If it was a suicide mission by Jdey, shouldn't they be able to place him on the passenger list (even if he used an alias, shouldn't someone no one can identify/place stand out)? Even, possibly, have some remains?
Posted on 08/27/2004 2:01:17 PM PDT by Cincinna
November 2001 plane crash (A A flight 587) Queens, NY was AL QAIDA operation
Stewart Bell National Post ( CANADA)
August 27, 2004
A captured al-Qaeda operative has told Canadian intelligence investigators that a Montreal man who trained in Afghanistan alongside the 9/11 hijackers was responsible for the crash of an American Airlines flight in New York three years ago.
Canadian Security Intelligence Service agents were told during five days of interviews with the source that Abderraouf Jdey, a Canadian citizen also known as Farouk the Tunisian, had downed the plane with explosives on Nov. 12, 2001.
The source claimed Jdey had used his Canadian passport to board Flight 587 and "conducted a suicide mission" with a small bomb similar to the one used by convicted shoe bomber Richard Reid, a "Top Secret" Canadian government report says.
But officials said it was unlikely Jdey was actually involved in the crash, which killed 265 people and is considered accidental. The fact that al-Qaeda attributed the crash to Jdey, however, suggests they were expecting him to attack a plane.
"We have seen no evidence of anything other than an accident here," said Ted Lopatkiewicz, spokesman for the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board. "There has been no evidence found, from what I can tell -- at least that's been relayed to us -- that there was any criminality involved here. It appears, at least the evidence we have, is that a vertical fin came off, not that there was any kind of event in the cabin."
Jdey, 39, came to Canada from Tunisia in 1991 and became a citizen in 1995. Shortly after getting his Canadian passport, he left for Afghanistan and trained with some of the Sept. 11 hijackers, according to the 9/11 commission in the United States.
He recorded a "martyrdom" video, but was dropped from the 9/11 mission after returning to Canada in the summer of 2001. The planner of the World Trade Center attack, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, claims Jdey was recruited for a "second wave" of suicide attacks.
The FBI issued an alert seeking Jdey's whereabouts in 2002. John Ashcroft, the U.S. Attorney-General, told a news conference in May that Jdey was one of seven al-Qaeda associates "sought in connection with the possible terrorist threats in the United States."
The information on Jdey's alleged role in the plane crash is contained in a memo on captured Canadian al-Qaeda operative Mohammed Mansour Jabarah. The Canadian government memo was written in May, 2002, and was based on information provided by a "source of unknown reliability."
Jabarah is a 22-year-old from St. Catharines who allegedly joined al-Qaeda and convinced Osama bin Laden to give him a terror assignment. He was tasked with overseeing a suicide-bombing operation in Southeast Asia, but was caught and has since pleaded guilty in the United States.
The report, which was sent to the Philippine National Police intelligence directorate, recounts what Jabarah said he was told about the U.S. plane crash by Abu Abdelrahman, a Saudi al-Qaeda member who was working for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
"In discussions, Abu Abdelrahman mentioned AL QAIDA was responsible for the assassination of Massoud, the Northern Alliance leader," the report says. "According to the source, Abu Abdelrahman added that the 12 November 2001 plane crash (btb American Airlines flight 587) in Queens, New York was not an accident as reported in the press but was actually an AL QAIDA operation.
"Abu Abdelrahman informed Jabarah that Farouk the Tunisian conducted a suicide mission on the aeroplane using a shoe bomb of the type used by Richard Reid .... 'Farouk the Tunisian' was identified from newspaper photographs as being identical to Abderraouf Jdey, a Canadian citizen who had resided in Montreal."
Jabarah was initially suspect of the claim about Jdey, but he later believed it after he saw the same information on a "mujahedin Web site," the report says.
I alway thought it was a load of hooey that terrorism was ruled out even as the plane lay burning
Oy, have you just opened a can of worms.
I seriously doubt this. Al-Queda has neve been shy about claiming credit for such "victories". If they were truly able to bring down another plane just 2 months after 9-11, they would have been shouting it from the rooftops.
Allow me to be the first to say, "BUSH'S FAULT!"
/sarcasm
An al-Qaeda operative says it, and they print it as fact. I suppose they believe everything that comes out of anyone's mouth, except a US Republican. Piss poor reporting.
They were actually pretty shy about claiming credit for 9/11.
I was thinking 587 was terrorism too
Methinks this operative might have taken a clue from Kerry and was pumping up his war record...
But of course. On the day of the wreck, while it was still burning, NTSB officials were jumping up and down and screaming that it wasn't terrorism. Pretty unusual for an organization that isn't supposed to comment on an investigation until the official accident report comes out.
I'm not buying this yet.
*duh*
Next someone will tell us that EgyptAir 990 was also a terrorist downing.
Some people are smart enough to KNOW these things, even when the gov't is in instant denial --- especially when the gov't is in instant denial.
Actually, I just read an article today that claims the opposite.
No, I remember a widely-broadcast video of Osama himself claiming credit for 9-11. It was delivered by Al-Queda to Al-Jazeera, who then passed it on to real news outlets.
Well it looks like terrorists are being caught all over the world all the time. Sorry it took attacking America to do it.
Bush has done a super job in motivating world leaders of this real threat.
Why did you buy it when the gov't said it WASN'T a terrorist attack?
Of course it was a shoe bomb style attack .... I have very little faith in American citizens who doubt the obvious just because they prefer to watch sugarplums dance in their heads.
I think it was more clearcut TWA-800 was terrorism. You at least have people on the record , or acting in a way consistent with treating it as a terrorist act, until the boom got lowered by Clinton to perfore a "swerve".
Why would Al-Queda knock off a plane full of Dominican?
If it was a suicide mission by Jdey, shouldn't they be able to place him on the passenger list (even if he used an alias, shouldn't someone no one can identify/place stand out)? Even, possibly, have some remains?
How many bridges have you purchased lately?
Actually, no.
Al Qaeda doesn't claim responsibility for their actions.
They didn't for the Embassy bombins, the USS Cole or 9-11.
Really. Let's stick to the obvious facts. Al Qaida never took credit for either flight 587 or flight 800. If it was Al Qaida that took down both flights, Bin Laden wouldn't have been publically silent. The terrorists would have been shouting it from the roof tops.
Except there were no passengers on board with a Canadian passport. Hmmmm.
Actually all the NTSB said on the day of the crash was that they had no evidence it was terrorism, and that was in direct response to a reporter's question. No jumping up and down, no saying it was or wasn't anything, just truthfully answering a stupidly timed question.
Sure, the bolts on the tail just suddenly came loose, just like a spark burned through the fuel tank and caused an explosion.
They didn't claim EgyptAir990 either -- not publicly. But the government officials knew. Clinton knew.
You mean the tail section didn't just fall off all by itself?
I always thought that one of the MO's of Al-Queda was not to acknowledge their hand behind any specific operation, especially immediately after it happens. I do not believe they have ever came right out and said "Yep , it was us" in regard to 9-11. The Bin Laden videos of late 2001 make references to it and you can surmise what they mean, but never a clear "I did it" press release. Splinter groups out to get free PR always take credit like the Russian planes and the Palestinian group with 9-11.
Yep, and I was expecting the same thing to happen regarding the Russian jets, but it seems the Russian government has chosen honesty. Or at least they think they would have been fooling no one since they crashed three minutes apart.
nah, the engines just fell off by themselves ... happens all the time ... [/sarcasm]
Pretty easy to tell. Check the flight manifest.
bump
I don't remember about the Cole or the embassies, but there was a videotape of Osama claiming responsibility for 9-11 all over the television not long afterward (a couple of months or so).
That is one of the regrettable fallouts of governments covering up terrorist attacks as accidents.
Many terrorist groups want notoriety for their actions. Thus, if a government covers up an act (singular acts called accidents, bad fuel, broken fuel line, cross winds from another plane, etc.), it emboldens those terrorist groups to commit bigger and more expansive acts that are too big to be covered up and classified as accidents.
Flight 800 might have been explaned away as an accident. Was it terrorist or accident? We need the truth.
Flight 587 might have been explaned away as an accident. Was it terrorist or accident? We need the truth.
One plane hitting one of the Twin Towers might have been explained away as an accident. Two planes, much more difficult to explain away. Three planes, impossible to explain away.
There were 30 odd witnesses to an explosion. The single thing that makes it a possibility though (for me) is that vertical stabilizers simply don't separate from airplanes in flight. It would be like your nose separating from your face in a stiff breeze.
Actually, he wasn't claiming responsibility.
He was just applauding the actions.
I find it amazing that all the eyewitnesses on the ground who reported seeing a small explosion by the right wing of the plane were never heard from again.
I've smelled "terrorist" on this since day one.
Faulty rudder my arse.
Agreed. However, a lot of people here seem to think that every plane crash is caused by terrorism or the USN.
Al Quaeda knocked off a plane load of Hispanic people because they can disguise themselves as such.... Three middle-eastern men escaped a ship in Texas a couple of years ago and hid out in a motel in Waco. Everyone thought they were just quiet Mexicans - even the Mexican maid.
I never believed either of them were accidents
Uh, no. That was a home videotape discovered by U.S. Troops in a safehouse in Afghanistan. It was not a tape made by Osama for broadcast as a claim of responsibiliy.
I think if 9-11 was just an attack by a single plane, we may still be in denial that it was a terrorist act.
That is because if you read the eyewitnesses statements, you get something like this.
- The left engine was on fire
And all you hair-trigger tinfoilers were screaming terrorism before the parts even hit the ground. On every train wreck thread you guys scream terrorism, coverup, and completely wear out that "nothing to see here, move along" blather, though NONE have been connected to terrorism, and the rate post-911 is no higher than before.
Never let facts, logic, or occam's razor delay your rushing to conclusions...
Just as some of us have little faith in kookburgers who blame every act on terrorism.
If there was no Jday on the manifest, or no one with a Canadian passport, then you've been had, again.
Pretty unusual for an organization that isn't supposed to comment on an investigation until the official accident report comes out. Not if it is very close to where, just weeks before, 3000 people died in a terrorist attack. Hardly typical circumstances-- the concern to prevent wild speculation and resulting panic may have required a pre-emptive statement.
I guess you've never seen the video of the F-117 losing one of its vertical stabilizers during a fly-by. It was pretty dramatic. As was the fireball when it hit the ground. I'm guessing it must have been a shoebomber.
Shoebomber Reid was touted as a lone nutcase, too, until it became impossible to cover up the al-Qaeda connections and associations that came to light with him.
Actually it does happen sometimes:
http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/2000/000210a%5F.htm
http://www.ntsb.gov/scripts/search/ch_smpl.idq?CiCatalog=d%3A%5CInetPub%5C&HTMLQueryForm=%2Fsearch%2Fsrch_ch.htm&CiBookMark=N-2d547d0-274c-b&CiColumns=filename%2Csize%2Crank%2Ccharacterization%2Cvpath%2CDocTitle%2Cwrite&CiFlags=DEEP&CiRestriction=%28tail+seperation%29AND+NOT+%23vpath+*%5Citsa*+AND+NOT+%23vpath+%5Ccustomer*+AND+NOT+%23vpath+*%5Cspecial*+AND+NOT+%23vpath+*%5C_vti_*+AND+NOT+%23vpath+*%5Cexchange*+AND+NOT+*%5C*.log+AND+NOT+*%5C*.asp*+AND+NOT+*%5C*.ascx+AND+NOT+*%5C*config*+AND+NOT+*%5C*.vb*+AND+NOT+*%5C*.xml+AND+NOT+*%5C*.wmz+AND+NOT+*%5C*.emz+AND+NOT+*%5C*.mso+AND+NOT+*%5C*.jar+AND+NOT+*%5C*.asa+AND+NOT+*%5C*_HIDDEN.*+AND+NOT+*%5C*.png+AND+NOT+*%5C*.mno+AND+NOT+*%5C*.js+AND+NOT+*%5C*.dwt+AND+NOT+*%5C*.bak+AND+NOT+*%5C*.css+AND+NOT+*%5C*.cfm&TextRestriction=tail+seperation&CiMaxRecordsInResultSet=300&CiMaxRecordsPerPage=10&CiScope=%2F%2CCIS2%2CCIS3%2CCIS4%2CCIS5%2CCIS6&CiTemplateChoice=1&SortProperty=rank&CiSort=rank%5Bd%5D&CiForceUseCi=TRUE&CiBookmarkSkipCount=10
Not very often, but they're parts just like everything else and sometimes parts fall off.
Not.
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