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Will Justice Indict Berger?
Human Events ^ | Jul 23, 2004 | NA

Posted on 07/23/2004 7:03:54 PM PDT by GailA

Will Justice Indict Berger? Posted Jul 23, 2004

If a bank teller walked out of the vault with a few hundred dollars stuffed in his pants, took the money home, and kept it until the authorities came looking for it, would you believe him if he said it was an accident?

Of course not.

Would you be surprised if the authorities discovered the teller no longer had all the money he took--and that he claimed he "accidentally discarded" some of it?

Of course not. That is the sort of far-fetched story you would expect from a thief.

And that is also why Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger could soon face a day in court.

Berger, to be sure, is no bank teller. He was National Security Adviser to President Clinton throughout Clinton's second term. In that position, he was routinely entrusted with this nation's most highly classified national security information, and was expected to use it to devise policies for keeping the United States safe from foreign enemies. But, today, Berger is looking and acting exactly like a desperate thief caught in a desperate act.

(Excerpt) Read more at humaneventsonline.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: berger; dnc; doj; hanoijohn; pants; sandyberger; slickwillie; socks; theft; topsecret; trousergate; wot
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fyi
1 posted on 07/23/2004 7:03:56 PM PDT by GailA
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To: GailA
Nothing will come of this.

Nothing ever does when DEMO(N)cRATS are involved.

2 posted on 07/23/2004 7:06:23 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help fund terrorism.)
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To: GailA

If there are no indictments, then we may safely conclude that this justice department is failing to uphold the Constitution, just as Janet Reno's was corrupt.

I am hoping for better. There was a time when there was not a doubt in my mind that this administration would do the right thing.

But when I heard about Asa Hutchinson reprimanding border guards for doing their jobs and having them reassigned, because while it's the law, it's not "policy," it was very disturbing.

Hoping for indictments. We'll see. Maybe the "New Tone" will trump the rule of law, maybe not.


3 posted on 07/23/2004 7:13:10 PM PDT by SerpentDove (November 2004: Win One for the Gipper.)
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To: GailA
You saw today that "W"'s formerly lost military records were found.

All it took was finding the correct index number to see where they had been purposefully misplaced by someone exceedingly knowledgeable in the military personnel records system.

That would be our boy Sandy Berger ~ his MOS was as a PERSONNEL CLERK in the Reserves during the Nam.

No doubt once he'd given up the index number, the deal was made. He walks.

4 posted on 07/23/2004 7:13:14 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GailA
The Associated Press, which broke the story July 19, reports that Berger was assigned by former President Clinton to review Clinton Administration documents to determine which ones should be turned over to the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, the 9/11 Commission.

Why was a person with something to hide choosing which documents to show the commission?

Officials told AP that "National Archives employees told [FBI] agents they believed they saw Berger place documents in his clothing while reading sensitive Clinton Administration papers and that some documents were then noticed missing."

Why weren't they noticed missing before he ever left the building? I would think that checking documents out and then in before the researcher departs would be standard operation? So many unanswered questions.

5 posted on 07/23/2004 7:15:54 PM PDT by Freee-dame
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
IMHO nothing will come of this. No one has the intestinal fortitude to take on big name Democrats for their obvious crimes.

There is a very slight chance that all actions will be deferred until after the election and then a wrist slap will be given. Mr Berger will never see the inside of a jail.

6 posted on 07/23/2004 7:16:46 PM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (Sometime one has to recognize reality.)
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To: GailA

7 posted on 07/23/2004 7:21:32 PM PDT by End_Clintonism_Now (MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL CLINTON!)
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To: GailA
Will Justice Indict Berger?

Aye

8 posted on 07/23/2004 7:21:34 PM PDT by cyncooper ("We will fear no evil...And we will prevail")
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To: Freee-dame
Why was a person with something to hide choosing which documents to show the commission?

Maybe because some members of the 'commission' also had something to hide? Politics as usual in America.....

9 posted on 07/23/2004 7:22:50 PM PDT by eeriegeno
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To: muawiyah
No doubt once he'd given up the index number, the deal was made. He walks.

Oh PLEASE.

A deal over finding inconsequential records of GWB's service? No way. And you can take THAT to the bank.

Besides, Berger had access to Clinton administration records, not any records conceivably stored in the vast record-keeping vaults of the National Archives.

10 posted on 07/23/2004 7:27:43 PM PDT by cyncooper ("We will fear no evil...And we will prevail")
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To: GailA

10 to 1, no charges forth coming, such is reserved for GG Liddy and pubbies only. Murderers like Fat Teddy always walk free and are lauded as the pretty people.


11 posted on 07/23/2004 7:33:29 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: cyncooper
Sandy Berger had access to just about everything when he was National Security Advisor to Bill Clinton. With one of Billzo's girlfriends serving as Secretary of Air Force, he would have found an open door to do anything he wished with military records in the hands of that agency!

His problem more recently was he got caught trying to revise history, and his people no longer controlled the government. The man's been negotiating with the Administration since October for a plea bargain.

It's beyond belief "W"s people don't believe Berger has some "secrets" about "W" worth trading for, and Sandy does need his liberty. His fat bottom won't last a week in prison.

If Sandy walks it's because he gave up the index number. If he doesn't that will indicate the index number came from a uniformed Clintonista who didn't want to get caught up in prosecution for messing with records.

Since the pay records seem to be the ONLY records showing "W" had performed his required military duties from May 1992 to October 1993, they are hardly inconsequental. All of his other records had been destroyed in a very organized and systemic way.

12 posted on 07/23/2004 7:36:44 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
The man's been negotiating with the Administration since October for a plea bargain.

Wrong.

The FBI didn't even come on the scene until January. The Berger team has reportedly made overtures to Justice and been rebuffed.

Sorry, but your conspiracy theory betwixt Berger and the Bush administration is flat out baseless.

13 posted on 07/23/2004 7:40:04 PM PDT by cyncooper ("We will fear no evil...And we will prevail")
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To: GailA

Seems to me this is right up there on a par with Whitewater, so let's see it get Whitewater-type treatment, --- investigations, special prosecutor, jail, etc.


14 posted on 07/23/2004 7:40:28 PM PDT by holyscroller
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis

this situation is different though ... justice must prevail or else the whole national security of the US is put at risk by the message any inaction in these regards would convey & portend.


15 posted on 07/23/2004 7:41:28 PM PDT by Steven W.
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Nothing will come of this.

Nothing ever does when DEMO(N)cRATS are involved.

Think of the security violations of John Deutch and Wen Ho Lee and compare to the penalties paid by your average ensign, 2nd Lt., corporal or petty officer third class -- think brig, stockade, fine, reduction in rate and rank, less than honorable discharge, maybe Leavenworth, but not these rats.

I don't know how Clinton's former CIA Director Deutch got off, but Wen Ho Lee and his lawyers and support groups played the race card.

What card will Sandy Berger play?

My guess is if this case follows the Janet Reno Waco massacre trajectory, Berger will hold a press conference and admit responsibility but avoid mention of accountability and the media will swallow it, and Congress and the Attorney General John Ashcroft and everybody else will move on. Berger's best defense strategy might be to cop a plea now before the election. If things drag out until after November 2, Ashcroft's hand would be strengthened, and Berger could get hammered, like he should be hammered. Or, maybe not (:>).

16 posted on 07/23/2004 7:42:53 PM PDT by corsair
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Burger will stuff the ingictment down his socks.


17 posted on 07/23/2004 7:44:20 PM PDT by Darkwolf377
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Burger will stuff the indictment down his socks.


18 posted on 07/23/2004 7:44:31 PM PDT by Darkwolf377
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To: cyncooper
You're sure jumping up and down on my idea awful fast. So, a minor revision would be to have Sandy negotiating with the Administration since January for a plea bargain. The rest of the program is still quite workable.

You don't really think guys like Sandy Berger get the top jobs without coin of the realm. I think he did a campaign dirty trick on "W" which consisted of messing with his military records earlier (1997) to make it look like he'd failed to perform military duty.

Now, why would the Clintonistas do that back then? One reason might well have been his RE~ELECTION as Governor of Texas in 1997 made him a serious contender for nomination as the Republican candidate for President in the 2000 election.

Sandy has probably done other blackbag and dirty-trick jobs for the Clintonistas. Could be he hadn't yet told Kerry what his job really was, but then again, maybe he did?

19 posted on 07/23/2004 7:48:08 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GailA

If Berger is allowed to walk away from this then
why should Jonathan Pollard, Hansen, Aldritch Aimes(sp?),
and a host of other traitors remain in prison?


20 posted on 07/23/2004 7:50:56 PM PDT by StormEye
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To: GailA

Nothing will come of this. I doubt that Berger will do a day in jail.


21 posted on 07/23/2004 7:52:12 PM PDT by thathamiltonwoman
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To: GailA

This is hypothetical and farfetched, but a drunken RAT could drive an Oldmobile off a bridge and leave the scene while his passenger, say, a young woman aide drowned and nothing would come of it!


22 posted on 07/23/2004 7:53:03 PM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: muawiyah

And your evidence for all this wild conjecture? Oh, I see, a goose egg!


23 posted on 07/23/2004 7:54:20 PM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: muawiyah
No doubt once he'd given up the index number, the deal was made. He walks.

Berger did all this 30 + years ago because he knew then that W would run for POTUS? What a stretch!

24 posted on 07/23/2004 7:55:08 PM PDT by lonestar (Me, too!--Weinie)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Nothing will come of this.

Although history is on your side I don't think you are right in this case.

The reason is that a failure to indict Berger after he has admitted to removing "code word" classified material from a Government SCIF would cause immeasurable damage to our classified document control system.

Hundreds of thousands of people working in Government and the U.S. aerospace industry have signed their lives away promising to accept punishment for exactly the crime that Sandy Berger has admitted to. You simply cannot ask the Security Officers charged with the protection of our classified material to explain to these people that there really are two sets of rules - those for you and I and those for Sandy Berger and his like. The damage to the morale of these people would not be repairable in a lifetime. And worse, the current high standards that we have established for the handling of classified material would deteriorate with unknown but certainly bad consequences for the security of the United States of America. No thanks.

Here is a challenge for anyone who is currently cleared for access to classified information: Ask your Security Officer what he or she thinks should happen to Sandy Berger. Be prepared to stand back a few steps for your own protection. In any case, they will confirm what I am telling you.

25 posted on 07/23/2004 7:57:35 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: Revolting cat!
It's hardly wild conjecture. We have a guy who was caught red-handed doing a black-bag job on records maintained by a system in which he is an expert.

Why should any of us believe this was the first time he'd ever done this?

At the same time there's the evidence of "W"'s lost, destroyed and misplaced military records. You can believe it was all accidental, although there's no evidence for that, or you can investigate the situation to see if someone with great knowledge of military personnel records commited sabotage on a major Republican on behalf of Democrat politicians at large.

Interesting that news of Sandy Berger's perfidy with Archive records came the same week that news of "W"'s recovered Air Force records was announced.

I think it is exceedingly improbable that these two events are unrelated.

26 posted on 07/23/2004 8:00:48 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: lonestar
Why would Berger play around with "W"'s records 30 years ago when he had such a good opportunity to do so in 1997?

That's when Air Force was telling "W" that his records had been destroyed.

Please pay attention.

27 posted on 07/23/2004 8:02:05 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: corsair
"...John Ashcroft and everybody else will move on."

And, to his voter base, Bush will look like he doesn't care about national security. Most conservatives are already furious that he continues to leave our southern border totally vulnerable. If he permits Berger to get away with stealing highly classified and sensitive national security documents from the NARA, he will look bad with voters like me.

Remember what did his father in? He told us how seriously he took the tax issue. Then he turned around and crossed us. If Bush does the same on these national security issues, it will only prove that he hasn't learned the lesson.

28 posted on 07/23/2004 8:04:50 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: InterceptPoint

here is a look at what people go throught ot be eligible to view classified docs...and crimes & penalties..

http://www.archives.gov/isoo/security_forms/standard_form_312.html


29 posted on 07/23/2004 8:05:27 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: muawiyah
On second thought, I think you might have something there. But will we ever know? Will we ever know what explosive evidence Berger took the all too obvious risks to destroy?

Even the possibility of that is now being covered up. The possibility that he destroyed some evidence that would have made the just released 9/11 Commission Report a complete joke. Can't allow that thought. But I digress...

30 posted on 07/23/2004 8:05:46 PM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: Steven W.

"this situation is different though ... justice must prevail or else the whole national security of the US is put at risk by the message any inaction in these regards would convey & portend".

Steven in a sage, and you naysayers would do well to head his wisdom.

bergeroid will burn!

LLS


31 posted on 07/23/2004 8:07:32 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer ("Yeah, what CHENEY said"!)
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To: LibLieSlayer

head=heed sorry...what a mistake! :-)


32 posted on 07/23/2004 8:09:40 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer ("Yeah, what CHENEY said"!)
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To: Revolting cat!
Here's how we will know. Witnesses to Sandy's presence at an Air Force records center circa 1997 will step foward.

I suspect that's already happened, and someone Sandy roped into helping him has already betrayed him. They'll get an early retirement, of course, but "W" no longer has any incentive to cut Sandy any slack.

He'll have charges brought against him pretty soon ~ probably during Kerry's acceptance speech.

After that NAACP advertisement 4 years ago there's no more Mr. Nice Guy in these campaigns.

33 posted on 07/23/2004 8:10:49 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: rolling_stone
Don't remind me.

Here is an important paragraph from your link that affects anyone who has had every had access to classified information:

Question 18: Why do the obligations to protect classified information under the SF 312 extend beyond the duration of an employee's clearance?

Answer: The terms of the SF 312 specifically state that all obligations imposed on the signer "apply during the time [the signer is] granted access to classified information, and at all times thereafter." This provision recognizes that the duration of the national security sensitivity of classified information rarely has any relationship to the duration of any particular individual's clearance. The injury to the United States that may result from an unauthorized disclosure is not dependent on the current status of the discloser.

When you get married to this system it is forever.

34 posted on 07/23/2004 8:16:59 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: muawiyah
My opinion - nothing comes of the Berger Scandal - The media orders have already went out - This story will not be allowed to get legs -

I'm sure those in the FBI and on the Prosecutor side have already been made aware (by some in the media) they will be the next "Ken Starr" if they look to pursue this any further -

This story is already off every major news networks main sites - (outside of Fox...perhaps)

35 posted on 07/23/2004 8:19:31 PM PDT by POA2
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To: InterceptPoint
And worse, the current high standards that we have established for the handling of classified material would deteriorate

If Berger left with documents that the monitors did not realize were missing until later, how is this "high standards?" ....possibly high standards about what should happen with the documents, but lousy procedures to see that the correct things actually happen.

36 posted on 07/23/2004 8:23:27 PM PDT by Freee-dame
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To: Revolting cat!

A democrat could have a 17-year old boy running a prostitution ring out of his apartment and nothing would come of it.


37 posted on 07/23/2004 8:23:36 PM PDT by Antoninus (Federal Marriage Amendment, NOW!)
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To: GailA

Besides Berger being indicted, I want to see some action taken against the archive employees who reportedly letft him alone so he could pilfer these documents. There was a story yesterday about how archive employees left the room several times when Berger said he wanted to make personal calls on his cell phone. If that is true, and this actually occurred, they violated the rules of the archives and contributed to a breach of national security. They should at least lose their jobs, and/or brought up on charges like Berger.


38 posted on 07/23/2004 8:26:45 PM PDT by mass55th (We are The Knights Who Say "Ni!" No! Not The Knights Who Say "Ni!" The same!)
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To: GailA
The question to ask all you optimists predicting that Pantload will be arrested any minute now is why wasn't he arrrested any minute then?! When you're caught shoplifting is the matter investigated for 10+ months before the arrest and indictment. Sure, this ain't as serious an offense as shoplifing, it involves nothing more than national security, but still, time kinda flies, don't it?

Me thinks that in the end, if the indictments don't come or a slap on ther limp wrist is the only consequence, this disclosure will hurt Bush more than Pantload, despite all the diversionary screams this week from the RATS and their media sycophants.

39 posted on 07/23/2004 8:28:49 PM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: GailA
"Will Justice Indict Berger?"

Will Justice Indict hazel o'leary...

Will Justice Indict janet reno...

Will Justice Indict hillary klinton...

shirley you jest...

40 posted on 07/23/2004 8:32:18 PM PDT by hoot2
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To: Freee-dame
If Berger left with documents that the monitors did not realize were missing until later, how is this "high standards?" ....

Well you got me there. It was sloppy on the Reading Room staff side of things. Intimidation by Berger is the only explanation and that is not an acceptable excuse.

My reference to "high standards" is based on my own experience handling classified material and observing over many years the care and attention that your Average Joe Aerospace Worker gives to "doing it right" when it comes to the handling of classified information. In a classified environment, the handling of classified documents was and I believe remains the real "Job One". The Security Officers that I knew were hard working and dedicated to the protection of U.S. Government secrets.

I will stand by my position. If Berger walks the damage to this system will exceed the greatest expectations of our enemies, both domestic and foreign.

41 posted on 07/23/2004 8:34:01 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: POA2
This story is already off every major news networks main sites

Which means nothing since it was being investigated silently for months before Berger leaked the story. All the Berger cards, along with Wilson, are not in the Dems or media hands. The only trick Berger could apparently come up with is leaking the story. All he got out of that was a good laugh out of his old boss, some tired has beens attesting to his fine character and steely silence from the current government.

42 posted on 07/23/2004 8:34:03 PM PDT by Dolphy
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To: Dolphy
Ya..you really have to cross the line to get nailed..something like skimming coin which should go to the gov...having to fat an account in offshore banks....then you buy the farm,

Join Noreiga in a Florida Prison : )

43 posted on 07/23/2004 8:37:52 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: GailA

Justice would indict me or you, but not Burger.


44 posted on 07/23/2004 8:41:35 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get)
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To: Dolphy
The only trick Berger could apparently come up with is leaking the story.

I agree with you that Berger leaked the story - but he did it for a reason - to help off-set any possible down the road indictment - This case instantly became 100 times harder for any prosecutor to bring charges now -

Because the media have played their hand - which is they will call this a political witch hunt (we all have been told for 48 straight hours that Berger is an amazing, wonderful man and every person in this Country should be on their knees thanking him for all the good he has done) -

The media have fired a warning shot to any would-be prosecutor - "you will be made the next Ken Starr if you take this further" - (no way this happens considering we only have 90 days until an election - nope, media won't allow it) (IMO).

45 posted on 07/23/2004 8:42:31 PM PDT by POA2
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To: GailA

So how many think that ham Berger's buns are toast?


46 posted on 07/23/2004 8:52:57 PM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: InterceptPoint

A lot of attention is going to taking stuff. A lot of attention is going to stuff being "lost".

What did he do with the stuff after he took it? Did he ignore that he had it? If so, this is a separate case of incompetence or negligence. Plus, how did he lose stuff if he didn't know he had it?

If he didn't ignore it, then he knew he had it and didn't return it. Plus, he's lying when he says he gave it back as soon as he was asked.


47 posted on 07/23/2004 8:55:29 PM PDT by Tymesup
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To: GailA

Did they indict Bill Clinton? There's your answer. Some of us are above the law.


48 posted on 07/23/2004 8:55:52 PM PDT by ETERNAL WARMING (He is faithful!)
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To: GailA; MeekOneGOP; potlatch; devolve; Happy2BMe; PhilDragoo; OXENinFLA
"Will Justice Indict Berger?"

Aye
49 posted on 07/23/2004 8:57:09 PM PDT by Smartass ( BUSH & CHENEY IN 2004 - Si vis pacem, para bellum - Por el dedo de Dios se escribió.)
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To: ETERNAL WARMING
Some of us are above the law.

Is Berger King?

50 posted on 07/23/2004 8:58:54 PM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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