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Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief (John Lehman)
Sun Times ^ | August 28, 2004 | Thomas Lipscomb

Posted on 08/28/2004 7:30:49 AM PDT by Grampa Dave

Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief

August 28, 2004

BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB

Former Navy Secretary John Lehman has no idea where a Silver Star citation displayed on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's campaign Web site came from, he said Friday. The citation appears over Lehman's signature.

"It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me," he said.

The additional language varied from the two previous citations, signed first by Adm. Elmo Zumwalt and then Adm. John Hyland, which themselves differ. The new material added in the Lehman citation reads in part: "By his brave actions, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty, Lieutenant (jg) Kerry reflected great credit upon himself...."

Asked how the citation could have been executed over his signature without his knowledge, Lehman said: "I have no idea. I can only imagine they were signed by an autopen." The autopen is a device often used in the routine execution of executive documents in government.

Kerry senior adviser Michael Meehan could not be reached for comment on Kerry's records.

Thomas Lipscomb is chairman of the Center for the Digital Future in New York


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: ch866; citation; citations; flushthejohns; hyland; johnfabricatorkerry; johnkerry; johnlehman; kerry; kerrylies; kerrymedals; kerryphoneymedals; kerrysnamtypewriter; ktv; lehman; lurch; medals; militaryrecord; sbv; silverstar; zumwalt
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To: Timeout
Is there any kind of ping list on the subject of Kerry's military records/Swift vets/war stories? If so, I'd like to get on it.

None that I know of. Cincinnatus Wife starts many of the threads. You'll find a farily consistent set of core posters, but I'm reluctant to provide a list because I'm sure to leave out a valuable contributor.

521 posted on 08/28/2004 11:39:39 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Grampa Dave
Kerry senior adviser Michael Meehan could not be reached for comment on Kerry's records.

Oh, reeeeeally? Something has shut Meehan's alligator trap?

This may be the beginning of the end.

522 posted on 08/28/2004 11:40:20 AM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Hey, KERRY! We said it to Saddam, and now to you -- If you have nothing to hide, QUIT HIDING IT!)
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To: norton
he tossed little bits of cloth that represented every Vietnam and Vietnam era veteran and that's enough for me."<<< ME TOO!...and go ahead and rant!..its good for the soul sometimes!...Welcome Home Brother!
523 posted on 08/28/2004 11:40:41 AM PDT by M-cubed
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To: norton
he tossed little bits of cloth that represented every Vietnam and Vietnam era veteran and that's enough for me."<<< ME TOO!...and go ahead and rant!..its good for the soul sometimes!...Welcome Home Brother!
524 posted on 08/28/2004 11:41:02 AM PDT by M-cubed
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To: tutstar

They pulled everything that was linked to Bergular Dox in SoXs.

Then, after the 911 commission showed that Wilson was a liar, they removed all links to Wilson's website and pulled the plug on his website.

There have been a couple of more things deleted.

One of my younger relatives thinks by end of September, the donation page will be about all there is to his site.


525 posted on 08/28/2004 11:41:08 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (https://www.swiftvets.com/swift/ccdonation.php?op=donate&site=SwiftVets)
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To: Cboldt
Do take a moment to visit that website, and read what the Silver Star recipients did to earn their awards. I do not think the language is elaboarated, no, I don't.

Wow. Those guys were good! Words like that just don't fit John Kerry. He's too weak natured. All talk, no "oomph!" A bullshitter type of guy.

526 posted on 08/28/2004 11:41:46 AM PDT by concerned about politics ( Liberals are still stuck at the bottom of Maslow's Hierarchy)
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To: TheRightGuy

Thanks. There have been a couple of articles in the past few weeks showing the other side of Kerry, the one we know about.


527 posted on 08/28/2004 11:41:58 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (https://www.swiftvets.com/swift/ccdonation.php?op=donate&site=SwiftVets)
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To: cyncooper
Actually, you jumped to the conclusion that this was routine and the language "boiler plate".

I won't disagree with you. If I asserted that conclusion as fact, I didn't mean to. But having been in, and having been subjected to the whims of bureuacracy, it's my opinion that there is as likely to be an innocent explanation for the difference in langugae, as there is to be a deliberate "award burnishing" effort.

I do believe, OTOH, and have said so from the start, that the existence of these citations is evidence that Kerry requested replacement medals for the medals he says he didn't throw over the fence.

528 posted on 08/28/2004 11:42:26 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt
Is there any kind of ping list on the subject of Kerry's military records/Swift vets/war stories? If so, I'd like to get on it.

Look for posts from Cincinnatus Wife, chieftain, 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (personal favorite for SBV info)
529 posted on 08/28/2004 11:42:44 AM PDT by boxerblues
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To: SandRat

Kerry probably forged while in Nam, and after Nam he used embedden rats in the Pentagon to forge and lie for him.


530 posted on 08/28/2004 11:43:05 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (https://www.swiftvets.com/swift/ccdonation.php?op=donate&site=SwiftVets)
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle

Thanks I just book marked that site.


531 posted on 08/28/2004 11:44:05 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (https://www.swiftvets.com/swift/ccdonation.php?op=donate&site=SwiftVets)
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To: Grampa Dave
A buddy of mine at work had something interesting to say the other day. I don't know these things to be a fact, so I'll just write it here, and you all can mull it over.

He told me that John Kerry had rescinded one of the purple hearts. This means that he only was officially awarded two of them, which weren't enough to permit him to come home early from Vietnam, and therefore he was AWOL. ..or at least in breach of his service comittment due to falsification.

Has anybody else heard anything like this?

Ole Kerry just keeps getting in deeper and deeper. It must be terrible to want to quit, and not be able to. I think he wants to quit, but doesn't have the fortitude to do even that.
532 posted on 08/28/2004 11:44:15 AM PDT by hiredhand
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To: M-cubed


18-19 missions from my recollection

good points



533 posted on 08/28/2004 11:44:37 AM PDT by devolve ( -- Kerry & POW`s families - http://pro.lookingat.us/POW.html --)
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To: concerned about politics
Wow. Those guys were good! Words like that just don't fit John Kerry.

And now, can you see better that Kerry's Silver Star could not have been related to ANY detail regarding the dispatching of a single VC? Kerry's Silver Star citation also included attacking a numerically superior enemy force, while under intense fire. THAT is the gravamen of the Silver Star dispute, not the single VC. And so far, NO witness has come forward to reiterate Kerry's version of THAT aspect of events of February 28, 1969.

534 posted on 08/28/2004 11:46:09 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt
I haven't been able to find a thread on the article on today's front page, Washington Post: "After Decades, Renewed Debate on Old Conflict"

I almost jumped out of my chair when I saw this:

The FBI kept careful tabs on the protesters through a network of informers, who tracked Kerry's movements. The FBI records help to disprove a long-standing claim by Kerry that he resigned from the VVAW leadership in the summer of 1971, before the organization began to flirt with proposals for radical civil disobedience and even violence.

The FBI records show that Kerry was present for a particularly contentious meeting in Kansas City, Mo., in November 1971, at which plans were discussed for the assassination or kidnapping of government officials or the takeover of the Statue of Liberty. The proposal was overwhelmingly voted down, and the files record that Kerry wanted VVAW "to stay strictly non-violent." According to the FBI files, he resigned from the organization in Kansas City after an angry showdown with radicals led by a firebrand named Al Hubbard.

Told about the FBI records earlier this year, Kerry said through a spokesman that he now accepted he must have been in Kansas City for the November meeting while continuing to insist that he had "no personal recollection" of the contentious debate. Many people associated with VVAW find this difficult to believe.

"There was no way he would have forgotten about being in Kansas City," said Nicosia, who is generally sympathetic to Kerry.

Former VVAW Kansas state coordinator John Musgrave, who served with the Marines in Vietnam, expressed extreme doubt about Kerry's stated recollection. "He had a tremendous confrontation with Hubbard at that meeting. How can he claim not to have any memory of it?"

"These meetings were chaotic, confused and very noisy," countered John Hurley, director of the Veterans for Kerry movement [ever the boot licker], which claims a membership of 300,000 [Bullsh##t!]. According to Hurley, it was easy to confuse one meeting with another as Kerry was "flying all over the country from one college campus to another."

Never thought I'd live to see this reported in the WaPo!
535 posted on 08/28/2004 11:48:15 AM PDT by Timeout (“If John Kerry loses, it will be the parade we never had.”--Anonymous Vietnam Vet)
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To: mabelkitty

No, he isn't changing his story
if he's talking about two entirely
different things. In one quote he
says he was part of providing
Kerry with replacements; in the
other quote he says he did not
know of, authorize or sign the
doc containing new language over
& above the original citation.

Kerry's site has PADDED words
in the doc over Lehman's name,
wording added on that he disavows.
That makes Kerry's camp dishonest,
not Lehman.

As I posted to you, the Dems did
not appoint Lehman to the 9-11
Com. - Republican Leaders Frist
& Hastert did.

You thought he was a Dem plot.


536 posted on 08/28/2004 11:48:34 AM PDT by txrangerette
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To: mass55th; MeekOneGOP; PhilDragoo; Smartass; devolve; IPWGOP; Lady Jag; Happy2BMe

Great Find.

Okay, FR Graphic Art Great Ones, have fun with these 3 signatures.


537 posted on 08/28/2004 11:48:54 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (https://www.swiftvets.com/swift/ccdonation.php?op=donate&site=SwiftVets)
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To: libs_kma

The libs are not giving an inch and will never believe the reality.

This is a battle for the moderates, independents and Nam Vets who may have voted Rat for various reasons.


538 posted on 08/28/2004 11:50:32 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (https://www.swiftvets.com/swift/ccdonation.php?op=donate&site=SwiftVets)
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To: Timeout
I haven't been able to find a thread on the article on today's front page, Washington Post: "After Decades, Renewed Debate on Old Conflict"

Wow. I haven't seen it either, and it deserves its own thread. Kerry is getting hit on Vietnam from many angles, and rightfully so. I hope he is publicly disgraced, he certainly desrves it.

539 posted on 08/28/2004 11:51:04 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Moomah

Lets hope that moi Kerry loses in about 45 of the 50 states so your book scenario never happens.


540 posted on 08/28/2004 11:51:36 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (https://www.swiftvets.com/swift/ccdonation.php?op=donate&site=SwiftVets)
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