Four US Marines killed in action in Iraq

"U.S. troops ambushed on patrol in Iraq, shot in heads"

A cruel headline written by a reporter who doesn't know what's at stake in this war, who pays for their freedom, the values of our military, or the motives of our enemy.

Military families need a far louder voice in our public square.

Thanks for the ping, Kat.

Joining you in prayer for our troops!

How many such acts of this enemy will it take before the their lies and cruel history are investigated, exposed and plastered across the front pages of the civilized world's free press, instead of the isolated acts of a few unrepresentative MPs, and attacks on our allies in the DoD?

911 wasn't enough to wake the press.

Saddam and Osama's agendas and histories should have been universally exposed and condemned by freedom-loving people by now - as is the inhumane history of Hitler and the Ku Klux Klan.

More comments, prayers for the loved ones of our fallen Marines: 4 American Service Members Killed in Iraq.

Allied news sources:

Fox News: Greg Palkot confirmed four US Marines from the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force found dead in their compound in Ramadi...days after a recent successful strike on a Zarqawi safe house in Ramadi.

Today, Gen. Kimmitt said that there were several high value terrorist targets in the safe house: "What we thought we hit - a known Zarqawi safe house - is in fact what we hit."

CPA briefing transcript:

GEN. KIMMITT: This morning we had servicemen operating in the vicinity of the city of Ramadi. As you might expect, they report in to their higher headquarters at certain intervals. There was a time when they should have reported in, did not report in. We sent a Quick Reaction Force to their location. I think we've all seen those videos and those photos on APTN and some of the other news services. I can confirm that we do in fact have four servicemen die as part of that combat action, and we're going through the next-of-kin notification procedure at this time.

~*~

God bless our troops.

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com

Jihadis saying 4 Marines captured in same incident per:

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com

I hope they're wrong.

Sad Bump

Not sure.......point to ponder from the couch.

Stay safe !

Thank God for our heroes and their loved ones!

The person who took the film is not a Western journalist, it is one of the attackers themselves. They made the video, and delivered it to AP in Baghdad. AP then released it.

The motive in sending the video, is that they want this known.

And Reuters' motive is not only to make it known, but to promote their leftist agenda.

Disappointed in FOX News Channel. Just after 6 eastern, they ran the photo of our fallen Marines. It's a slippery slope, and I pray that those Marine families, almost all of whom watch FNC, didn't have to see.

Semper Fidelis Devil Dog Families!

"Strange these troops didn't even have time radio for help or state they were under attack. Sounds like an individual fire team vs a squad working alone. One would think other fire teams belonging to the squad in the area would have been close enough to hear the gunfire and support / respond ? Lot's of questions."

Dittos Squantos.

The first thing I noticed was the lack of weapons or personal armor in the near vicinity.

God Speed to our Marines!

Marine Taps ping.

God bless these Marines and the families who wait for news of their loved ones.

To ItsOurTimeNow and all others,

First of all, this post is coming in a little late on the scene but since coming across this tragic story again I decided to dig into it a bit more (I had first seen the images back in Aug '04). I realize that many will have moved on from this but think that some might find some interest (and perhaps some comfort) in this post. The post is more of a reply to the many posts that I have read here, not just the "blood and drag marks" post that I am replying to.

No drag marks but there is blood. The Marine in the forefront of the images was bleeding from the head or uppermost area of his body. This would be consistent with the report of head wound/s via gunfire.

The blood trails are the two dark lines running out from the left of his upper body (there is another image where you can just see the side of his face and it appears that there is also a trickle running down from the temple area) and towards the wall.

This is the only Marine where blood on the ground was evident to me. Using one of my high-end graphics programs I was able to select pixels that were primarily red in colour and these 2 dark patches instantly turned dark red. Once viewed it is very clear that these are indeed blood trails and that they originate from that Marine’s head area.

As for the comment about "drag marks": I can't see any no matter what I do to enhance these images (some have previously suggested that the Marines were moved there and "posed" after being killed). There would have been lots of activity in that immediate area - insurgents running in to overpower the Marines, the Marines setting up, the insurgents grabbing what they could and then fleeing. But I thought that the ground looked fairly undisturbed, all things considered, with the exception of it looking as though it may have rained some time earlier (large, slightly darker patches of ground all around the courtyard, and yes, it does rain in Iraq).

My first impression is that the Marine off in the top left corner was shot dead at the onset of the attack or instantly upon first being seen. He is lying with his back against a wall (might even be a doorway) and he's in a sort of slumped/sitting position with legs outstretched infront of him (as though he was shot and fell backwards into the doorway/corner). Unfortunately, the images that I have do not show this Marine clearly at all - really just his boots and vague idea of where his body is lying in the corner.

The other 3 Marines are each probably lying right where they were killed (although not necessarily exactly where the insurgents first encountered them).

Before the latter three Marines were killed, the insurgents probably ordered the dropping of all weapons and removal of flak jackets, if they had them. To contain the Marines and ensure they maintained physical control, the insurgents probably pinned them to the ground (knee-on-the-back gun-to-the-head style: in exactly the same way we see our own local cops doing when they perform a "high risk suspect takedown") while trying to get info/intel about their operation from them and/or while trying to decide what to do with them.

One camo shirt, which almost looks as though it was 1/2 folded, is lying on the back flap of an open backpack lying on the ground to the lower left of the Marine in the foremost foreground right near a helmet. This might indicate that one of the Marines not wearing his combat blouse in the images may have already taken it off (before they were attacked) and placed it near in his backpack right beside his helmet. I suspect that the next Marine's camo shirt is in among the things between the two backpacks that are visible against the wall (there is a helmet located here that is visible in only one picture).

Personally, I think the foremost Marine in the images is the owner of the camo blouse, open backpack that is laying flat and helmet that are so close to his body. The Marine lying in the same position just ahead of this first Marine is probably the owner of the first closed, upright backpack and helmet (the helmet is located on the ground between this first closed, upright backpack and a second opened, upright backpack right beside it). In the images, it seems that the second upright backpack is unzipped and open at the top while the first one (foremost) seems closed.

Do note that the Marine lying alone in the upper right area of the courtyard/rooftop still has his camo shirt on, there are no personal effects anywhere near him and he is wearing no combat gear such as a harness of utility belt. There is something on the ground infront of his face but I cannot make out what it is: torn clothing, some kind of torn combat gear...

I mentioned "if they had them" in regards to the flak jackets as I had read in a memorial to one of the Marines that he was a member of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force's "Sniper unit". I don't think that snipers wear flak jackets while sniping and if this were a sniper team that would explain alot: probably 2 were snipers and the other 2 were support (not sure how they set up these small sniper teams) but still a bad configuration (weaponry wise) when hit upon by a load of anywhere from atleast 4 to 10 or more insurgents armed with semi-automatic (AK47's) weapons. This could also explain the lack of flak jackets in the images even though there were 2 helmets left at the scene.

I don't think that the insurgents did much in the way of "body looting" after death as the bodies would have ended up on their backs or face-down (usually the former). If they took anything from their pockets they probably did it while they were holding them or before getting them to get on the ground. The positioning of the bodies of the two foremost Marines and the Marine off on his own in the upper right side of the image are very natural looking - I've seen many, many videos of executions/killings whereby the victim is in this "semi-self-protected" position (prone semi fetal: legs drawn upwards towards upper body and with arms bent and hands positioned close to upper chest area). I should note that in almost all of these videos this position is assumed prior to death as the person is being threatened or contained using force.

I doubt very much that the insurgents that killed these Marines would have felt that they had time to attack, overpower, contain, get what they could (intel and/or weapons), kill the Marines and then set up their bodies in such positioning (but somehow manage to leave no 'drag marks') before high tailing it out of there so as not to be caught by any nearby support forces - I'm sure that they would have had to consider their exit options and whether US support may indeed have already been on the way (likely not known to them it wasn't - support arrived about an hour after the Marines were attacked).

Once the Marines had been killed the insurgents likely did a quick rummage through their backpacks before grabbing their weapons and perhaps any flak jackets and fleeing.

I think that this incident was a very "pressed for time" engagement as the insurgents would have known that there were other US forces in the area (land and air) and they probably wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible. This is unlike the most recent insurgent ambush earlier this month of 6 US snipers where the region of the attack was more remote and the insurgents knew that the place wasn't afire with US forces around every corner. I've seen the video/photos of this latest attack and the insurgents looked as though they had all the time in the world and were not at all worried about the chances of being spotted.

Lastly, the positioning of the Marine's personal items left behind (3 backpacks, 2 helmets, combat shirt, 1 blue booklet, misc items in see-through plastic, etc.) seem to suggest that they had already set up shop for their operations and might have been there for a while before the insurgents found them, perhaps they were caught taking a break or having some grub. The second foremost Marine is missing the boot on his left foot (his white sock is visible). Looking carefully at the images I found that the boot is on the ground just ahead of him. Maybe this Marine was getting sand out of his boot when the insurgents hit?

To me, their stuff does not seem to be strewn all about as though looted but rather located in a place that would have made sense to put it all: against a wall where they could then sit and have everything at hand when able to take a break (note that the wall is shading the area where their belongings are located from the sun - very key). Some things might have become scattered around as the attack and any post-activity progressed.

While so sad to see young men die like this, it is going to happen if we are going to go to war. The other side is going to fight back and some of our own are going to pay the ultimate price eventually.

My interest in this particular incident was raised when I realized how few details the US military was making/had made available about the "attack/ambush" and that no one really seemed to know just what may have happened (alot of assumptions but nothing that seemed logical). Even more than a year later I can barely find any credible information about this incident on the internet (but can find anything and everything on all else) and many sites that did at one time contain info have since closed.

I don't want to sound like a sicko who likes to watch this stuff but if anyone knows where I can view the video of the aftermath of this incident I might be able to make a far better conclusion of what happened (images from the video are very choppy). I am also hoping that the video might give better footage of the Marine who is lying in the far, back corner - I can't see much of him at all in the images. I'd like to see if he has a backpack, helmet and/or flak jacket with or near him. Perhaps the video scans the surrounding area a bit more so that we can see if this indeed took place on a rooftop (as I have read in a few places - makes sense if this was a sniper team) or on the ground in a building site or courtyard.

At any rate, hope this helps some who may still be trying to understand what happened to these brave Marines on June 21, 2004 in Iraq.

With best intentions,
Acadian

I'm always fascinated when a brand new FReeper homes in on an old thread.

Welcome to FR, I think.

Hi and thanks for the welcome :)

I don't think the thread will revive itself but a good starting point for me. I've since seen the honed down version of video that the insurgents had taken of the aftermath and now I have a slightly different take on what all went down (no, i won't post another 14 chapter novel :).

Further research has brought to light the fact that three of these Marines were snipers within their unit and one was a rifleman (so that means they had 2 or 3 sniper rifles and perhaps one or two M16 series weapons or a M203 to fight off how ever many AK47 armed men ambushed them). Wish I knew why the heck they put such a small together and into position in such a dangerous area that must have been crawling with insurgents.

Personally, I don't mind the images and video being released as they don't show the faces of the Marines and they can't be identified in them (but how many photos of dead Iraqi soldiers, insurgents and civs alike, do we put out in the press every day...). And good thing that the video was taken otherwise we might not have any clue whatsoever as to just what happened to these 4 men and the military seems to want to keep everyone in the dark about the circumstances around this one. Just mentioning that as I had forgotten about all of the negative postings/comments about the posting on the web of the images and vid.

If anyone is still interested in this case that took place back on June 21, 2004 feel free to post and let me know.

Thanks again for the welcome, leadpenny :)
Acadian