Poll: Half of French feel no moral debt [for D-Day or their liberation]

MSNBC.com ^ | June 5, 2004 | Reuters

[Dr Snide]

I'm not sure the WWII vets we have there this weekend couldn't storm the beaches again and force France to surrender. Those guys are tougher than any frog in his prime.

[DustyMoment]

NEVER FORGET that in the months leading up to the start of the Iraq War, FRENCH grafitti "artists" desecrated American graveyards in FRANCE by writing "Come get your garbage, it's polluting our land" on the graves and memorials to American servicemen who died liberating FRANCE.

NEVER FORGET!!!!

[Dr Snide]

although something like 73% of English students couldn't identify who fought in WWII or was the leader of England during that time

[Dr Snide]

some where, I rember seeing the pictures but I think it was only in selected areas

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

I suspect more than 50% feel a debt of gratitude to the Germans.

Albert Speer, in "Inside the Third Reich", said that after the fall of France he and his French counterpart reached an agreement whereby no French would be conscripted into forced labor in Germany, in return for which the French would assist in supplying the German war effort. Speer talks about the warm collegiality of his relationship with French officials.

Steven Ambrose relates that Eisenhower, among others, felt that France should be punished after the War for collaboration. It was not to be. It would have been difficult politically to tell the mothers of thousands of dead Americans that their sons died to "liberate" a nation of ingrates. The myth of valiant "French Resistance" was sustained for reasons of internal Western politics. (Not that there was no French Resistance, just that the efforts were exaggerated and ballyhooed all out of proportion.)

[Batrachian]

I think it was British graves that where desecrated in the way that you describe, but it still tells you all you need to know about the french, doesn't it?

[ardara]

This is no surprise since most of the French were happy to surrender to Hitler.

[KriegerGeist]

"Next time, whomever invades France gets to keep the Frogs in the surrender treaty..."

That "next time" is already happening. It is slower and more gradual than the Nezis, but it is happening just the same and will completely take over the country with nobody to save them. It's called Islam.

[Chgogal]

It is time for my favorite French joke.

Three surgeons met at a bar after a hard days work.

After the buying the first round of good whiskey, the first surgeon states that his favorite patients are accountants. When you open them up all their organs are numbered. You just have to match up the numbers.

The second surgeon took a gulp of his whiskey and said that his favorite patients are engineers. You open them up and their organs are color-coded. Just match up the colors.

The third surgeon, who happened to be the oldest and wisest, shook his head and said that his favorite patients are the French. When you open them up they have no heart, no intestines, no testicles and their head and a$$ are interchangeable.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

[vanmorrison]

"Lafayette was indeed a great Frenchman, and no doubt that without that French blockade at Yorktown, we might still be British. But I think Americans remembered even after 200 years- Lafeyette we have returned- and the French don't even care within a generation. I think it is time that Americans realize that the French are NOT our allies, and we should start acting so."

I'm sorry, but I think its important that we recognize our own selfish reasons that underlay our foreign policy and stop trying to rationalize everything we've done as if it was all under the banner of some sort of altruistic saintly and pure wonderfulness of the American people. This doesn't absolve the French, Germans, or anyone else from failing to be grateful and respectful of the sacrifices we've made on their behalf. The problem is that we've allowed these countries to skate on their own responsibilities for so long that they've lost any respect they may have had for the US position. This is a problem WE'VE created by not demanding and requiring reciprocity on the part of our erstwhile allies. It seems that no matter what these cowardly countries do or don't do the American establishment continues to bankroll and prop up these countries economically and militarily. Why on earth do we still have troops in Germany and Japan sixty years after the war, fer Crissakes? And in Korea almost fifty years after that war "ended". This kind of lunacy on OUR part is why this sort of anti-Americanism thrives and flourishes.

[Chgogal]

Yup, it's all America's fault! (sarcasim off)

[KevinDavis]

Don't forget about the Canadians....

[Delta 21]

bump

[kdot]

surrender treaty

That should be a standard template in MS Word.

[vanmorrison]

Grow up! I didn't say it was all America's fault. I said that the fact that we don't require these countries and their people to recognize our contributions and demand reciprocity on their part IS our own fault.

These countries behave like welfare recipients. If I knew that I didn't have to worry about my economic performance because no matter what I did I would be bailed out and covered by some unknown "other" then I wouldn't bother myself with questions of gratitude. And these countries ARE like welfare recipients of the worst sort; they're all heavily socialistic welfare states that border on communists. Why DO we continue to bankroll and prop them up ad infinitum? Ask yourself that question!

[Cultural Jihad]

Doing what God requires one to do is its own reward.

[Chgogal]

"Grow up! I didn't say it was all America's fault. I said that the fact that we don't require these countries and their people to recognize our contributions and demand reciprocity on their part IS our own fault."

If you know your history, France is behaving like France always has. France in particular and Europe in general has a history of poor leadership for centuries. She has a history of arrogance and ignorance that has caused millions upon millions of deaths over countless decades. Presently very few Europeans study American history, American literature, etc. I believe I read somewhere, that there are fewer than 20 French professors studying American history or culture. That explains why the EU constitution is more than 9,000 pages long.

By allowing the excuse that "we don't require these countries and their people to recognize our contributions and demand reciprocity on their part IS our own fault" is giving, once again, Europe an out.

The US will do what is necessary for its survival. If Europe makes the wrong choice, like it has done many a time over the centuries, it will have to live with the consequences.

Lastly, those who tell other people to grow up, usually have a lot of growing up to do themselves. Your immature comeback indicates to me you are either insecure or you are a blowhard!

[flyinghorse]

There too busy showing films like "Born On The Fourth Of July" starring Tom Cruise who plays a Viet Nam vet returned home who begins protesting the war (just like John Kerry).