on 05/18/2004 12:31:29 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: vetvetdoug
Even a redneck would retort to this with a ya' think?. The timer at the bottom of the video and the disjunct between the sound and the film is a tipoff.

Try this:

Timestamps on Nick Berg Video, 2 cameras used

16 posted on 05/18/2004 12:32:48 PM PDT by gubamyster
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To: theDentist

LOL. Those illusionists are my favorite act. Now where do they place their head when the blade "seems" to chop it off and make it.....disappear?!?!?!?


17 posted on 05/18/2004 12:33:44 PM PDT by gathersnomoss
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To: presidio9

I've seen this stat posted before and still have a hard time believing the human head contains 1.5 gallons of blood.

Just picture a milk gallon jug (and then 1/2 again) on your shoulders...


18 posted on 05/18/2004 12:33:58 PM PDT by Florida_Freeper
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To: jerod

That was just an illusion. This guy deserves a standing "O".


19 posted on 05/18/2004 12:35:31 PM PDT by gathersnomoss
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To: joyce11111

20 posted on 05/18/2004 12:35:46 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does)
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To: presidio9

Yes, and Joe Stalin died peacefully in his sleep.


21 posted on 05/18/2004 12:36:23 PM PDT by hgro
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To: Florida_Freeper

That's a lot of head.


22 posted on 05/18/2004 12:38:09 PM PDT by gathersnomoss
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To: FieroJockey; Admin Moderator
FieroJockey
Since May 18, 2004

Nick Berg was not Jewish.

23 posted on 05/18/2004 12:38:11 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does)
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To: TankerKC

Limbaugh, Savage, Beck, Ingraham, FreeRepublic, Instapundit etc.


24 posted on 05/18/2004 12:39:03 PM PDT by Homer1
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To: jerod

Has anyone thought that maybe this guy was a martyr?? We know he was a traitor. But it is yet another possibility.
JMO


25 posted on 05/18/2004 12:39:53 PM PDT by isatoi (Yesterday is history. Tomorrow a mystery.. Today is a gift. That's why it's called the present!)
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To: presidio9

If the decapitation is real, then the benefit belongs to the terrorists.

The military and the parents can both affirm whether or not there had been a decapitation.


26 posted on 05/18/2004 12:39:54 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)
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To: presidio9

So it was purely an industrial accident by which he was decapitated?


27 posted on 05/18/2004 12:40:25 PM PDT by weegee (NO BLOOD FOR RATINGS. CNN ignored torture & murder in Saddam's Iraq to keep their Baghdad Bureau.)
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To: presidio9
Why would a Jew be walking around Iraq when he should know that he would be a target.

Why was David Pearl allowed by his employer allowed to be walking around in the middle east when they should have known that he also was a target.

Something about this story is a little too fishy IMHO.

28 posted on 05/18/2004 12:42:08 PM PDT by Radioactive
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To: presidio9
In the Berg statement televised did he not allude to the fact that what you see is not real?
29 posted on 05/18/2004 12:42:35 PM PDT by bert (Don't Panic !)
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To: presidio9

When Nick Berg's body was discovered, was it in two parts?


30 posted on 05/18/2004 12:43:36 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (Save Terri Schiavo!!!)
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To: Florida_Freeper
I've seen this stat posted before and still have a hard time believing the human head contains 1.5 gallons of blood.

Just picture a milk gallon jug (and then 1/2 again) on your shoulders...

Ah, but the human heads at Pravda are not filled with brains.

Of course, it's a LIE. The human head may be 1.5 gallons in displacement, but that's hardly the same thing, despite what the tin-foil crowd says. Frankly, NONE of the supposed 'evidence' is evidentiary, it's supposition, and usually about such peripheral issues the assertion that they're relevatory is desperation.

31 posted on 05/18/2004 12:46:40 PM PDT by atomicpossum (Hey, I wouldn't touch Camryn Manheim's uterus on a bet.)
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To: presidio9
There was obviously a lot of clip and past in the video to edit it to an effective product. Showing a lot of blood squirting would not be effective in getting lots of people to watch it, okay, that is the goal of the video. Almost certainly Berg was drugged before the killing rendering him helpless and easy to kill.

The orange jumpsuit was odd as he was found in his original street clothes. That may have been an anti-escape tactic. Berg didn't see this result coming when he made his statements.

32 posted on 05/18/2004 12:46:52 PM PDT by gandalftb
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To: presidio9

WARNING: Reader"s discretion advised] A human head contains 1.5 gallons of blood

Wrong, Dr. Science, the entire human body has only 5 quarts. Then again, your head may contain 1.5 gallons of liquid ... that would explain a lot.

33 posted on 05/18/2004 12:47:39 PM PDT by tx_eggman (Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit softly. Teddy Roosevelt)
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To: presidio9
3) The US media says the audio says that N. Berg was executed in retaliation to the US prison abuse.

I believe they actually stated this in the $#(*&%@# video, didn't they?

34 posted on 05/18/2004 12:50:00 PM PDT by atomicpossum (Hey, I wouldn't touch Camryn Manheim's uterus on a bet.)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: joyce11111

"GEE, THIS COULD BE A FAKE...WHERE IS THE BLOOD."

I saw the video, and it was of very poor quality, to be sure. However, I did note what sure seemed to be a pool of blood on the floor, to the right of the head as it was being sawed off. There was what certainly appeared -- at least to me -- to be a visible blood spill of some size. I didn't see just one guy holding Berg down, but at least two, and perhaps three (the video was clearly spliced, or stopped, and then restarted, as evidenced by the time record).


36 posted on 05/18/2004 12:50:22 PM PDT by ought-six
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To: ought-six

People..he was on our payroll if you know what I mean.


37 posted on 05/18/2004 12:51:46 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Liberalism is communism one drink at a time)
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To: presidio9
3) The US media says the audio says that N. Berg was executed in retaliation to the US prison abuse.

I believe they actually stated this in the $#(*&%@# video, didn't they?

38 posted on 05/18/2004 12:52:04 PM PDT by atomicpossum (Hey, I wouldn't touch Camryn Manheim's uterus on a bet.)
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To: ought-six

This raises yet another good point, there was blood all over the ground where they appeared to be sawing his head off, so why was there no blood on his outfit nor on the head itself??????????


39 posted on 05/18/2004 12:53:37 PM PDT by isatoi (Yesterday is history. Tomorrow a mystery.. Today is a gift. That's why it's called the present!)
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To: presidio9

Have the body exhumed and then we'll know for sure.


40 posted on 05/18/2004 12:55:00 PM PDT by familyofman
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To: presidio9

Pravda is going back to the old tactics-- make up the lie and repeat it often enough and it will become truth. They're outlining the road map for the conspiracy crowd to follow, who will never use their critical thinking to question the 'troubling questions.' Propaganda.


41 posted on 05/18/2004 12:55:10 PM PDT by atomicpossum (Hey, I wouldn't touch Camryn Manheim's uterus on a bet.)
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To: presidio9

Sure it could have been a fake. He could have lost his head in a nasty laundry accident. But I'm thinking probably not.


42 posted on 05/18/2004 12:55:44 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: presidio9

I feel like Dan Rather using trite sayings to describe the situation, but anyway....

Pravada - The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The barbaric decapitation - None are so blind as those who will not see.


43 posted on 05/18/2004 12:59:08 PM PDT by Eva
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To: isatoi
....and if you watch the video closely, when they knock him over he has the exact same expression on his face as he does in the end. He was like a sack of potatoes, limp. Which could stand to show that he could have possibly been dead already like the man is saying.
44 posted on 05/18/2004 1:00:02 PM PDT by isatoi (Yesterday is history. Tomorrow a mystery.. Today is a gift. That's why it's called the present!)
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To: Billthedrill
The Problem with Pravda
45 posted on 05/18/2004 1:00:51 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: Billthedrill

Actually the hooded individuals in the video were Penn, Teller, David Copperfield and David Blaine.


46 posted on 05/18/2004 1:00:56 PM PDT by AngieGOP (Now where did I put my tinfoil tiara?)
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To: presidio9
This thread brought to you by...


47 posted on 05/18/2004 1:01:05 PM PDT by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: presidio9
Nick Berg was not Jewish.

Nick Berg's father said that he was Jewish, that's good enough for me.

Berg's father said his son was Jewish and had a fringed religious cloth with him, but he did not think Berg wore the clothing in public. Still, "there's a better chance than not that they knew he was Jewish," Michael Berg said. "If there was any doubt that they were going to kill him that probably clinched it, I'm guessing.

CNN

48 posted on 05/18/2004 1:02:05 PM PDT by Hillary's Lovely Legs (I am trying to stop an outbreak here and you're driving the monkey to the airport.)
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To: presidio9
Nick Berg was not Jewish.

Why was his funeral held at a conservative Jewish synagogue?

A hot and hazy afternoon became momentarily cool Friday when a gentle breeze blew clouds over Kesher Israel Congregation and the surrounding land. The clouds themselves weren’t unusual, but their appearance moments before a memorial service for murdered West Chester resident Nicholas Berg made it seem as if nature itself was calling for a moment of silent reflection.

Berg, the 26-year-old whose beheaded body was found along a Baghdad road last weekend, was buried Friday morning. His memorial service mid-afternoon drew hundreds of mourners to Kesher Israel, located off Pottstown Pike in West Goshen.


49 posted on 05/18/2004 1:02:10 PM PDT by george wythe
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To: presidio9

'Course it was fake! It was only a movie, don't you know? Only a movie.


50 posted on 05/18/2004 1:04:45 PM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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