Poll: Half of French feel no moral debt [for D-Day or their liberation]

MSNBC.com ^ | June 5, 2004 | Reuters

[quadrant]

If my memory is not faulty, I read once that an Austrian statesman said that Austria would astound the world by its ingratitude.
Can anyone when contemplating the actions of the French government over the years be astounded by the ingratitude of the French?

[lawgirl]

we paid them back in WW1. Remember your US history from grade school? General John J Pershing when stepping off the boat in France said, "Layfette we are here"

THAT is who said it- in my previous post I wanted to post who said it but I couldn't remember or find it googling. over 100 years later we still remembered.

[Ciexyz]

I used to buy French makeup (Lancome) before the boycott started last year. I discovered an American made product that is better and cheaper. So there, Frenchies!

[Ciexyz]

53% of American high school kids couldn't find England, France and Germany on a map.

[not2worry]

You said it all. Civil War will soon be developing in France come September.

[DustyMoment]

Perhaps your memory is a little faulty. It was definitely American graves.

[Batrachian]

Nothing wrong with my memory. It was definitely British and commonwealth graves. Who do you think "Roast beefs" are? But even so, the issue is what happened, not who's graves they where. I only pointed it out because our statements and positions are stronger for being accurate.

[dead]

They don't owe us dick, nor we them.

Let them die of the heat, until their muslims rise up and slaughter their pathetic snail-eating asses.

The world won't long mourn their crappy cinema nor their anti-freeze loaded wine.

[freedumb2003]

Next time, whomever invades France gets HAS to keep the Frogs in the surrender treaty...

[Focault's Pendulum]

48 percent of respondents thought France, which was liberated by U.S. and other Allied forces during World War Two, had a moral debt to the United States. Fifty percent thought it did not.

The other 2 percent are still trying to decypher little white bars that say "soap" on the wrapper.

[Redleg Duke]

If I wasn't married, I'd propose to you, Lady!

[vanmorrison]

"By allowing the excuse that "we don't require these countries and their people to recognize our contributions and demand reciprocity on their part IS our own fault" is giving, once again, Europe an out."

I don't agree. I'm advocating pulling the plug on the free ride that the Europeans have had, at our expense, for the past fifty years. How is that "giving the Europeans an out"?

"The US will do what is necessary for its survival. If Europe makes the wrong choice, like it has done many a time over the centuries, it will have to live with the consequences."

You're right on the first point, but wrong on the second.

First, we both agree that US actions are motivated by selfish reasons, and rightly so! But I say we need to stop deluding ourselves that we're doing this for altruistic purposes. Otherwise, we will continue down this confused and dangerous road that we've taken since WWII of being the "policeman of the world" and being continually disappointed by the ungratefulness and treachery of the unworthy recipients of our soldiers blood and our peoples' treasure.

Second, I know French history quite well. And German history, and Spanish, and Italian, etc. But I also know American history. And it seems to me that WE have a very poor record of NOT "letting the Europeans live with the consequences" of their duplicity, stupidity, and arrogance. We've been bailing out and propping up these ungrateful wretches for the past hundred years, and I think its damn well past time to stop this lunacy on OUR part.

What's wrong with that?

[MeanFreePath]

If you drive around in Normandy, there is statue or plaque in every town and half the fields commemorating the actions of some British, Canadian, or American unit during the invasion. Sure, the role of the Free French forces are a bit overemphasized, but signs of appreciation for the allies are everywhere.

I'm no Francophile, but having 48% acknowledge a "moral debt" is not too bad. As pointed out elsewhere on the thread, most of our own highschool seniors couldn't find France on a map.

The term "moral debt" is a strong one. It could be taken by respondents to imply that France should subordinate her own interests to ours because of what she "owes" us. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that 48% said yes to such a question. The French have not completely forgotten (yet).

[oldironsides]

Modern France is 20+% Muslim. They are doomed

[VOA]

Poll: Half of French feel no moral debt [for D-Day or their liberation]

Thank goodness for the clarity.
Now I'll never feel a trace of compunction about speaking the truth about
the French.

[Chgogal]

Hi! You are back. It is nice hearing from you.

"I don't agree. I'm advocating pulling the plug on the free ride that the Europeans have had, at our expense, for the past fifty years. How is that "giving the Europeans an out"?"

You may educate me on this point. I am not aware of any “free ride” that the Europeans are enjoying other then “defense”. I think that is what you are talking about??? And on that point I would agree with you to a certain point. Prior to both WWI and WWII, the US allowed the "European Powers" and Japan to do their will. Was there no cost to that? Since May and August 1945, the US and the free world have enjoyed a peace and a prosperity not witnessed or experienced at any time in history. I believe and I may be wrong, the US benefited much from the dreadful, tragic and immense costs of both wars. You may differ on that point of view. I don’t mind listening.

"You're right on the first point, but wrong on the second.

First, we both agree that US actions are motivated by selfish reasons, and rightly so! But I say we need to stop deluding ourselves that we're doing this for altruistic purposes. Otherwise, we will continue down this confused and dangerous road that we've taken since WWII of being the "policeman of the world" and being continually disappointed by the ungratefulness and treachery of the unworthy recipients of our soldiers blood and our peoples' treasure."

I cannot find in my post any reference to “altruistic purposes”, so I am not on the same page you are. You will need to explain further.

"Second, I know French history quite well. And German history, and Spanish, and Italian, etc. But I also know American history. And it seems to me that WE have a very poor record of NOT "letting the Europeans live with the consequences" of their duplicity, stupidity, and arrogance. We've been bailing out and propping up these ungrateful wretches for the past hundred years, and I think its damn well past time to stop this lunacy on OUR part."

I think I may learn much from your present and future posts. I thank you in advance for that, sincerely.

"What's wrong with that?"

There is nothing wrong with that. I believe Germany may experience a “consequence” from their action with the pulling out of almost all our military bases. But again are we doing that for mere revenge or are we doing it because it makes military sense? All I am saying is that I refuse to blame ourselves for the boorish, selfish, corrupt behavior of the European Powers (i.e. France, Germany and Russian in particular). When the US “bails” out on Europe it will because we have no use for them. In other words, I don’t believe we, the US, were altruistic. We wanted the benefits of peace and we didn’t think that the European idiots could accomplish that, IMHO.

[COEXERJ145]

Next time, whomever invades France gets to keep the Frogs in the surrender treaty...

In the next European war we have to fight, France will be one of the enemies.

[lawgirl]

LOL! Well thanks!

[dougherty]

I'm amazed half thought they do owe a moral debt to the US. If you go by what is shown in the media, 100 percent of the French hate us.

[river rat]

"God to womankind: "Here's Cary Grant. Now don't tell me I never gave you anything."

Actually, he may have given women only 50% of Cary Grant..
Cary Grant was thought to be bisexual --- at least.

http://www.glbtq.com/arts/grant_c.html

Semper Fi