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Dow 40,000, Nasdaq 20,000 by 2009; Harry Dent predicts a 'New Millionaire Economy'
CBS MarketWatch.com ^ | 11/03/2004 | Paul B. Farrell

Posted on 11/03/2004 4:12:45 PM PST by SierraWasp

Dow 40,000, Nasdaq 20,000 by 2009; Harry Dent predicts a 'New Millionaire Economy'

By Paul B. Farrell, CBS.MarketWatch.com Last Update: 9:25 PM ET Nov. 2, 2004

ARROYO GRANDE, Calif. (CBS.MW) -- You want some optimism? Well folks, after a flatlining market and the brutal, negative election campaign we've been dragged through, America desperately needs some optimism. And here it is. Harry Dent's latest predictions: Dow 40,000, Nasdaq 20,000 by 2009.

In many ways, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the war on terror were no match for the divisive domestic "war" for the American presidency. It's been absolute torture. So thank goodness for Dent's optimism. The guy's a breath of fresh air.

In fact, Dent wins our annual Super-Optimist Award. He's the No. 1 cheerleader for America's stock market. You will love reading the predictions in his new book, "The Next Great Bubble Boom: How to Profit from the Greatest Boom in History: 2005-2009."

Actually Dent's more than a super-optimist, he's America's ultimate contrarian. So what if his archrival Robert Prechter is predicting a 100-year bear? So what if SmartMoney just reconfirmed the conventional wisdom of Buffett, Bogle and Gross, who are forecasting single-digit returns through 2009? So what if InvestmentNews is telling professional advisers that insider activity is so negative it's now the "canary in the coal mine" signaling that "it's time to sell stocks?"

And so what if Dent's late-nineties books, like "The Great Boom Ahead" and "The Roaring 2000s," were way off the mark and probably resulted in investors hanging on too long as the bear market wiped out $8 trillion of stock market value between 2000 and 2002.

Even bigger than late 1990's boom!

You gotta love his chutzpa: Now he says that correction was right on schedule and we are still on track for Dow 40,000 by 2009. Nothing gets in the way of his optimism: "We are seeing another very strong bull market unfolding from the bottom" of the correction, and "2005 is going to be very strong." Indeed, things are even "better than the 1990's!"

In a 1997 Mutual Funds magazine feature Dent was pitted against super-bear Prechter. Dent predicted 21,000 by 2008. A couple years later he predicted Dow 41,000 by 2008.

Okay, maybe that seems a tad improbable, given 2004's flat market. But at least he isn't as over the top as Dan Kadlec's 1999 book, "Dow 100,000," which Kadlec said was reachable by 2020 with a mere 11.1 percent annual growth.

Irrational exuberance or rational optimism?

But fact or fantasy? You decide. As always, Dent's conclusions are based on some simple assumptions about demographic trends, his area of expertise.

Fortunately, the guy's both entertaining as a futurist and analytically overloaded with tons of demographic, economic, monetary and market numbers. This time his forecasts boil down to five major trends propelling America from 2005 to 2009:

The third and final bubble of a bull that started in the early 1980s. We're about to see the "greatest bull market and technology bubble of the last two centuries." The technology revolution regenerated: "We are on the brink of the tech revolution's second phase, as new technologies move fully into the mainstream and a new generation hits the peak of its spending and productivity cycle."

The "decade hangover cycle:" Corporations are just now wrapping up the consolidation phase following the late '90s bubble that lead to the 2000-2002 correction. America is now ripe for a "rapid emergence of new technologies" that will drive a new phase of economic boom.

The 80-year technology cycle. Dent is also predicting a rapid assimilation of new technologies similar to the 1920s. A new phase of the 1990s technology revolution will continue spreading low-cost versions to the masses.

Baby boomers move into high gear. Dent expects the "incredible earning, spending and productivity cycle of the massive baby boom generation" to continue driving the whole world as the "unprecedented economic boom of the past 25 years" races to a frenzied peak in 2009 ... before another bust.

These five trends will drive the boom to Dow 40,000 by 2009, creating what Dent calls "The New Millionaire Economy," a time of such great prosperity you can expect a 50 percent increase in the number of American millionaires. How's that for optimism and opportunity, my fellow Americans!

Play the market to win ... then get out

What's your best strategy? How do you play to win? For savvy, active investors he's got some aggressive market-timing strategies. But you really don't have to play market-timing games that'll increase your risks. Instead, Dent tells investors to make their bets based on a familiar 1990s kind of market assumption ... that a rising tide lifts all boats.

His core strategy is a basic asset-allocation strategy, nothing really extraordinary: Just stick with a well-diversified, buy-and-hold portfolio for the long-term, one that'll float you up as the market rises to Dow 40,000, perhaps even putting you among all the "New Millionaires" that he sees coming by 2009.

Fortunately his strategy also protects you if his optimistic predictions don't play out and the market continues flatlining, or worse yet, does a Prechter flip-flop and crashes.

Whatever you do, remember Dent's a macroeconomist, a mega-demographer and an optimistic futurist. Guy's like him get paid to see the world through rose-colored glasses. They thrive on broad sweeping long-term projections, forecasts and predictions.

You an optimist, pessimist, or flatliner?

And even with all his warts, Dent's vision of the market is most welcome after this insane, destructive election war. I applaud his optimism.

But, irrational exuberance aside, how serious should we take Dent's predictions of a Dow 40,000 by 2009? Or do you put more faith in Prechter's 100-year bear market prediction, with the Dow dropping below 1000? See previous Paul B. Farrell.

Which are you: A Harry Dent-optimist, or a Bob Prechter-pessimist? Or maybe something in between, a market flat-liner? What do you think? Send us an email!


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial
KEYWORDS: boom; horsemanure; optimism
Eat this... Euro Socialists!!!
1 posted on 11/03/2004 4:12:45 PM PST by SierraWasp
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To: SierraWasp

The DJ is up ove 100 just today!


2 posted on 11/03/2004 4:14:47 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (God is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: SierraWasp

P.S. and oil futures are down another $0.51/bbl today!


3 posted on 11/03/2004 4:15:49 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (God is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: SierraWasp

Babylon (Iraq) will be a glorious place.


4 posted on 11/03/2004 4:17:13 PM PST by marbren
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To: SierraWasp

Den-- He predicted a 100,000 Dow Jones prior to the burst of the Internet Bubble in The Roaring 90's....


5 posted on 11/03/2004 4:19:04 PM PST by freebilly (freebillus est freeperus bonus....)
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To: freebilly

The Roaring 2000's....


6 posted on 11/03/2004 4:19:46 PM PST by freebilly (freebillus est freeperus bonus....)
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To: SierraWasp
Perhaps Dent has been reading Kurzweil's Law of Accelerating Returns.

An analysis of the history of technology shows that technological change is exponential, contrary to the common-sense "intuitive linear" view. So we won't experience 100 years of progress in the 21st century -- it will be more like 20,000 years of progress (at today's rate). The "returns," such as chip speed and cost-effectiveness, also increase exponentially. There's even exponential growth in the rate of exponential growth. Within a few decades, machine intelligence will surpass human intelligence, leading to The Singularity -- technological change so rapid and profound it represents a rupture in the fabric of human history. The implications include the merger of biological and nonbiological intelligence, immortal software-based humans, and ultra-high levels of intelligence that expand outward in the universe at the speed of light.

7 posted on 11/03/2004 4:19:48 PM PST by AZLiberty (Proud to be an infidel.)
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To: SierraWasp

I hope not.... there is no way the company's could increase thier value in 5 years to justify that market valuation.

I'm happy to see an overall annual return in the 5-6% range which is close the the historical norm.


8 posted on 11/03/2004 4:21:12 PM PST by montanajoe
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To: AZLiberty
Within a few decades, machine intelligence will surpass human intelligence

It's already happened. You haven't spoken with a Dem lately, have you...?

9 posted on 11/03/2004 4:21:22 PM PST by freebilly (freebillus est freeperus bonus....)
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To: SierraWasp

OK. Let's not get carried away. According to MOST economists, some real successful ones, we are most likely in middle of bear cycle, interrupted by cyclical BULL markets, also known as Sucker's Rallys (Current market being one of those Sucker Rallies).

So, Get out of the market when Nasdaq is around 2,300 or at least put very tight STOP LOSS orders.

High OIL prices, DEFICITS, and growing PERSONAL Debts, are going to put a hurt on us, towards the end of next year, especially as interest rates continue to rise.

Jim Rogers is a Smart Man and he shares this view as well.

In couple of years, we should have another one of these Sucker Rallies, so Don't miss it.

Here are few symbols to LOOK at if you want to take advantage of the TAIL END of current rally:

FUR
CMGI
ADCT
SPIL
CNXT
NT
LU
HOFF
CTGI
ENCY

etc....


10 posted on 11/03/2004 4:23:14 PM PST by The_Republican
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To: SierraWasp
Dent's smoking something. By '08 it will likely be Dow @ 15K, Nasdaq back to 5K, and S&P around 2.5K. And that's if Bush can get some of his domestic legislation passed now: Energy bill, immigration reform, tort reform, social partial prvatization of social security, making tax cuts permanent.

Hopefully the Senate RINO's won't get in his way.

11 posted on 11/03/2004 4:24:33 PM PST by DTogo (U.S. out of the U.N. & U.N out of the U.S.)
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To: SierraWasp

WOOOPEEEE ANOTHER BUBBLE ECONOMY TO GO CRAZY AND THEN CRASH AND BURN!!!


Calm down folks, the economy can only grow so fast and the stock market can't outgrow the economy for long - it's tied to profits, bottomline.

This is a wild and silly prediction.

The stock market will double - in due course of time - when the economy doubles.


12 posted on 11/03/2004 4:25:07 PM PST by WOSG (George W Bush / Dick Cheney - 4 MORE YEARS!)
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To: SierraWasp

Sounds like a guy trying to sell books. What has he ever done that anyone should listen to him?


13 posted on 11/03/2004 4:26:21 PM PST by Honestfreedom
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To: Grampa Dave; Dog Gone; Steven W.; BOBTHENAILER
The path to a lot of this has just been cleared yesterday!!!

Only in America! The Franco/Germanic Euro-Socialists can neither do this, or participate in anything like this! They, like our Democrats, can only be envious!!!

America is truly an exceptional nation, not just a "SuperPower!"

As Eve said to Adam... "Better stand back, honey... We don't know how big this thing is gonna get!"

14 posted on 11/03/2004 4:27:29 PM PST by SierraWasp (Discredited Democrats... Concede already!!! Discredited MSM... Project already!!! New Media Rules!!!)
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To: freebilly
You haven't spoken with a Dem lately, have you...?

My australian shepard has better common sense than the looney left.

15 posted on 11/03/2004 4:29:03 PM PST by kezekiel
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To: SierraWasp
I've always thought Dent was a PR man for mutual fund companies. Is he right? Could be. Another four years from now freedom could be spreading like wildfire in the Mid-east. The US will continue to be the sole superpower for what...? three hundred years? Technology could explode at an exponential rate.

But when all's said and done, nothing changes in the financial markets. They will do what they always have, like a shark and his prey, the markets must move to live. Every 20 years or so there will be an unrecognizable bubble and people will make lots of money and then lose it all. Twenty years is a generation and people invest money for a reason: someday they will need that money. If the markets are at the bottom when they need it weeelll..SOL.

Dent is the eternal optimist. What did he do to protect all those retirees who lost fortunes in '00, '01, '02?

Dow 40,000? Maybe, who would have thought 3,000 in the early nineties would triple in less than ten years.

16 posted on 11/03/2004 4:31:28 PM PST by groanup
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To: SierraWasp

Funny you should post this...about 6 months ago I found an old tape of a Brian Lamb interview with James Glassman, author of Dow 35000 (or 36000?) from august, 1999. According to Glassman's cogent analysis, we were due to hit 35000 in 5 years...that is, August, 2004. He was off a bit.


17 posted on 11/03/2004 4:32:42 PM PST by CAPTAIN PHOTON
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To: WOSG
The stock market will double - in due course of time - when the economy doubles.

Exactly. Quadrupling by 2009 is unlikely, but productivity growth has been very strong the last few years. It's possible we're starting to enter the knee of the Singularity growth curve.

18 posted on 11/03/2004 4:36:24 PM PST by ThinkDifferent (A plan is not a litany of complaints)
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To: SierraWasp
I am very optimistic about the growth of this economy, but I ain't buying a 30,000 point rise in five years. And market timing is probably the worst way to invest in the market, unless you have the brains to be a contrarian.

That requires discipline to sell before the high is reached and buying before the bottom is reached. Sounds crazy, but it's true.

19 posted on 11/03/2004 4:45:33 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: groanup; Carry_Okie

It's all about confidence and the power of positive thinking. That's what I so despise about Dems and EnvironMentalists! They drag all of society and it's economic potential down with Commonistic GovernMental parasitism!!! (to say nothing of analysis paralysis)


20 posted on 11/03/2004 4:46:26 PM PST by SierraWasp (Discredited Democrats... Concede already!!! Discredited MSM... Project already!!! New Media Rules!!!)
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To: The_Republican

Bob Brinker believes it's a cyclical bull also, and he's been dead-on calling the trends. I've noticed the market has been on a cautious upswing for the past few weeks, which makes me think traders had a good idea Dubya would win, but there was a possibility of the terror world pulling a Spain on us. Actually, I'm a bit surprised they didn't get something off to try to influence the election. Anyway, they ain't all that smart about Americans, or they wouldn't have given the impression they endorsed Kerry. If they had shut up, maybe the election would have been a lot closer than it was.


21 posted on 11/03/2004 4:57:49 PM PST by FlyVet
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To: Dog Gone; Grampa Dave
I like to keep an eye on two indicators. One is this and the other is Trim Tabs reports on how money is moving in and out of cash (money market funds), to and from stock, or bond funds.

Harry Dent is a student of historical cycles, demographics and especially human nature! Like politics is the art of the possible, I like Harry because he looks for the upper limits possible in macro-economics.

The "establishment" always relies on "conventional wisdom" and it just thrills me when the "establishment's" sclerotic thinking gets blown away, just like what is happening with the Dan Rathers of the MSM, right now!!!

22 posted on 11/03/2004 5:20:48 PM PST by SierraWasp (Discredited Democrats... Concede already!!! Discredited MSM... Project already!!! New Media Rules!!!)
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To: freebilly

Yep, Dent has been uncannily accurate in the past. His book The Great Boom Ahead predicted the 1990's to a tee. I urge everyone to read his latest book. Most won't bother.

Unfortunately, if he's right, it means the Republicans will own the government until 2012, after which this country will most certainly go not-so-gradually socialist. The GOP will be blamed for an economic decline which was not of their making and no one could avoid.


23 posted on 11/03/2004 5:21:32 PM PST by showpromid (Victory 2004!!!!)
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To: showpromid
it means the Republicans will own the government until 2012, after which this country will most certainly go not-so-gradually socialist. The GOP will be blamed for an economic decline which was not of their making and no one could avoid.

White House: Debt Ceiling Must Be Raised
Foreigners own half US debt, tipping point unclear

24 posted on 11/03/2004 5:26:14 PM PST by Willie Green
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To: SierraWasp
"It's all about confidence and the power of positive thinking. That's what I so despise about Dems and EnvironMentalists!"

EXACTLY! John Edwards based his whole candidacy on people starving in America. First of all, it ain't happenin'. Secondly, a case can be made that............NOTHING IS WRONG! Hey democRATS, hear that? Nothing is wrong. You don't have to go out and "fight" for people. Everybody is ok, OK? Leave us alone, keep your lawyers in lower Manhattan where they belong. We want to engage in commerce and make money with you. But leave us alone otherwise.

IMHO there just might not be anything wrong. And if there is, could the blame be placed on poor individual choices? What a radical concept.

25 posted on 11/03/2004 7:42:43 PM PST by groanup
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To: SierraWasp

If this is true, the 'Rats are history. The Republicans will be in control for a generation and the Libertarians will be the new "second" party.


26 posted on 11/03/2004 7:47:09 PM PST by wagglebee (Memo to sKerry: the only think Bush F'ed up was your career)
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To: SierraWasp

I'm not buying Harry Dent's pipe dreams again. He was so wrong about the bubble, it's amazing he would ever show his face again.

That being said, yes, I believe the market will continue its decades-long upward trend, and I am fully participating for the loooong run. I'm just going to be well diversified, and I'm going to ignore pseudo-experts like Dent.


27 posted on 11/03/2004 8:24:02 PM PST by Choose Ye This Day ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots." -- Ulysses S. Grant (a Republican))
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To: SierraWasp; Willie Green; ninenot

This scenario timeline go well with my theory of hyper inflation to pay/fund the national debt, and fund the empty social security 'lock box' commitments which will start coming due in about 2008.

The DOW going to 40,000 would be about right, for a total inflation rate of 400%, and all the free traitors who wish to foist our debt 'paper' and dollars on foreigners and others, to support our enormous trade and monetary deficits.

Yep, it's all lining up. $8/gallon gasoline, 40k DOW, $400k houses, $80k cars. Yup... it's all lining up.


28 posted on 11/03/2004 8:57:48 PM PST by XBob (Free-traitors steal our jobs for their profit.)
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To: groanup; Carry_Okie; Amerigomag; NormsRevenge; tubebender; hedgetrimmer; forester; Seadog Bytes; ...
"Leave us alone"

That's just it! They never will! The preachy, teachy bastards are just obsessed with their "vision" of "social justice" and GovernMentalism that they pound in everyone's face with such perpetual evangelistic missionary zeal that they're worse than a newly converted Christian who was just baptized!!!

They've been losing elections because they are threatening. They somehow suceed in making Conservatives and Christians be perceived as threatening to hide their own threatening intensity in a shroud of pseudo populism or do-gooderism. They are fatiguing to the max!!!

Elliot Spitzer is a great current example of the lawyers of which you speak, that have a detrimental impact on commerce far beyond the realm of lower Manhattan. Rudy Juliannie was a good AG and he didn't shotgun aspersions and malicious, selective prosecutions at entire industries like Spitzer is doing at the insurance industry!

Democrats like Spitzer just HATE the insurance industry for the social good it does as private sector entities because they think this should be done only through the public sector as the only trustworthy element of society! That's pure unadulterated crappola and Socialism!!!

Without the parasitic burden of extreme GovernMental/EnvironMental Socialism we have been enduring since the FDR administration, the US would be light-years ahead of where it is today! IMO!!!

29 posted on 11/03/2004 9:04:56 PM PST by SierraWasp (Discredited Democrats... Concede already!!! Discredited MSM... Project already!!! New Media Rules!!!)
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To: Willie Green; The_Republican

I think the only thing that can be done is convincing people to get out of and stay out of debt. A mortgage is not supposed to be comfortable or a source of income.


30 posted on 11/04/2004 2:13:34 AM PST by Baby Bear (Conserve and grow your money...gain power in return.)
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To: SierraWasp

Elliot Spitzer is out of control. Notice how all those settlements collectively amounted to over a billion? Sounds huge. Actually it was about one or two months revenue per firm. But Spitzer got his headline.


31 posted on 11/04/2004 5:34:06 AM PST by groanup
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To: SierraWasp

Dent has indeed been uncannily accurate. Even so, he's a trend follower.

But this is roughly a 31% componded annual rate of return. While not impossible, extremely unlikely.

Simple reversion to the mean beginning at the end of the last bull run (a 10 percent return beginning January 1 2000 through December 31 2009) suggests a Dow 28,000. The problem here is that the 10 year number on the S&P 500, (neither a foolish price weighted index not a tech heavy abomination) is better than 12% as of 12/31/05. Reversion to the mean employing that information suggests dramatic underperformance for stocks.

If I had a five year time horizon, I would avoid aggressively investing in stocks, much less in aggressive stocks.

Make sure you have 10 years. 20 is much better. And count on our corporations to innovate, invent and lead the way through!

The good news is that economists don't manage money.

Yours in portfolio management,

Sentinel


32 posted on 02/01/2005 9:48:06 AM PST by Plymouth Sentinel
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To: Plymouth Sentinel; wagglebee; Dog Gone; Grampa Dave; Southack; Steven W.; BOBTHENAILER
"Harry Dent predicts a 'New Millionaire Economy'"

Of course he's a "trend follower!" How else does anyone figure anything out about the future? If it' weren't for time, everything would happen all at once!!!

I like Harry and George! One predicts the "new Millionaire Economy," and the other predicts the "new Ownership Society!" God Speed, Harry & George!!!

Good grief, Sentinel of Plymouth, you snagged this thead from last november? Nice to know it's not really a "dead thread!" (grin)

33 posted on 02/01/2005 10:00:05 AM PST by SierraWasp (al-Najr, 38, after casting a ballot for the first time in his life. "I get to say I'm human now.")
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To: SierraWasp
"The Next Great Bubble Boom: How to Profit from the Greatest Boom in History: 2005-2009."

I'll put this on my reading list, I'm still working on "The Crash of 1995".

34 posted on 02/01/2005 10:01:34 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Put on your red shoes and dance the blues.)
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To: SierraWasp

Wow! With those numbers I could retire very early. (I was targeting 2017 or so.) Will earnings really increase enough to sustain that valuation? That suggests we keep economic growth above the 3 to 4 percent range for four years consecutive and that interest rates remain very low. And, since the exchanges usually value the future of a stock, it also suggests that such a situation exists for as far as the eye can see.


35 posted on 02/01/2005 10:05:31 AM PST by jimfree (Freep and Ye Shall Find)
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To: SierraWasp

Someone was saying several years ago that the real estate market strips money from the stock market and vice-versa.

According to him, if the stock market gets pumped up, the dollars are coming from a real estate price collapse.

Make of it what you will...


36 posted on 02/01/2005 10:08:14 AM PST by RobRoy (I like you. You remind me of myself when I was young and stupid.)
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To: XBob

Yep, that's about it. If the Dow is at 40,000, milk will be $15.00 a gallon and bread will be $12.00 a loaf.


37 posted on 02/01/2005 10:12:01 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves
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To: SierraWasp

Go DOW 40,000.

Invest heavily in Tech!

Have your stop-loss orders set.

Optimist that I am.


38 posted on 02/01/2005 10:12:08 AM PST by roaddog727 (The marginal propensity to save is 1 minus the marginal propensity to consume.)
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To: roaddog727; Plymouth Sentinel
Them "stop-loss orders" have got a risk to 'em, also. What if they "go-off" just before a major bull market rally? That's usually my luck! I'ma a buy and holder till I see big trends or freaky events like the big bear of 2000 and/or a terror attack! Even then I like to switch to cash only till I see an upward trend!! Even then, life's a constant risk, thank goodness. Without it, there'd be no rewards possible!!!

Oh... I still shy away from tech/NASDAQ stuff for a little longer. There sure is trillions of tons of cash still stashed on the sidelines that could make for a "secular bull" that I don't wanna miss, however. So be careful out there... will ya???

39 posted on 02/01/2005 12:19:38 PM PST by SierraWasp (al-Najr, 38, after casting a ballot for the first time in his life. "I get to say I'm human now.")
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To: SierraWasp

"So be careful out there... will ya???"

No doubt.


40 posted on 02/01/2005 12:21:39 PM PST by roaddog727 (The marginal propensity to save is 1 minus the marginal propensity to consume.)
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To: roaddog727; Plymouth Sentinel
I was just doin my old Hill Street Blues impersonation, no doubt!!!

Hey Sentinel! I had a cherry 1953 Plymouth in 1962, but is wasn't a Sentinel!!!

41 posted on 02/01/2005 12:43:43 PM PST by SierraWasp (al-Najr, 38, after casting a ballot for the first time in his life. "I get to say I'm human now.")
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To: SierraWasp

Hey Sierra,

Never got me one a them.

However, 10 days back we got a NorEaster. Plymouth, Massachusetts managed to be at the center. We got 38 official inches, and another dozen or so two days after.

I'm now the proud owner of a nine horse electric starting 28 inch deck 24 inch intake halogen headlighted fire engine red snow thrower.

Go man go!

Can't wait for the next snowstorm, which is now unlikely to occur until after the 5 year warranty expires.


42 posted on 02/02/2005 11:10:23 AM PST by Plymouth Sentinel
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