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This is a pretty interesting dilemma. If I had this type of windfall I'd probably donate some to the Church, but if I received this sort of hostility I might change my mind (as it seems that these guys might).
1 posted on 06/19/2004 11:46:36 PM PDT by Michael2001
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To: Michael2001

The second it becomes involuntary, it's no longer a donation.


2 posted on 06/19/2004 11:52:40 PM PDT by stands2reason (Everyone's a self-made man -- but only the successful are willing to admit it.)
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To: Michael2001

3 posted on 06/19/2004 11:53:37 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Michael2001
I hope that they will rethink their situation and make a personal gesture to the Dublin community.

I can just imagine the personal gesture I'd make to the community, in this situation.
4 posted on 06/19/2004 11:55:00 PM PDT by cryptical
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To: Michael2001
Rick O'Connor and Roy Gandhi-Schwatlo, of Dublin, and Dawn Ward, of Rindge, purchased the painting at an August 2003 auction to benefit the Dublin Community Church.

O'Connor was on the committee that organized the auction and was responsible for acquiring paintings for the auction.

There is a conflict of interest here. The guy is in charge of acquiring donated paintings for the church.

Here's my scenario:

1) Hale unknowingly donates expensive painting to church

2) O'Conner realizes that he may have an expensive painting on his hands. His duty is to get the best price for the church. This involves getting it appraised and informing all potential bidders of it's possible value. Instead, he tells no one except for his two friends. Sounds like fraud to me.

6 posted on 06/20/2004 12:07:11 AM PDT by opinionator
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To: Michael2001
It really matters what the details are here.

If the "organizers" asked for the original owner to bring in the painting for auction I'd be VERY suspicious.

Even if they didn't ask, if they knew (or suspected) the true value of the painting and didn't tell their "friend" that brought in for auction then they weren't much of a friend (or worse).

Total strangers is a different matter, but not all that different.

If, and that's a big if, they didn't have any idea of the true value of the painting and they risked their $3,200 in purchasing it to help the church. Then they don't owe anyone anything.

At least that's my opinion...
7 posted on 06/20/2004 12:12:37 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: Michael2001
O'Connor was on the committee that organized the auction and was responsible for acquiring paintings for the auction. He said he never spoke with Hale about her painting, and no one in his group knew its real value before buying it.

Seems suspect to me.

10 posted on 06/20/2004 12:25:51 AM PDT by Ruth A.
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To: Michael2001

$3,200 is a pretty hefty price and I am sure the Church was happy when the sale went through. If they had bought it for $20.00, it would be a different story.


11 posted on 06/20/2004 12:27:45 AM PDT by BJungNan (Stop Spam - Start Charging for Email - You get 2000 a month for free, then you pay!)
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To: Michael2001

THIS IS A HUGE PEOPLE THING.
churches would be great places if it was not for people.
now let's get back to the foundational word in the greek for church.
COMMUNITY,a place for those of the same mind-set to gather.
the mind-set should not be money,but the teaching of christian values[ie;the gospel]


12 posted on 06/20/2004 12:30:12 AM PDT by alpha-8-25-02 (saved by GRACE and GRACE alone)
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To: Michael2001
"O'Connor was on the committee that organized the auction and was responsible for acquiring paintings for the auction. He said he never spoke with Hale about her painting, and no one in his group knew its real value before buying it.

'We were all friends and decided we would buy the painting,' he said Thursday. 'We just thought it would be a great investment.'"

Sheesh. What a weasel.

Hey, O'Connor: WWJD???

19 posted on 06/20/2004 12:53:11 AM PDT by formerDem (veritas)
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To: Michael2001

If I hadn't been on the committee and hadn't been in charge of getting paintings for the auction then I wouldn't donate one penny of my profit to the Church. If anything I'd find another Church and donate to them since they're not attempting to bully me into it.

But this guy's behavior smacks of fraud. I wouldn't have a clue that some ugly painting like that is worth anything. Investment? They *had* to believe it was worth more than the few thousand they were willing to spend. This "case" demands a proper investigation.


21 posted on 06/20/2004 1:08:40 AM PDT by newzjunkey (No more Floridas: Can "W" actually win this thing outright?)
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To: Michael2001

You know...this group made a donation to God and God blesses it by returning a blessing over 100 fold. They should just tithe it to get down to 320 thousand just to shut them up! Better yet...they owe them nothing!


22 posted on 06/20/2004 1:55:16 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (The Democrats must be defeated in 2004)
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To: Michael2001
Motives aside, in order to come up with a figure, this question needs to be answered:

A man makes $100,000 in a year.
He pays 30% tax.

What figure does he put down on his celestial form 1040 as his tithe, $10,000 or $7,000?
24 posted on 06/20/2004 2:50:22 AM PDT by Lokibob (All typos and spelling errors are mine and copyrighted!!!!)
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To: Michael2001
And does anybody believe that if the painting turned out to be worth only $200 that the church would come across with a refund?

It's usually "Buyer Beware" but the seller should know what they're doing and not complain about it later.The fact that it's a church is meaningless.

25 posted on 06/20/2004 3:34:30 AM PDT by muir_redwoods
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To: Michael2001
"Judge not, that you be not judged" Matthew 7:1

Boy, there sure are a lot of judges on this thread.

No none here knows the hearts of any of the parties to this event.

No one knows the true circumstances of this event, only what is reported by a reporter that very well may have gotten the facts wrong (naw, that don't ever happen does it?)

Yet, look at all the condemnation.

34 posted on 06/20/2004 5:52:51 AM PDT by FReepaholic (War On Terror: If not us, who? If not now, when?)
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To: Michael2001

The Lord loves a cheerful giver. It's not like He's short of cash.


37 posted on 06/20/2004 6:12:15 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: Michael2001

Nothing I buy at yard sales ever turns out to be the lost third of a 14th-century triptych painted by an unknown Sienese artist that sells for $489,600.

My wife usually just makes me put it in the storage shed.


40 posted on 06/20/2004 6:22:37 AM PDT by Skooz (My Biography: Psalm 40:1-3)
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To: Michael2001

O'Connor making this kind of profit doesn't pass the smell test. He was the both the seller's agent and the buyer. If as agent he sold a $489,000 painting to a third party for $3,200 not knowing what it was worth, I'd chalk it up as one of those things. If as a buyer not connected to the church auction he saw a steal, err bargain, and made a 15,000% return on his money, great for him. But he was both. An agent cannot screw his principal like that. If this church was a local government that sold something worth $489,000 for $3,200 to the government employee in charge of the sale there would be an indictment.


41 posted on 06/20/2004 6:41:52 AM PDT by Pilsner
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To: Michael2001

Interesting they make it sound like an "evil church" story. The fact is, any charity, once hearing about a large windfall, will set their donation dogs upon it and try to get a piece of it - using some related history is always useful in a potential transaction. This is how private donating should work, rather than a government collecting our money and handing it out to anyone who asks.

If these "friends" don't want to donate anything, it's their right to refuse. They're not being forced to to anything; they were obviously going to keep all the dough, and they resent the fact that they're "expected" to make a sacrifice now. Whining to the press so they can feel better about not making a grateful donation to the church, I guess!


42 posted on 06/20/2004 7:02:31 AM PDT by AmericanChef
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To: Michael2001
"The whole thing's just unfortunately slimy," said Charles Pillsbury, who volunteered at the auction. "It's just too bad."

Socialists consider all wealth to be community property, except for _THEIR_ wealth.

45 posted on 06/20/2004 7:21:17 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help fund terrorism.)
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To: Michael2001

GOD mandates tithing 10% should go to some worthy cause to help the poor...48K would be a nice amount to the church as well as other people in need...


46 posted on 06/20/2004 8:50:33 AM PDT by missyme
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