Posted on 11/26/2004 7:18:49 PM PST by Arkansas Boy
there are other letters by jefferson that are used in favor of things freepers are for...so while I think the court was wrong to use this letter... we can't say one letter should be ignored, and another letter is proof of "our side."
If you take away the Supernatural all that leaves is the Unnatural. Chesterton
I didn't know King James established the Church of England but even if he did, it was controlled by Rome until in the 1600's when King Henry VIII took over as supreme head of the church so that he controlled both religious and secular life.
Then, of course, you had Cromwell (not Henry's Cromwell but the latter one) who went after alot of those who didn't agree with the Church of England.
Or the subnatural. Walker
false!
OK, read later, if not marked already.
It's a simple proposition; subtle but deadly. Suppose that Jefferson really did argue for no mention of God anywhere in any official function. I know it's not true, but just suppose.
Given the premises of Declaration of Independence, that is, that this newfangled government comes about for want of any other form of government that ackowledges certain rights being given man by his Creator, does this not put Jefferson totally at odds with the founding documents? Indeed, at odds with himself?
But such an argument is probably unnecessary. A quick and painless reading of the Danbury letter itself ascribes all irreligious arguments to the realm of delusion.
If the federal laws of the early Republic were derived from the laws of God in the Bible, then why did the post office laws require the Sabbath to be violated to keep the mail moving and be delivered on Sundays?
Friday Slice
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If the Distinction between Church and State was the result of a misunderstanding of the U. S. Constitution, then why, in 1845, at the Texas Constitutional Convention, did the delegates hold that the well defined distinction between Church and State was required by the U. S. Constitution and essentially necessary for human liberty and happiness?
Source of Information: Page 163, Speech of Mr. Love, Debates of the Texas Constitutional Convention of 1845, William F. Weeks Reporter, Published by the authority of the convention, J. W. Cruger, 1846.
View page 163 on the web at: http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/constitutions/pdf/pdf1845debates/00000017.pdf
Friday Slice
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What is the baisis for the claim that the Prayer Journal was Washington's. I understand the Smithsonian examined the documents and determined that it was not Washington's handwritting.
Friday Slice
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If the Constitution only forbids the legislative branch from making laws respect religion then that means the Constitution does not forbid the exercise of Executive or Judicial authority over religious liberty. Thus, the Judiciary can do just about whatever it wants to do in matters of religion. If you don’t like it, that is just too bad.
If you want a strict narrow formalistic interpretation of the First Amendment that leaves the government with power over religion, don’t bitch because the government exercises that power. James Madison warned you that the same government power that can establish your views might also be used to abolish them.
Friday Slice
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Despite the handwriting not being Washington's, there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. It did bear Washington Family Provenance, it could have been writen by a secretary or associate. It really is of little matter, Washington was a devote Christian whose prayer life was important to him.
Except the legistlative and executive branch have no authority to legislate laws that effect citizens. The executive branch's sole authority to make rules is limited to those who serve under the executive branch.
Because the Constitution does require a distinction. The state is not to have authority over the church. I have no idea what your point is, but your only postings seem to indicate that you are some zealot against Christianity.
Why do I have to concede the point that America was established so that the people would have the “freedom of religion”? The fact is, the phrase “freedom of religion” is not found in the First Amendment, or anywhere in the Constitution.
This statement “freedom of religion” is made in memoranda written by James Madison, circa 1820. It does not exist any part of the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution itself, nor does it appear in any law or legislation. It appears in memoranda, written by James Madison, with the intention of making it clear that our duties to the Creator would not be under the authority of the state in any way whatsoever.
This memorandum is a memorandum, it is not a piece of legislation, and it has not been officially made a law of the US. Therefore, the so-called freedom of religion does not exist; in fact the basic belief that God does not belong in government surely does exist within the Constitution. God is never even mentioned in the substance of the Constitution. That is why, at the time it was ratified in 1788, those who opposed the new system of government called it the “Godless Constitution.”
Friday Slice
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Please provide one good example of a judicial ruling that permitted the government to punish a Christian for his religious sentiments.
Friday Slice
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I loved you comments. Here is my two cents.
The metaphysical foundation of the Separation of Church and State - as espoused by James Madison and Thomas Jefferson as articulated in the Memorial and Remonstrance and the Virginia Statute for Establishing Religious Freedom of 1786 – was the Protestant theological beliefs that the Almighty required that a man pay homage to the Creator as directed by God and communicated to man via his conscience, and that God demanded total and absolute power over a man’s conscience.
If a man was required by God to follow the dictates of the conscience and if God demanded total and absolute power over a man’s conscience, then it followed that no man had the legitimate authority to prevent or impede another man from following the dictates of his conscience regarding his duties to the Creator or to even attempt to influence a man’s conscience with respect to the same.
It was sinful for a man to even consider the advice of government in matters of the conscience because man must consider only the recommendations of the Creator. It was an offense against God for any man to use the authority of the government to influence another man’s conscience because to do so was a trespass upon the prerogatives of the Hand of Providence. .
It was Thomas Jefferson’s respect for these theological doctrines that required him to refuse to perform any official act that even implied that he claimed authority over the duties we owe to the Creator. Thus, he refused the request for him to issue a recommendation of thanksgiving and prayer to the American people.
The religious doctrine was mostly developed by the Baptists and known as the doctrine of “Soul Liberty”. Jefferson as a youth frequently attended Baptist divine services with his favorite aunt. Dolly Madison claimed that Jefferson told her that many of his ideas were inspired by his observations as a youth of the way the Baptist conducted their administrative and religious meetings. The Baptist in Virginia made up the largest single group of warriors that - under the leadership of Jefferson - James Madison and John Leland – destroyed government power over religion in Virginia.
Friday Slice
1slice@comcast.net
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