Kerry's confusion over Cambodia

Telegraph ^ | 08/13/04 | David Rennie in Washington

[Pikamax]

Kerry's confusion over Cambodia By David Rennie in Washington (Filed: 13/08/2004)

The biographer of John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate, said yesterday there was no basis for one of the senator's favourite Vietnam War anecdotes - that he spent Christmas 1968 in Cambodia, a neutral nation which US leaders vowed was off limits for American forces.

John Kerry catches a baseball at Long Beach Airport

"On Christmas Eve he was near Cambodia; he was around 50 miles from the Cambodian border. There's no indictment of Kerry to be made, but he was mistaken about Christmas in Cambodia," said Douglas Brinkley, who has unique access to the candidate's wartime journals.

But Mr Brinkley rejected accusations that the senator had never been to Cambodia, insisting he was telling the truth about running undisclosed "black" missions there at the height of the war.

He said: "Kerry went into Cambodian waters three or four times in January and February 1969 on clandestine missions. He had a run dropping off US Navy Seals, Green Berets and CIA guys." The missions were not armed attacks on Cambodia, said Mr Brinkley, who did not include the clandestine missions in his wartime biography of Mr Kerry, Tour of Duty.

"He was a ferry master, a drop-off guy, but it was dangerous as hell. Kerry carries a hat he was given by one CIA operative. In a part of his journals which I didn't use he writes about discussions with CIA guys he was dropping off."

A group of anti-Kerry Vietnam veterans have accused him of lying when he said he was in Cambodia. The group, "Swiftboat Veterans for Truth", is officially independent, but has received much of its financial backing from a wealthy Texan Republican.

Group members have contributed to an anti-Kerry book published this week, Unfit for Command, which states: "All the living commanders in Kerry's chain of command . . . indicate that Kerry would have been seriously disciplined or court-martialled had he gone" to Cambodia.

[NotQuiteCricket]

"...insisting he was telling the truth about running undisclosed "black" missions there at the height of the war."

WOW! That's incredible!

You know, I heard that John Forbes Kerry was in Vietnam...did you hear about that?

[bronxboy]

I thought the incident was SEARED in his memory. Just what this country needs another president that depends on the meaning of "is" is.

[Piquaboy]

I still have seen no proof brought forth about any of Kerry's activities in Vietnam. Could it be that most of it is not true? Also how many soldiers ran around in dangerous territory making home movies. Also,in these movies, what is a guy who is suppose to be on a swift boat doing running around on dry land trying to act like Rambo? He is a phony in all regards.

[OpusatFR]

""All the living commanders in Kerry's chain of command . . . indicate that Kerry would have been seriously disciplined or court-martialled had he gone" to Cambodia."

I have a question for all you military vets. Kerry was a Lieutenant at this time. According to my husband who is also a vet, Kerry's orders to go into Cambodia would have come from his CO. Is Kerry implying that he, as Lieutenant, was given secret orders directly from the President?

I just ordered Unfit for Command yesterday so I haven't read it yet.

[GarySpFc]

Let's see, Kerry clown was in Cambodia, and he only spent 3.5 months in Nam as the commander of a Swiftboat. That no other Swiftboats with more experienced skippers went into Cambodia doesn't matter. As one experienced Swiftboat commander has stated you could not get there, because the VC had the channel blocked by concrete pylons.

[hawkaw]

Wasn't this stuff "seared" into his memory?

I think if this is the new strategy then Kerry will have to provide some sort of record to prove that he was ordered into Cambodia. I don't think he could just say it anymore. Just saying it a proposed New Yorker article as suggested by Drudge would bring more attention to the issue and bring more negative spin to the subject for the Kerry campaign!

[Conspiracy Guy]

Kerry Lies

War Criminal or War Hero,
See both you cannot be.
You claimed you burned a village,
Sounds like a crime to me.
Cambodia in Sixty-Eight,
You say that you were there.
You said Nixon said you weren’t,
Just why would Nixon care?
He wasn’t even president,
Till Nineteen Sixty-Nine.
But details never bother you,
Bold lies do suit you fine.
Three Purple Hearts for paper cuts,
A Bronze and Silver Star.
Then home you came, threw them away,
But look now, there they are.
You testified with still more lies,
About brave fighting men.
The things you claimed that they did,
Just aren’t true now or then.
So tell us please John Kerry,
Which lie we should believe.
Oh what a tangled web you’ve weaved,
You practice to deceive.

Conspiracy Guy aka DIF 8/10/2004

[NotQuiteCricket]

Dude. Facts don't matter. Especially if you are a democrat candidate.

Stories matter...the cooler and more "dangerous" sounding the story the better.

I'm not sure what a journalist is today. I was educated (publik skewl) to think that a journalist is someone who reports facts, and if there is a difference of opinion they then report the factual statements from each side (of course in the same class the teacher also had us review the National Enquirer, and one other gossip rag).

Facts have been thrown away to favor what feeeeeels good, and ad hominem rules the day.

So regardless of any searing the national media doesn't seem interested in asking sKerry questions that would require an answer that is factual and verifiable. Nor will they pin him down.

~sKerry makes Gore look like a cheerleader on speed (so any military service sKerry had has to be sexy and exciting, making up for his monotone delivery and graveyard appearance).

[kellynla]

More "war stories" from Ketchup...this guy is having more illusions of grandeur..."black ops?", why he couldn't even blow up a rice cache without getting rice stuck up his arse!
ROFLMAO

He's got less credibility than a screen door on a submarine...
And the good people of MA elected and reelected this clown senator for twenty years???
Hellooooooooo?
Is anybody home in Massachusetts???

[MACVSOG68]

I have a question for all you military vets. Kerry was a Lieutenant at this time. According to my husband who is also a vet, Kerry's orders to go into Cambodia would have come from his CO. Is Kerry implying that he, as Lieutenant, was given secret orders directly from the President?

There is no evidence that any naval craft were used after the early 60s to infiltrate into either Cambodia or Laos. All cross border operations during the time Kerry was in Vietnam were under the authority of MACV SOG. In the case of where Kerry was operating, it would have been an organization known as Command and Control South (CCS) based out of Ban Me Thout. H-34 helicopters were the primary vehicle used for insertions. Occasionally Hueys would be used.

In answer to your question, the orders would have to have come through Kerry's chain of command, especially since the Army ran the cross border operations, and a request for support would have had to go from the CO CCS through MACVSOG to IV Corps and ultimately to the Navy commander in the area.

All cross border operations during that time required a top secret security clearance, and all insertion vehicles, weapons and soldiers had all identification removed. Weapons even had serial numbers removed. This was to ensure deniability.

[mountaineer]

I just can't remember where I spent Christmas that year. Was it Cambodia? No, that doesn't sound right. Davos? San Tropez? I know it was somewhere other than Boston, that's all I can say for sure.

[kellynla]

All cross border operations during that time required a top secret security clearance, and all insertion vehicles, weapons and soldiers had all identification removed. Weapons even had serial numbers removed. This was to ensure deniability.

Thank you! That's what my memory was. And from what our brown Navy veterans have said there was no way that Ketchup took his boat up the river to Cambodia because it was blocked by PBR's so it was impossible for Ketchup to have entered Cambodia...but let's not let the facts get in the way of Ketchup and his "war heroics!" They obviously haven't interfered up until now for the past thirty friggin' years!!!

[MACVSOG68]

but let's not let the facts get in the way of Ketchup and his "war heroics!" They obviously haven't interfered up until now for the past thirty friggin' years!!!

Got that right! Funny how for 8 years, anything associated with the Vietnam War was poison to the Democrats. Clinton was a hero for being a draft evader, and now Kerry is a hero for shooting a kid in the back. Go figure....

[kellynla]

Well I am just glad you are here to recall the history that many of us like myself have forgotten about Nam...
I can only hope that Americans who slapped every Viet Nam veteran in the face by electing and reelecting a draft dodger POTUS don't add insult to injury by electing a lying traitor POTUS!

Semper Fi,
Kelly

[RVN Airplane Driver]

Everybody remembers where they spent a "Christmas" in a combat zone. Kerry is a proven liar pure and simple. The boy should have stayed dreaming of "sugar plums dancing in his head" instead of manufacturing BS combat stories.

If he would have been in my unit we would have run the worthless POS off, just like the swifties did... Viva la Swifties

[COUNTrecount]

"He was a ferry master, a drop-off guy, but it was dangerous as hell. Kerry carries a hat he was given by one CIA operative. In a part of his journals which I didn't use he writes about discussions with CIA guys he was dropping off."

[Datom]

The problem they are having trying to cover for Kerry is that most of his defenders and the media were never in the military. THey don't know how it works. That's why people like us that have been in the military and Vietnam understands how the system works and have called Kerry on it. All they can do is blow smoke.

[guitfiddlist]

And the good people of MA elected and reelected this clown senator for twenty years??? Hellooooooooo? Is anybody home in Massachusetts???

Being back in Boston for a month-long business course, 20 years after attending school here - I can attest to the fact that Boston has lost it's mind. Boston prides itself on its intellectual elitism and cognitive superiority. However - they have completely forgotten - or never learned - the old computer-related adage of GIGO. Or, "Garbage In - Garbage Out."

No matter how well they think they cogitate, their brazen refusal to acknowledge facts - or unhelpful news about their "Anybody But Bush" candidate - makes them complete friggin' idiots.

[ProtectOurFreedom]

The last line of the editorial...And what are Americans to make of a presidential candidate whose life-altering moment was a figment of his imagination?

How about Bill Clinton remembering black churches burning when he was a boy...and it was a figment of his imagination? How about Hillary Clinton saying she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary...and it was a figment of her imagination?

How can it be that the Democrat leadership is so ethically and morally impaired that they feel compelled to lie to bolster their lives? This is very weird, to say the least. Especially when it is so easy to confirm or deny their claims.