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We Bombed the Wrong Side in Kosovo
G2mil ^ | Summer 2004 | Carlton Meyer

Posted on 05/29/2004 12:24:36 PM PDT by Destro

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To: Jane_N
Jane.

The International Action Committee is not a source of information you would want to associate yourself with.

imperialist media

At least not if you're serious about being taken seriously.

Are you serious? And why did you, not a week ago, confirm that you were of the opinion that a massacre had taken place at Racak only to post this trash this week?

Which is it?

101 posted on 06/01/2004 12:02:02 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Jane_N
You really ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Human Rights Watch investigation finds: Yugoslav Forces Guilty of War Crimes in Racak, Kosovo  -- Human Rights Watch, January 29, 1999
The Ghost Village -- Gordana Igric, Institute for War and Peace Reporting, February 1, 1999
The Racak Case in the Belgrade Media -- Helsinki Watch, February 1999
Report of the EU Forensic Expert Team on the Racak Incident Statement of Dr. Ranta, March 17, 1999
Racak killings 'crime against humanity' -- BBC, March 17, 1999
Dr. Helena Ranta: "They were unarmed civilians." -- BBC Interview with Dr. Ranta, March 17, 1999 (Audio)
Orla Guerin reports: "Hundreds were needed to carry the coffins." -- BBC, March 17, 1999 (Audio)
Report: Kosovo killings "crime against humanity" -- CNN, March 17, 1999
Racak Report Finds Serbs Guilty -- The Guardian, March 18, 1999
Kosovo: The Crime of Racak  -- Society for Threatened Peoples (Germany), March 18, 1999
War Crimes Indictment of Milosevic and others, Section 66 (a) -- May 22, 1999 (Amended October 16, 2001)
KOSOVO / KOSOVA: As Seen, As Told (Part V) OSCE Kosovo Verification Mission, July 1999
Raçak - Mutation of a Massacre -- Peter Wuttke, November 18, 1999 (Translated March 2002)
The Work of the Forensic Expert Team (Executive Summary)
  -- July 2000
Independent forensic autopsies in an armed conflict: investigation of the victims from Racak, Kosovo
-- Forensic Science International, February 2001
The Bloodbath in Racak was a Massacre -- NRC Handelsblad, March 10, 2001
FAIR Misrepresents the Racak Massacre
-- Roger Lippman, April 30, 2001
NEW The Kosovo Verification Mission at Racak -- Alex J. Bellamy, 2002
Milosevic Challenged by Racak Survivors -- Gordana Igric, IWPR, February 18, 2002
Tribunal Judges Restrict Racak Evidence --
Mirko Klarin, IWPR, May 27, 2002
Somebody has to do this job -- Bernhard Odehnal, Weltwoche, June 20, 2002

Finnish investigator Helena Ranta to testify at Milosevic trial -- Helsingin Sanomat, November 26, 2002
Helena Ranta's Testimony at The Hague - Transcript March 12, 2003
Expert Testifies Racak Not Staged Coalition for International Justice, March 12, 2003
Helena Ranta testifies at Milosevic trial in The Hague -- Helsingin Sanomat, March 13, 2003


102 posted on 06/01/2004 12:50:59 PM PDT by GeraldP ("Non-violence never solved anything." - Homer)
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To: Jane_N; A. Pole
A. Pole, I included you as Jane addressed her post to both of us.

Jane, I understand it is an article of faith among many that “Racak was a lie,” but the issue should be decided on facts, not faith. Perhaps your article lost something in the translation, but there are no new facts in it. And, more importantly, there is nothing in the article that refutes the central charge at Racak, that Serb forces murdered Albanian non-combatants. The article breathlessly reports that there was fighting in Racak, that there were Serb casualties, an Albanian body was moved, and that KLA fighters are buried near-by. None of that is new—it has all been reported before and can be read in the ICTY transcripts as well as in Gerald’s post above and my previous post.

Even Dr. Ranta’s reluctance to use the word massacre was reported years ago—she says it is a legal term and it was not her role to make such judgments: "The Racak events have been described as a 'massacre,'" the [Dr. Ranta’s] report said. "However, such a conclusion does not fall within the competence of the European Union forensic team or any other person having participated solely in the investigation of the bodies. The term 'massacre' ... is a legal description of the circumstances surrounding the deaths of persons as judged from comprehensive analysis of all available information."

Some other Dr. Ranta quotes quotes:

...the killing of dozens of unarmed ethnic Albanian civilians in Kosovo in January was a "crime against humanity."

the bodies in the gully “were most likely shot where found.”

"There were no indications of the people being other than unarmed civilians," (same link as above)

And also from the link above, a conclusion of the forensic team was: From the pattern of bullet wounds, clothing and possessions on the victims, the pathologists found no reason to conclude they were killed accidentally or were members of the KLA.

Perhaps it was just slow news day in Berlin, but there is nothing new in the Zeitunger article and there is certainly nothing in there to prove that “Racak was a lie.”

103 posted on 06/01/2004 2:12:23 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: Hoplite; GeraldP

Hoplite:

Excuse me? I was not, a week ago or at any other time, of the opinion that a massacre had happened in Racak. I agreed that something awful had happened there yes, as anytime civilians get killed when caught up in cross fire between two rival groups is awful. But it does not mean I agree that Racak was a massacre.

I have as much reason to believe the IAC as you do to trust the ICG who has Soros as one of their lead figures. But than anyone who throws a shadow of a doubt on the "legitimate" reasoning for bombing Serbia is considered unrealiable by you.

GeraldP:

There are more recent articles as per 2004 that cast a doubt on the links you posted. And they are not from the IAC.

"In an attempt to bring the truth to light, Dr. Ranta is demanding that evidence connected with Racak, including photographs of the scene, be released. Dr. Ranta believes that photographs exist which would demonstrate that non-Serb authorities tampered with the physical evidence at Racak." http://www.inatoday.com/clinton%20clark%20war%20012504.htm

Although Ranta made the charges that directly led to the NATO intervention, her team's full report was suppressed by the U.N. and the EU for a full two years, until February 2001. When it was finally published in Forensic Science International, the report revealed that there was no evidence of a massacre, even though the OSCE observer mission in Kosovo, led by U.S. diplomat William Walker, was quick to come to such a conclusion. http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27423

This year, the Finnish pathologist Helena Ranta, who led forensic investigations into the Racak case, told the Berliner Zeitung of Jan. 17 that Serb security troops were also killed and that there was no proof that the dead bodies she examined were civilians or had been executed. http://www.workers.org/ww/2004/kosovo0401.php

And then you have from Znet which I'm guessing you won't recognise as it is rather anti-nato or pro serb or whatever you want to call it, whatever it is, it does not toe the party line so that makes it "illegitimate", right?

Lippman cites for documentation of a massacre of 45 civilians at Racak, the "independent investigators" of Human Rights Watch and the EU's Forensic Experts Team. In general in his critiques Lippman's independent investigators are not very independent. Human Rights Watch was a protagonist in the Balkan Wars, always urging intervention by force and, most famously, issuing a report on NATO's bombing of Serbia that denied any NATO war crimes (Amnesty International, much more independent, found them in plenitude). HRW's report on Racak was one of the most outrageous ever-coming late, interviewing with complete gullibility 14 Kosovo Albanian witnesses from a KLA-dominated village, who claimed to have seen the massacre. But a French reporter, Christophe Chatelet, a journalist from Le Monde, arrived at Racak on the very afternoon of the attack, and was told by OSCE personnel that nothing of interest had happened (Le Monde, Jan. 21, 1999). On the following day Chatelet and Le Figaro reporter Renaud Girard looked at the video made by AP photographers who had been invited to witness the events and saw nothing suggestive of a massacre. The photographers and video have been kept unavailable since then. Those 14 witnesses showed themselves only to HRW, not to the truly independent observers, who might have been inclined to take issue with their accounts.

OSCE and the photographers had been invited by the Serbs to accompany their attack on Racak, a KLA stronghold, an amazing thing to do if they were intending to slaughter civilians. Amazing also that they left dozens of bodies to be found and capitalized on by the KLA and William Walker, especially when, on other occasions we are expected to believe that bodies were buried and in some cases reburied and even transported in refrigerated trucks hundreds of miles to hide Serb crimes from a watching world. The alternative, which I believe is true, is that the KLA collected the bodies of dead KLA fighters and put them in the gully, counting on the Western establishment to swallow a massacre, which Albright and company eagerly desired to provide the casus belli for a long-planned attack.

The EU Forensic team study of Racak has never been released, which is suggestive of its conclusions, as the EU was hardly a neutral and "independent" body. The team leader of that study, Helena Ranta, has spoken about Racak with great discomfort and hesitation, and contradicted herself frequently. She was under great pressure from William Walker and EU officials to toe the party line, and she has looked foolish. On one occasion, with obvious reluctance, she declared that the Racak deaths were a "crime against humanity," but quickly followed this by saying that killing one individual was a crime against humanity (the media left out this followup statement). At one point she said that the victims appeared to be unarmed civilians, but in testimony before the Tribunal in the Milosevic case she retreated. She limited herself to saying that "At the time-at that time, there was no indication of them being anything but unarmed civilians." (p. 17727) In fact, she explicitly denied having claimed any "executions" ("I never used the word 'executed'." [p. 17770]) Her hedging reflected the fact that in the Tribunal hearings she had been made well aware of the fact that some of the autopsied bodies were dressed in ways that suggested that they had been fighters, and in her press conference in Pristina back in 1999 she noted that "medicolegal investigations cannot give a conclusive answer to the question of whether there was a battle or whether the victims died under some other circumstances." This conflicts with her ambiguous statement before the Tribunal as well as her earlier statement that "They were most likely killed where they were found," a statement based on hearsay, and offered despite the fact that she didn't arrive on the scene until a week later and acknowledged that there had been no "chain of custody" of the bodies.

Ranta has retreated further since than, saying recently that there should be an investigation of the fighting at Racak, suggesting that bodies had been moved around there, criticizing Walker for asserting that there had been a massacre, asking "why the Tribunal is not interested in" the number of Serbs killed at Racak, and calling into question the poor procedures followed in gathering evidence (Markus Bickel, "Work of the Hague Tribunal in Racak Case Criticized," Berliner Zeitung, Jan. 17, 2004). She now recognizes the possibility that many or all of the bodies found were fighters, consistent with the evidence of gunpowder residues on the fingers of most of them. While Ranta retreats, and the OSCE continues to refuse to release the EU report, three forensic doctors on the EU team finally did publish an account of their findings in an article on the Racak evidence, "Independent forensic autopsies," in the Forensic Science International in 2001. These analysts reported finding a bizarre set of bullet paths that do not fit a picture of a firing squad mowing down a row of standing people. They also found only one example of a body that had been subjected to "close-range firing." The authors also stated that the Yugoslav and Finnish teams discussed the autopsy findings "in full professional consensus…In both groups the final conclusions were equally strong." These analysts denied any capacity to determine whether the bodies were of "unarmed civilians."

These comments by the three Finnish forensic experts are worth more than those of Helena Ranta, who was under intense pressure from William Walker, the U.S. official who had orchestrated the "massacre" claims, and the OSCE, to give the desired politically correct answers. I would say the "independent" evidence supports the staged event model, not the party line model.

That's just a small example of articles about Helena Ranta this year. For more just do a search on Google.





104 posted on 06/01/2004 2:22:41 PM PDT by Jane_N (Truth, like beauty....is in the eyes of the beholder!)
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To: Jane_N

I admire Helenta Ranta's professionalism. However, it is that same professionalism which has been taken and used by many people to discredit what is quite clearly her opinion, that unarmed civilians were found murdered in Racak. A pathologists job is not to make statements such as "it was a massacre" or "the Serbs did it". What you claim to be her backtracking, is nothing more than her attempt to maintain the ethics of her profession. The INA article you quoted makes Dr. Ranta sound quite different than anything else she's ever said. (She's been called everything, from a liar to a NATO puppet, on Serb ultranationalist sites).

The fact remains, that indication of a "staged massacre" are circumstantial at best, and most of those who support the notion, do so on a "ideology-over-fact" basis. I do not have facts, I don't believe anybody here does, but there is nothing to convince me to dismiss the account of living witnesses, backed up by OSCE and HRW and PHR etc. These recounts sound very much like the ones I have heard with my own ears. (Please spare me the Rajmonda story, even "circumstantial" is an overstatement for it.)

I was not trying to be antagonistic when I said you should be ashamed of yourself, I am only very frustrated to keep hearing this "staged massacre" story when it is obvious there is no firm basis for it. Yes there is one or two good points, but they do not justify the revisionism evident in your post. My position is that such revisionism is disrespectful to those who lost their lives, and abating those who took them. Please remember that Racak was neither the first, nor the last of these events. The "Racak conspiracy theory" should be put to rest for as long as there is no reasonable evidence for it, and we are really quite distant from that being the case.


105 posted on 06/01/2004 3:02:54 PM PDT by GeraldP ("Non-violence never solved anything." - Homer)
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To: Dubya's fan

Dubya's fan, a warning. There are a lot of pro-Serb posters here who have used American action in the War on Terrorism to bring us over to "their" side against the Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. They also think that because Clinton was President during the American intervention, and we don't like Clinton, then we should be in favor of Milosevic.

It's really pathetic but a few people fall for it. It's best to stay away from these threads, people aren't interested in discussing the truth.

What happened in Bosnia was a tragedy and I am glad the murderers (on all sides, but principally among the Serbs) are being brought to justice.


106 posted on 06/01/2004 3:12:45 PM PDT by HostileTerritory
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To: Dubya's fan

Dubya's fan, a warning. There are a lot of pro-Serb posters here who have used American action in the War on Terrorism to bring us over to "their" side against the Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. They also think that because Clinton was President during the American intervention, and we don't like Clinton, then we should be in favor of Milosevic.

It's really pathetic but a few people fall for it. It's best to stay away from these threads, people aren't interested in discussing the truth.

What happened in Bosnia was a tragedy and I am glad the murderers (on all sides, but principally among the Serbs) are being brought to justice.


107 posted on 06/01/2004 3:12:58 PM PDT by HostileTerritory
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To: Jane_N
But it does not mean I agree that Racak was a massacre.

Well let's just set the WABAC machine to 5/21/04...

Me:  You didn't raise a stink about Racak when Bo Pellnas referred to the 23 men as having been executed in the article you posted, so I didn't really have any reason to suspect you'd subscribe to the idiocy surrounding the subject.

You don't, do you?

You:   I didn't "raise a stink" as you so eloquently put it in the Bo Pellnäs thread as it was not relevent to the conversation. I have never denied that Albanians were killed in Racak in any of my posts either.

So, just so I understand you completely here, Jane, what you're saying now is that you weren't agreeing with Bo's assertions concerning the massacre at Racak, but were instead, through some acrobatic gyration known only to you, maintaining that nobody was massacred at Racak while only implying that you were of the opposite viewpoint, and that you do subscribe to the idiocy surrounding the subject.

there is a difference between 23 killed/executed and 350,000 being "expelled".

I guess "/executed" is Australian or Swedish for "but not executed"?

Don't you just hate it that your previous statements are still available? It's kind of like Balkans history - you can misrepresent it all you want, as many are wont to do, but the lies never hold up under close scrutiny, which leaves the parties propagating those lies with a tough choice between coming clean or producing more lies - kind of makes your posts just a small example of the overall Balkans discussion here on FR.

The EU Forensic team study of Racak has never been released, which is suggestive of its conclusions, as the EU was hardly a neutral and "independent" body.

A copy of the EU Forensics Team's report on Racak, by the way, was delivered to the district court in Pristina on March 17th of 1999 - if it has been suppressed, it is with the complicity of Slobodan Milosevic.

Congratulations Jane, you're now a fully fledged member of FR's Serbian wolfpack.

Howl away.

108 posted on 06/01/2004 3:21:03 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

You are almost amusing....as I said in my reply to you as per post #104 which was a reply to your question: "And why did you, not a week ago, confirm that you were of the opinion that a massacre had taken place at Racak only to post this trash this week?"

I was not, a week ago or at any other time, of the opinion that a massacre had happened in Racak. I agreed that something awful had happened there yes, as anytime civilians get killed when caught up in cross fire between two rival groups is awful. But it does not mean I agree that Racak was a massacre.

Compared to the post on the thread by Bo Pellnäs: I have never denied that Albanians were killed in Racak in any of my posts either.

Not denying that Albanians were killed is not the same as being of the opinion that Racak was a massacre. Where you got that from I have no idea.

"Don't you just hate it that your previous statements are still available?" Yes I absolutely do, as they show that your accusations are false and a misrepresentation of my words. So Thank you!

"Congratulations Jane, you're now a fully fledged member of FR's Serbian wolfpack." Cute :)


109 posted on 06/01/2004 3:43:05 PM PDT by Jane_N (Truth, like beauty....is in the eyes of the beholder!)
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To: Jane_N

""Don't you just hate it that your previous statements are still available?" Yes I absolutely do, as they show that your accusations are false and a misrepresentation of my words. So Thank you!"

Oops! Should be: No I don't hate it, in fact I love it, as they show that your accusations are false and a misrepresentation of my words. So Thank you!"




110 posted on 06/01/2004 3:47:05 PM PDT by Jane_N (Truth, like beauty....is in the eyes of the beholder!)
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To: Jane_N
So, they were killed, they were executed, but they weren't massacred?

What's the definition of 'massacre' in your world?

Try to explain it without the use of '/', whatever that's supposed to mean where you live.

111 posted on 06/01/2004 4:28:42 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: SunnyUsa

bump to read later


112 posted on 06/01/2004 4:33:58 PM PDT by SunnyUsa
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To: Jane_N
The alternative, which I believe is true, is that the KLA collected the bodies of dead KLA fighters and put them in the gully,

Unfortunately, Jane, there is zero evidence to back your claim. No witnesses, no forensic evidence. The converse, however, that they were civilians shot and killed by Serbs is supported by eyewitnesses who saw the Serbs take the men out of the village toward the gully, by the statements of the four Albanian men who escaped from the shooters, by the forensic team that says the Albanians were shot & killed in the gully in the clothes they were wearing when found, and is even supported by reports of communications intercepts of Serb officials discussing Racak.

You quoted a couple excerpts from Dr. Ranta's testimony in your post--here is the transcript of her whole testimony--pay particular attention to page 17711 where an article about Ranta's findings is put into evidence:

she, that is Dr. Ranta, got all the

3 facts. She now knows where the bullets were fired from, point blank, not,

4 as the Serbs and Belorussians claim, from a distance of 200 metres. She

5 knows how many weapons were fired, what kind of bullets were used, that

6 the victims were shot in the clothes in which they were found, not in UCK

7 uniforms, and that they were shot where they were found. Under the

8 surface, investigators found a bullet along with fragments of human teeth.

9 These tooth fragments were found to be missing from a corpse lying

10 precisely in that location. The DNA was identical.

11 "By the middle of 2001, Ranta had convincing proof that Racak had

12 not been faked, but the German and French media continued to hypothesise a

13 Western conspiracy. You can imagine this is you being quoted. You can

14 imagine how I [Dr. Ranta]suffered, but I wouldn't say a word. I wouldn't influence

15 the public."

and further down in the transcript, she is asked to verify the accuracy of the above story:

9 Q. Quite right. But as to the gully, the way you were reported,

10 subject to the qualifications expressed in the letter to Mr. Curtis, was

11 accurate.

12 A. Yes.

Jane, I can see from the sources you cite that you like to read the left-wing, anti-American press; so I understand why you hold an opinion so contrary to the facts. I recommend you go primary source--read the eye-witness statements. Read what Dr. Ranta actually said, not what The Emperors New Clothes or Worker World Daily "reports" that she said.

113 posted on 06/01/2004 4:50:15 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: Hoplite
The International Action Committee is not a source of information you would want to associate yourself with.

If IAC stands for the truth, God bless them. Show trial in Hague and vile anti-Serbian propaganda is an abomination.

114 posted on 06/01/2004 5:48:59 PM PDT by A. Pole ("Stating the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men." George Orwell)
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To: A. Pole
"If"?

What do you mean "If"?

Can you lower the intellectual bar any further without a shovel?

115 posted on 06/01/2004 6:08:41 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: mark502inf; Wraith
Racak was a anti-KLA village

The KLA went in and gangpressed villagers that morning as per KLA commander Buja's ICTY testimony

The firefight was filmed by a ABC camera crew. The film directly contradicts 'eyewitness' accounts parroted by HumWarrior media.

Post June 1999, the KLA refused to allow a Kfor judical team into Racak to complete their investigation

Post June 1999, Kfor has arrested virtually the entire KLA leadership cadre for a systemic terror campaign against anti-KLA villagers

...................it is pretty easy to connect the dots to understand what happened to the KLA's gangpressed villagers. The Vietcong also used similar tactics.

116 posted on 06/02/2004 10:47:02 AM PDT by vooch
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To: GeraldP
Yawn

Your list is nothing more than a series of agit-prop whose original sources can be traced to KLA mouthpieces

117 posted on 06/02/2004 10:48:26 AM PDT by vooch
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To: Wolverine
Why hasn't Wesley Clark been called on the carpet for this?

He was fired

118 posted on 06/02/2004 10:50:47 AM PDT by vooch
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To: Dubya's fan
How's Rustem Mustafa and his buddies Commander Gashi doing ?

What about Drini ? which KLA guy iced him ?

119 posted on 06/02/2004 10:52:45 AM PDT by vooch
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To: mark502inf

Explain us....How comes that William Walker (I bet you know his name) is on the "honorary board" of the NAAC (National Albanian American Council)...???

http://www.naac.org/board.html

Strange isn't it...????


120 posted on 06/02/2004 9:02:06 PM PDT by dj_animal_2000
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To: vooch; DTA; Seselj; FormerLib
Racak was a anti-KLA village

Doubtful. The Serbs had a problem winning hearts and minds in Racak--something about burning 80 houses there in August 98 and then coming back in January 99 and massacring the citizens. Although it is true that some of the citizens were undertandably resentful that the KLA garrison in Racak did not fight better to protect their friends and neighbors from being murdered by the Serb forces.

The KLA went in and gangpressed villagers that morning as per KLA commander Buja's ICTY testimony

I've read Buja's testimony. There is nothing in there to support what you say. The KLA was routed first thing that morning and not able to re-enter even the edge of the village until after the Serb forces left at dark. The transcripts are here and here. Please show me what he said to back-up your claim.

The firefight was filmed by a ABC camera crew. The film directly contradicts 'eyewitness' accounts parroted by HumWarrior media.

Well, Vooch--give some examples how the film "directly contradicts" the eyewitnesses. Eyewitnesses say the Serb police rounded up close to 30 men and led them away up the hill to where most of them were killed. Is there a film clip showing the KLA doing that instead of the Serbs? Eyewitnesses--also known as survivors--escaped through the woods as the Serbs massacred the men in the gully. How is that contradicted? And btw, it was an AP photographer, not an ABC camera crew.

As for evidence that "directly contradicts" other evidence--read the transcripts above and you can read excerpts from two official Serb reports on Racak issued within a day of each other. One says that the Serb forces killed 15 KLA and the other says they killed sixty. So which is right, 15 or 60? And who killed them—however many there were—Serbs or the KLA or—maybe it was MPRI? And of course there was the report in the Washington Post providing excerpts from telephone conversations between Serbian Interior Ministry General Sreten Lukic and Yugoslav Deputy Prime Minister Nikola Sainovic, who ordered Serb forces to “go in heavy” in Racak. The two later discussed ways that the killings might be covered up to avoid international condemnation.

So lets recap: Forensic reports say the Albanians were unarmed civilians killed where they were found in the gully and that they were killed in the clothes they were wearing when found. Eyewitnesses saw the Serbs lead the Albanians in the direction of the gully and then heard gunfire. Four survivors escaped the massacre and told of the group being mowed down by Serbs.

The Serb stories are that there were 15 dead, no wait 60. They were KLA killed by Serb security forces. But wait, they’re not wearing uniforms! So, they were KLA killed in the battle, but the other KLA changed them into civilian clothes and planted them in the gully in order to blame the Serbs. Uh-oh, the forensic team says that the bullet holes and congealed blood all indicate that the bodies were killed in the civilian clothes they were wearing. Oh, now we have it! They were in fact civilians, but were killed by the KLA in order to blame the Serbs! Pay no attention to the facts that there are no eyewitnesses and zero evidence of any kind to support any of those stories. That OJ Simpson would have been embarrassed to have a story that weak.

There is a Greater Truth to be served: The blameless Serbs are not to be blamed. Eyewitnesses—hah! Forensic reports—hah! The Serbs may only have opinions, conjecture, and irrelevancies on their side(s), but after all the dead were just shiptars--mostly moslem, right? And they “breed” so fast! Besides, since 1389, the Serbs have defended Christian Europe and rescued 500 American flyers in the process. No one should dare to beat you! Whoops, started channeling Slobo for a few seconds.

Vooch, wanna know why Serbia is last in line for PfP, NATO, the EU, and even US Aid; behind even Macedonia, Croatia, Albania, and Bosnia? Wanna know why Serbia has a problem getting Serb war criminals released to be tried in Belgrade? Wanna know why Secretary Rumsfeld and Secretary Powell visit Albania and Macedonia, but take a wide berth around Serbia? Wanna know why the USA is asking for help in the War on Terror from just about every country in the world, but won’t accept Serbian troops? Its because of the culture of denial exemplified by you and your fellow-travelers on the Balkans threads. Serb war-crimes are obvious, yet any Serb politician attempting to address them gets shot or almost voted out; a la the Foreign Minister last week. Serbia cannot be trusted and until they can be, they will be on the outside looking in. I think Kostunica and Vuk know the truth and also know what needs to be done, but they are afraid of getting Djindjic’d and therefore are moving very cautiously. Unfortunately, instead of playing a constructive role, you & DTA & Seselj & Former Lib continue to sing chorus after chorus of "Didn't do it, can't prove it, they deserved it"

121 posted on 06/02/2004 9:14:36 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: dj_animal_2000
Include yourself in the august group addressed in my previous post.

And, btw, William Walker is a great American who at the request of President Reagan and at the risk of his life represented the USA in Latin America and played a key role in defeating the communists and helping our allies in El Salvador, Honduras, and Nicaragua. For which he will never be forgiven by Chris Dodd, CISPES, and the NY Times. It does not surprise me that Slobo fans are also his enemy.

122 posted on 06/02/2004 9:20:45 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf; vooch; DTA; Seselj

Every "fact" that you cite is not a fact at all. These are things that are in dispute, are contradicted by eyewitness accounts, and/or are propaganda wrapped around half-truths at best.

One day, the Moslems will kill someone that you care about. Count on that, it WILL happen.

When it does, you may begin reviewing these "facts" without your conclusion already firmly placed in your mind and then, maybe then, you might realize the truth.

Of course, your enlightenment will come at quite a price.


123 posted on 06/02/2004 9:25:21 PM PDT by FormerLib (It's the 99% of Mohammedans that make the other 1% look bad.)
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To: FormerLib
One day, the Moslems will kill someone that you care about. Count on that, it WILL happen.

This photo is of Major Cliff Patterson. He was going to get out of the Army--I talked him into staying. I then tried talking him into going to the Balkans with me--he wanted to stay in Washington,--his Dad is a D.C. cop. He was killed in the Pentagon on 9-11.


124 posted on 06/02/2004 10:26:19 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: Destro

Savage has been right since the start. He was the only one I can remember that said this.


125 posted on 06/02/2004 10:34:16 PM PDT by Brimack34 (The media hates America. Hate them back)
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To: Dubya's fan
It is nice that you are an Albanian patriot and like your country and your people, but it is wrong to state outright lies. Your statement "In Europe, only the Alban people support the OP Iraqi Freedom" is an insult to the Poles and Italians who bleed and die in Iraq.

I wonder why almost every Albanian who post here on FR claims things that are mix of fiction and deliberate lies.

126 posted on 06/03/2004 6:22:39 AM PDT by DTA (you ain't seen nothing yet)
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To: DTA

I'm not from Albania. I'm only defending a people that supports America and loves freedom.

The Italian people and the Polish people don't support OP Iraqi Freedom. However, the Eastern countries like Poland or Albania are pro-American countries. Albania is the most pro-American of them.


127 posted on 06/03/2004 6:29:28 AM PDT by Reader of news
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To: mark502inf
It does not surprise me that Slobo fans are also his enemy.

And I see that you've fallen into the trap that anyone on the side of the Serbian people is also somehow on the same side as the commie thug Slobodan Milosevic.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The Serbian people are not some single-minded monolithic force. That you would even suggest such (and you have in your postings) has fallen prey to the first goal of propaganda: to dehumanize the enemy.

The fact is that the Communists held Serbia in the typically brutal Communist fashion and particularly oppressed the Serbian Orthodox Church. Most of the pro-Serb posters on this board support the Christian Serbs, not the Communist ones.

It doesn't take much looking to realize that the crimes committed by "the Serbs" were in fact committed by Serb Communists. Yet, in Kosovo, we see that it is the Christian Serbs who are being smacked about by the Muslim terrorists. The Serbs have gone from getting kicked by their own Communist thugs to getting kicked by someone else's Islamic thugs.

You'll just have to forgive us for not wanting to see the Serbs getting kicked just because it is someone else who is doing the kicking.

As Americans, we also have to notice that the people who are attacking the Serbs spring from the same well as those who attacked our country on Sept. 11th.

It is unfortunate that the US didn't persue a Contra-style method of removing Milosevic. The Serbs weren't far away from giving Slobo the Ceaucescu treatment to end his career when Kaiser Willie started the illegal bombing campaign and helped turn Slobo into a national hero. That little twist alone is all the reason I need for not forgiving Bubba for what he did.

Wake up, mark! You've fallen for Clinton's propaganda!

128 posted on 06/03/2004 6:33:30 AM PDT by FormerLib (It's the 99% of Mohammedans that make the other 1% look bad.)
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To: mark502inf; Destro; A. Pole
>>>>>>1991 1956000 82 10 8<<<<<<

So, liberal claim "Kosovo, province of Serbia whose 90% Albanian population favors independence" was a big, fat lie?

More than 225,000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed in the presence of NATO troops in 1999, and some 100,000 remained in Kosovo.

If Serbs were indeed only 10% of Kosovo population (225,000+ 100,000), that would mean that total Kosovo population in 1999 was over 3 million.

This is of course nonsense.

The lie about Kosovo being 90% Albanian was made to justify the bombing and hide subsequent NATO-sponsored ethnic cleansing.

129 posted on 06/03/2004 6:35:14 AM PDT by DTA (you ain't seen nothing yet)
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To: Dubya's fan; DTA
Albania is the most pro-American of them.

Kosovo is not Albania, it is Serbia.

The Albanians currently occupying Kosovo represent displaced Mafia thugs who fled Albania's economic collapse along with the most radical and virulent Muslim radicals.

All in all, I'm sure Albania is glad to be rid of them!

But handing over part of someone else's country is not the answer. Their sustaining campaign of terrorism and illegal immigration must not be rewarded by giving them Kosovo independence. Particularly since we don't want to inspire their behavior is certain parts of our own nation.

130 posted on 06/03/2004 6:37:15 AM PDT by FormerLib (It's the 99% of Mohammedans that make the other 1% look bad.)
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To: mark502inf
And I am sorry that your friend lost his life in the Pentagon attack. Memory eternal!
131 posted on 06/03/2004 6:38:47 AM PDT by FormerLib (It's the 99% of Mohammedans that make the other 1% look bad.)
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To: Dubya's fan
>>>>>They are a very independent people - they fought against Nazis and Italian Fascists<<<<

Oh, that's the reason why Himler created 21st gebirgs-Waffen SS division Skenderbeg (Albanishe Nr.1), to fight against Nazis.

Please stop posting historical nonsense.

132 posted on 06/03/2004 6:45:08 AM PDT by DTA (you ain't seen nothing yet)
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To: Destro

bump.


133 posted on 06/03/2004 6:52:57 AM PDT by Mamzelle (for a post-neo conservatism)
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To: Destro
I freely admit I don't know the answer. The media has lied to me about who is doing what to whom, and I have no way to figure out the truth. Posters on FR are telling lies about the conflict based on what their personal biases are. Politicians I respect and others I despise are saying the same things, for different reasons.

If after twelve years the answer isn't clear to me (and I pay far more attention to this stuff than the average American voter) then the only conclusion I can draw is that it isn't clear to the government either, and we have no business being involved in the Balkans at all. Bush's first order of business should be to pull all of our troops out of the area. Send them to Iraq, where we at least have some idea who the bad guys are.

134 posted on 06/03/2004 6:53:14 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves
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To: mark502inf; Wraith; joan; wonders
Wraith, kindly explain to our misguided Mark502 that Racak was a anti-KLA village.

Warith, also kindly explain to Mark502 how Buja's gang trolled through the village and gangpressed (er 'asked for volunteers') that day. Tell him a bit about your pals Remi & Gashi.

Joan, please explain to poor Mark502 how the ABC film contradicts his beloved 'eyewitness' stories.

Wonders, you may wish to illuminate to Mark502 how guerillas/paramilitaries such as the KLA would use loyalist villages such as Racak as locations of firefights in order to force the population into extremism

135 posted on 06/03/2004 7:13:39 AM PDT by vooch
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To: GeraldP
Do you believe that quantity is good substitute for quality of information? Curiously enough, the extensive list you proivided does not mention the interview of Dr. Helena Ranta given to Berliner Zeitung January 17 2004 .

In this interview, already discussed here on FR Ranta revealed the mechanism behind the Racak hoax. It is high time for Albanian propagandists and suppporters paid by heroin money to admit this hoax also. Heck, you should be proud of pulling off the scam comparable to Gliewitz.

136 posted on 06/03/2004 8:03:12 AM PDT by DTA (you ain't seen nothing yet)
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To: FormerLib
Former Lib, if you want to solve a problem, the first step is to correctly identify it. The conflict in Kosovo is based on the political goal of the Albanians to gain self-rule; in the form of independence, incorporation into some type of regional Albanian entity, or substantial autonomy. They have had the same goal even before they were attached to Serbia by a Great Power compromise at the conclusion of the 1st Balkan War.

Prior to that, the Turks record over 40 Albanian revolts in Kosovo. The last one involved a 30,000 man Albanian force--mostly of Kosovars--that went so far as to capture Skopje from the Ottomans. The Kosovar Albanians have pursued self-rule regardless of whether they were under the control of Ottoman Muslims or Serbian Orthodox. They have tried insurrections, political movements, demonstrations & protests & strikes, forming alliances, establishing a parallel government and so on. All types of Albanians have participated in these movements; whether Sunni, Bektashi, Catholic, irreligious or whatever. And whoever opposes them becomes the enemy, whether Orthodox Serbs or Muslim Turks, Gorani, Roma & Ashkali.

The Kosovar Albanians have selected Christians as leaders in the KLA, elected Christians as leaders in their government, and have established secular law to include freedom of religion. They have not elected imams or mullahs, have not imposed sharia, etc. The Catholic Church has grown over the past five years and Albanian Catholic churches and priests operate openly and unmolested. Similarly with the Bektashi sect--they are sizable in Albania-proper and Kosovo, but are considered as heretics by most Muslims & would be attacked by Islamists just as readily as they would attack Christians.

The problem is not religion. It is the Albanian political goal of self-rule as opposed to continuted Serbian sovereignty. Add in the Kosovo position in Serb heritage, old ethnic rivalries and recent ethnic violence and the problem gets even thornier.

But this I guarantee you. A solution to the Kosovo problem, besides having to provide basic individual rights for all citizens, has to account for Serb heritage, Albanian demographics, Serb legal jurisdiction over Kosovo, and Kosovar Albanian demands for self-rule.

You think the problem is a Muslim-Christian one. Not only do the facts not support your premise, but any course of action designed to solve Kosovo based on that premise would be a waste of time and resources. Which is why nobody serious about the issue--either Serb or Albanian or international--is approaching the problem that way.

137 posted on 06/03/2004 8:24:22 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
The Catholic Church has grown over the past five years and Albanian Catholic churches and priests operate openly and unmolested.

In Albania, yes, but I do not believe the same is true of Kosovo.

138 posted on 06/03/2004 8:33:24 AM PDT by FormerLib (It's the 99% of Mohammedans that make the other 1% look bad.)
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To: DTA
DTA, you seem to be deficient in WWII Balkans history. Albania, along with Greece and Serbia, were conquered and occupied by the Axis in WWII. Those were the three countries in the Balkans that were the home of extensive resistance movements. Albania, although a much smaller county and on a much smaller scale, mirrored closely the resistance movement in Yugoslavia. They had anti-Axis nationalists, anti-Axis Royalists, and of course the communist Partisans under Tito-ally and future dictator Hoxha. Similar to the Chetnik-Partisan fights in Serbia, the Albanians did not just fight the Italians and Germans, but often each other.

Just like Serbia with Nedic, the Albanians had a puppet government although they did not have a home-grown fascist movement such as the Serbian "Zbor".

Now, DTA, what about these guys:

Serbisches Freiwilligen Korps der SS

You can read a little bit more about Serb collaborationist and SS forces here.

139 posted on 06/03/2004 8:51:56 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf

Mark...

I think, you didn't answer my question...and honestly I didn't ask what he did in South America for Reagan...

So...how comes that William Walker, a honorary member of the NAAC, was the first one who broke the news that there was a "massacre on civilians" by the serbian forces...???

hmmmmmmmm....What do you think, how much money did he get for his "fair" analyzis of the incident from his fellow brothers of the NAAC...???

If you are not ready to put 1 and 1 together, we did...!!!!


140 posted on 06/03/2004 9:14:02 AM PDT by dj_animal_2000
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To: dj_animal_2000
dj, I respect William Walker and that dates back to before his KVM time. Walker has a history as a straight shooter for both Reagan and Bush in some pretty pressurized circumstances in Latin America--I think that history is relevant to how he conducted himself in Kosovo; to include the absence of personal corruption in an environment where everyone from drug lords to communist agents and corrupt politicians would have loved to have him in their pocket.

Walker called it as he saw it at Racak. And the evidence supports him. I don't know how he came to be a member of NAAC, whether he was invited or asked to join, but if you think money was used to influence Walker's professional judgment at Racak, write to your congressman or to the State Department or call the nearest federal attorney's office and if it's true, let's get him in jail. For sure, you would not say our diplomat was bribed without some evidence, right?

141 posted on 06/03/2004 9:39:26 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf; DTA
Mark, it was the Serbs revolt against collaboration that got Belgrade bombed on Orthodox Easter in 1941.

Something that would be repeated by the American criminal Clinton almost a half-century later.

Anyway, run the numbers and you'll see that the Serb Quislings were a tiny minority of the population while the Muslims embraced their new Nazi masters with the same fervor that they used to show in prostrating themselves before the Turks.
142 posted on 06/03/2004 9:41:42 AM PDT by FormerLib (It's the 99% of Mohammedans that make the other 1% look bad.)
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To: FormerLib
Here are some Catholics in Kosovo stats: 65,000 Catholics, 55 priests, 67 nuns, and 23 parishes. The diocese of Prizren was actually part of the Skopje diocese until the year 2000. It is now its own entity under the wonderfully named Albanian Bishop Marko Sopi. I am in no way an expert on the organization of the Catholic Church, but I would think it would take the Vatican to make the decision to split a diocese. Further, that they would not have made Kosovo a separate diocese under its own bishop unless that area was a viable Catholic entity.
143 posted on 06/03/2004 10:01:38 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
>>>>>Now, DTA, what about these guys: <<<<<

If you look up Waffen SS Order of Battle you will not find "Serbisches Freiwilligen Korps der SS" in it. Because it was not part of Waffen SS while Serbia was occupied by the Nazis.

From the link you provided , allegedly Waffen SS took comand of SFK in NOVEMBER 1944.

Just to remind you that Serbia was liberated from the German Nazi occupation in OCTOBER 1944.

Or, for the historically impaired, Nazis took control of SFK when SFK LOST war in Serbia and fled from Partisans and Red Army.

You are as good as your sources are. And your sources suck- one man show by an amateur in Sweden (pro nazi?)

If you feel so compelled to lecture anyone on WWII history, perhaps you should first read the reputable sources to familiarize yourself with the subject. Good place to start are American books printed before 1989.

144 posted on 06/03/2004 10:26:57 AM PDT by DTA (you ain't seen nothing yet)
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To: DTA
Nazis took control of SFK when SFK LOST war in Serbia and fled from Partisans and Red Army.

Well done, DTA, you got that exactly right. As the Serbian Volunteer Corps, they were under the control of the Nedic collaborationist government from 1941-1944 and were well known for their hard fighting against the Partisan resistance organizations. Since they were Nazi collaborators it was natural they would flee when the Red Army arrived. So they did so and then continued to fight for the Nazi cause under the direct control of the SS.

perhaps you should first read the reputable sources to familiarize yourself with the [WWII]subject..Good place to start are American books ...

Why DTA, are you on some kind of 12-step recovery program? Yesterday, you admitted that innocent Albanians in Kosovo were killed by Serbs and today you confessed that reading American history books is a good idea. I applaud your progress and eagerly await what tomorrow will bring!

145 posted on 06/03/2004 11:28:47 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: FormerLib
Former Lib, Here's an interesting article on Catholics in Kosovo; written in an Orthodox Church publication.

From: ORTHODOX Digest - 5 Oct 2000 to 6 Oct 2000 (#2000-281) From: Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko

While we Orthodox fight among ourselves: Roman Catholicism Surplanting Orthodoxy in Kosovo

"A fertile birthrate and Serbian flight following the NATO bombing campaign has Kosovo Catholics in the ascendence"

By Frank Brown PRIZREN, Yugoslavia, Aug. 22

(RNS)--Throughout Kosovo, there are two major kinds of churches, Roman Catholic and Serbian Orthodox. It is easy to tell the difference. The Serbian Orthodox churches are notable for the NATO tanks parked outside, for the rows of coiled razor wire, for the sandbagged guardposts, and for the soldiers with automatic weapons who demand identification from visitors. Roman Catholic churches in Kosovo are unguarded and unfortified.

Kosovo's 60,000 Catholics, who make up about 4% of the province's population, are enjoying a period of long-awaited freedom and growth. At the same time, the once dominant Serbian Orthodox Church is under steady attack from ethnic Albanian Muslims here who identify the Serbian church with decades of government discrimination.

Because the vast majority of Kosovo Catholics are ethnic Albanians, there is little of the ethnic animosity that divides Orthodox Serbs and Muslim Albanians.

In a recent interview in his residence in Kosovo's second-largest city, Roman Catholic Bishop Marko Sopi spoke brightly of the church's future in the brutalized province, where a NATO-led military force and a United Nations administration are slowly restoring order. "If the economic conditions get better, we will grow. The birth rate is high, and as long as people stay here, we will grow," said Sopi, 62, noting that Catholic and Muslim families in Kosovo typically include four or five children.

An improving Kosovo economy may also lure back some of the 40,000 Kosovar Catholics who make up Albanian-language parishes in Croatia, Austria, Germany, and Detroit, Sopi said. The Vatican, too, would appear to have confidence in Kosovo's Catholics. In late June, it declared the province an apostolic administration and named Sopi apostolic administrator.

Under canon law, apostolic administrations are forerunners to full-fledged dioceses in regions where a diocesan structure is not practical. Previously, Kosovo was part of the diocese of Skopje, Macedonia, a country that achieved independence from Yugoslavia in 1991. If current trends continue, Roman Catholicism will supplant Serbian Orthodoxy as the dominant Christian faith in Kosovo.

About 150,000 Serbs have fled Kosovo in the last year since NATO forces led the return of ethnic Albanians. That leaves roughly 100,000 nominally Orthodox Serbs behind, living in a hostile and dangerous environment.

Bishop Sopi, a genial man with an authoritative bearing, said in an earlier interview that local Serbs' flight from Kosovo was a natural process. "One thing must be clear: The Serbs did not just run to Serbia because the Albanians were driving them out," he said, adding that the Serbs "behaved themselves very badly for the last 10 years and especially during the war, so they have reason to fear for their lives."

During 78 days of NATO bombing and Serb attacks on Albanian Kosovars, Sopi remained in Kosovo along with the vast majority of his 36 priests and 70 nuns. He said Catholics were not subject to discrimination for their faith.

Muslim leaders, however, say 217 mosques in the region have been damaged. Serbian Orthodox clergy cite 80 churches and monasteries that have been desecrated. With plenty of priestly vocations, pledges from Western Catholic organizations to construct a first-ever Catholic kindergarten and primary school, and warm relations with politically ascendant Kosovar Muslims, the Catholic Church here is poised to grow at a rate not seen since the late 19th century, when Ottoman rulers permitted a flurry of church building.

Aside from the demographic dynamic created by departing Serbs and highly fertile Kosovar Catholics, some longtime parishioners say the Catholic Church will grow simply because it has a better image. "Catholicism is more civilized, and the people of Kosovo have seen that," said Pal Kukeli, 55, a Catholic farmer taking a cigarette break from an ordination Mass on a recent Saturday in Kosovo's capital, Pristina. "We are turning toward Europe. The Catholic Church will grow without a doubt."

Bahtir Hamza, another Catholic taking a break during the 2 1/2-hour ordination service attended by dozens of clergy and three Catholic hierarchs from the Balkans, said he was a rarity in Kosovo: a Muslim who converted to Catholicism.

Since converting, Hamza, a 44-year-old writer, said he has encountered opposition from neighbors in his Muslim village to the idea of converting his home into a Roman Catholic Church. "I believe that every Albanian is a Catholic," said Hamza, a lively man sporting a white goatee. "The people who are Muslims were forced to be that way by the Turks. This is the disaster that befell the Albanian people."

Despite the neighbors' hostility, Hamza vowed, "I will make my house a church so we can destroy the primitivism of Islam." Such views do not appear to be widely held.

Bishop Sopi takes pains to emphasize his post-war work on Kosovo's Interreligious Council with Kosovo's Grand Mufti Rexhep Boja and Serbian Orthodox Bishop Artemije Radosavljevic.

According to Andreas Szolgyemy, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's religion adviser in Kosovo, Catholics and Muslims have long enjoyed close relations in the region. He related his experience attending two religious holidays last winter in Pristina, Kosovo's capital. "At midnight Mass Christmas, in the Catholic church, I would say that half the 2,000 or 3,000 people were Muslims," said Szolgyemy, adding that several weeks later, he went to a Muslim event attended by about 100,000 people marking the end of Ramadan. "I was told that 500 or 600 of the people there were Catholics."

146 posted on 06/03/2004 11:57:05 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
... I would think it would take the Vatican to make the decision to split a diocese.

Isn't it common for the Vatican to create diocese according to geographical designations? Kosovo and Albania are separate diocese because they are in different nations: one in Albania, the other in Serbia.

It would be disturbing to discover that they had created a diocese serving Kosovo alone as that might suggest they were trying to influence the politics of that region...yet again.

147 posted on 06/03/2004 11:59:44 AM PDT by FormerLib (It's the 99% of Mohammedans that make the other 1% look bad.)
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To: mark502inf; DTA

mark, the pro-Serbs here on FR have a far better understanding of the history and situation of the Balkans that you can possibly imagine. We do not see this as a battle of pure good and pure evil...except for the al Qaeda operatives, of course, they are pure evil.

Of course, mark, we harbor no such illusions about you being able to set aside the anti-Serb propaganda that you clearly hold so dear.


148 posted on 06/03/2004 12:05:39 PM PDT by FormerLib (It's the 99% of Mohammedans that make the other 1% look bad.)
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To: mark502inf; FormerLib
>>>> As the Serbian Volunteer Corps, they were under the control of the Nedic collaborationist government from 1941-1944 and were well known for their hard fighting against the Partisan resistance organizations. Since they were Nazi collaborators it was natural they would flee when the Red Army arrived. <<<<<

Yes, SFK were collaborationists during Nazi occupation, but that does not mean they were Waffen SS as you claim. They were not. And their number was insignifficant, several hundred strong.

Wehrmacht was not Waffen SS, although many Wehrmacht servicemen were Nazis. Croatian Domobrans were not Waffen SS and so on. By what logic SFK becomes Wafffen SS?

Only because construct "Serb Waffen SS" is sweet sound to your ears?

You deliberatelly mix apples with oranges again ( or in Balkan parlance, sell bull's testicles as kidneys :-) .

"Zbor" was organized on fascist ideology of Ljotic, not Nazi ideology of Adolph Hitler. If you forgot, the Serbs were UNTERMENSCH for Nazis, just they are today for Soros-finaced sleazebags.

You either do not know the difference between Nazism and Fascist ideology or you know but hope others.

During WWII, from the territory of Yugoslavia, only Croats, Bosnain Muslims, Albanians and ethnic Germans served in Waffen SS ( Waffen SS divisions Kama, Handzar, Skenderbeg and Prinz Eugen)

This is the unpleasant fact Croatian, Muslim and Albanian propagandists try to hide. Some go as far as to accuse Serbs for the Holocaust in order to exonerate Nazis from guilt. In that case, we speak of Nazi/Holocaust revisionism.

With your smearing of Serbs at all cost, you are heading in that direction.

149 posted on 06/03/2004 12:22:50 PM PDT by DTA (you ain't seen nothing yet)
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To: FormerLib; DTA
Former Lib & DTA, I think this comment from a 1914 report on the Balkans still holds true today:

Report of the International Commission to Inquire into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars

Published 1914 by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

p.7 …in the Balkans … it is impossible to avoid the reproach of a party, if one does not take sides with it against the others …

150 posted on 06/03/2004 12:33:21 PM PDT by mark502inf
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