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Space Vision Misunderestimated
Tech Central Station ^ | June 15, 2004 | Charles Rousseaux

Posted on 06/15/2004 2:59:12 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

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1 posted on 06/15/2004 2:59:13 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; mylife; Fedora; KevinDavis; Atlantic Friend; qam1; tame; swarthyguy; ...

misunderestimation ping


2 posted on 06/15/2004 3:43:14 AM PDT by risk
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To: risk

Rather quiet, isn't it?


3 posted on 06/15/2004 6:39:25 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
One thing is sure: We are going to spend the money whether we accomplish anything or not. The real challenge will be overcoming business as usual. The very bureaucrats and contractors who are cashing the checks are precisely the ones who will be the biggest obstacles.

I have talked to them, and they like the way things are. The contractors will have to innovate, and they won't do that without a gun to their heads.

The bureaucrats will actually have to commit to a goal where their is a discernible difference between failure and success and they won't do that without a gun to their heads. Heck, pre-Columbia all they had to do to be considered successful was avoid disaster and they couldn't even do that.

4 posted on 06/15/2004 6:47:36 AM PDT by hopespringseternal (People should be banned for sophistry.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
>Space travel is also about the soul, about the aspiration of the human sprit

That stuff sounds good, but
would anyone really say
NASA -- defined by

bureaucracies and
old boy networks, along with
weird academic

hierarchies -- stands
as a manifestation
of the human soul?

5 posted on 06/15/2004 7:10:46 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: risk

Thanks for the ping!


6 posted on 06/15/2004 8:10:03 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: theFIRMbss

NASA's mantra under Clinton's appointee was "too male, too pale, and too stale."

A lot of the Apollo-era engineers, who had since entered senior management, were driven out during those years.


7 posted on 06/15/2004 8:11:39 AM PDT by GOP Jedi
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

"It's been a long road, gettin' from there to here..."


8 posted on 06/15/2004 8:31:14 AM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: hopespringseternal

America deserves better and this vision for space exploration is the better. The entire report comes out tomorrow.


9 posted on 06/15/2004 8:59:05 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: TigerTale
"It's been a long road, gettin' from there to here..."

But we're finally here.

10 posted on 06/15/2004 9:00:02 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Cold-War competition can no longer serve as a catalyst for exploration.

If China shows any sign of really going to the moon, that catalyst will be back.

11 posted on 06/15/2004 9:05:18 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: theFIRMbss
If you have ever had experience with NASA people, you know that they believe very strongly in human endeavor, and reaching out, and all of those "human soul" sorts of things.

What's missing inside NASA (and lots of other organizations) is that undefineable combination of leadership and competence that characterized Apollo.

But the bigger issue has nothing to do with NASA: no amount of leadership or enthusiasm will make up for the inability for the general population to dream. Nor can it make up for the levels of unchecked cynicism so common to those in positions of influence (and they have a vested interest in keeping people from dreaming).

Kennedy said we should go into space because it's easy, but because it's hard. But he was wrong -- we should go into space because it's intrinsically worth doing. The problem is: how do you make that case? How do you vault past the cynics to get to the dreamers, and how do you avoid disappointing them through failure?

I usually come on to these threads challenging the "privatize space" folks to present a business case for their cause. I personally think "privitization" is bound to fail except in cases where government R&D has already been done, and feasibility has been demonstrated. That's why a revitalized NASA is necessary. Space does offer tremendous potential, but it likewise requires the expenditure of tremendous resources -- amounts only a government can amass -- to make it work.

I hope W's team comes out with a realistic timeline, and I hope that they start it rolling during his next administration.

12 posted on 06/15/2004 9:34:28 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Bush's campaign promised that the Admin would look into the idea of private property in outer space. If they have done so in the four intervening years, they have been silent on their thoughts.

The issue is private property.

The gov't has already asserted sovereignty of outer space, so they could set up a mechanism for registering private property claims with no further action besides telling the clerk at the BLM which form to use.

13 posted on 06/15/2004 9:37:39 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: dead

"If China shows any sign of really going to the moon, that catalyst will be back."

Thats it! The chicom militarization of space will light a fire under NASA's butt.


14 posted on 06/15/2004 9:40:18 AM PDT by Rebelbase ( aka Gassybrowneyedbum)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

By that I mean that the Federal space program is too timid and shortsighted to be effective. Enough is known about outer space, and it is obvious the Feds are not going to set up a space transportation infrastructure. So it is time, past time by 30 years, for the gov't to start recognizing private claims to celestial resources. They can update their mining law at the same time, it's always near the top of the workpile on the Hill anyway.


15 posted on 06/15/2004 9:41:14 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: r9etb
I usually come on to these threads challenging the "privatize space" folks to present a business case for their cause.

The business case could be NASA itself. There's billions of aerospace spending to be had, but conventional wisdom leads contractors to provide as few launches/programs/vehicles as possible to get those billions. The problem is that those billions are very, very static.

Growth just isn't in the picture. Hence the whole thing is one stinking, stagnant swamp begging to be drained.

16 posted on 06/15/2004 9:44:29 AM PDT by hopespringseternal (People should be banned for sophistry.)
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To: risk

This is my favorite part:

"president's people piqued pundits and policymakers a by pronouncing.."

....probably, perhaps..


17 posted on 06/15/2004 9:49:45 AM PDT by PoorMuttly (""Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready." - T. Roosevelt)
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To: r9etb
challenging the "privatize space" folks to present a business case for their cause.

You don't need to recognize asteroid mining as a valid business activity, someone else has already done that. But you need to recognize private property rights in outer space, and this has not been done.

18 posted on 06/15/2004 10:10:48 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Only GWB has had the guts to cancel the Space Shuttle, and the good sense to do it in a reasonable and discernable timeframe. The STS costs too much, and is destroying NASA. Ultimately, the so-called International Space Station is where most of the Shuttle money goes, so the ISS contributes to the destruction of NASA and to the US space program. And the ISS will be ditched in ten years or so, the same way Mir was.

In order to go to Mars, one first must go to the Moon, developing the skills and techniques (and technology) to do the harder job by doing the easier one. Mars was Von Braun's ultimate goal, and each step was carefully chosen to make the next step possible. First, orbiting something. Then, showing humans could survive spaceflight and what they needed to do it. Next, orbiting a human. Then, orbiting a crew. Spacewalk. Rendezvous. Free return lunar trajectory. Practice landing without touchdown, rendezvous, return. Landing.

The abandonment of Apollo was due to LBJ's huge Vietnam debacle, which was extricated by Nixon and Kissinger. The Apollo program was targeted for cuts in 1969. We wound up with the undersupported Skylab, the strictly political Apollo-Soyuz, the kludged-up STS...
George W. Bush will be reelected by a margin of at least ten per cent

19 posted on 06/15/2004 10:30:53 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: r9etb
I personally think "privitization" is bound to fail except in cases where government R&D has already been done,

Burt Rutan would probably disagree with you.

Please note that Scaled Composites, like the other X-Prize contestants, is doing it's own R&D. Precisely because they don't have the sums to throw around that governments do, they have to find a different way--smaller, faster cheaper.

And yes, I know the X-Prize is not an orbital shot. But I expect there will be an X2, and an X3. And at every stage, I imagine, there will be one or more Burt Rutans to take up the challenge.

20 posted on 06/15/2004 10:33:30 AM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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