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What If The Sun Was To Go Out?
MadSci Network ^ | February 24, 1997 | Joseph Spitale, Grad student Planetary Science/Applied Math, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory

Posted on 12/11/2004 11:15:46 AM PST by SamAdams76

...The short answer to your question is that no one knows the answer. I have come across some interesting information, though, and I will try to give you my thoughts on the matter from a physicist's point of view, but you might also want to resubmit the question with my answer attached and see if you can get further input from a biologist.

First, let's consider how long the planet could support large land animals like ourselves. Just think about the temperature difference between night and day and it should be pretty clear that the atmosphere (at least the troposphere, where we live) cools quite rapidly by radiation. It should only be a matter of days before the surface temperature drops below freezing everywhere on the planet. In, fact in six months to a year, the temperature should drop to less than 150 Kelvin, half its current value. I would not expect any biological activity to remain at this temperature. However, there may be organisms which could survive in a suspended state if they were to freeze before they starved. That's something a biologist would have to comment on. So I would say that an upper bound for the survival of large land animals would be less than six months, just based on temperature. However, it should be much less than this since the food chain, which starts with sunlight (which plants use), would break down almost immediately.

What would happen with the oceans? Well, there's a tremendous amount of latent heat in the oceans, which would help to warm the atmosphere. However, once the surface of the ocean began to freeze, it would become more and more insulated by the cover of ice. Thus, it appears that the transfer of heat from the ocean to the atmosphere could be significant only in the early stages of the cooling. However, the insulating effect of the ice would allow the oceans to stay above freezing for quite a while, though once again, the food chain would break down radidly, and the supply of oxygen would be cut off.

Now, there is another energy source which is significant - geothermal heat. There are organisms which live on the seafloor near geothermal vents - fissures from which superheated water laden with various gases and nutrients are expelled. The question is - are these organisms dependent only on the nutrients and heat that they recieve from the vents, or are they connected to the rest of the food chain? There are many more qualified to answer this than I. I wouldn't be surprised if they were dependent on the oxygen generated by photosynthesis, and thus vulnerable.

I have also seen mention of organisms found in core samples from quite deep in the Earth's crust which may depend only on geothermal heat, but I don't know how credible this is.

Of course, it's possible that technology would allow a very small population of humans to survive, just as they might on a lunar base. However, if such a facility does not already exist, it is doubtful whether one could be constructed before the atmosphere froze out onto the ground, especially since it would probably take more people to construct it than it would be able to support. It might be possible to modify a bomb shelter to serve such a purpose, but it would need to be able to generate breathable air, and there would need to be a way of obtaining fuel. With no solar energy, you would need to use nuclear energy, fossil fuel, or geothernal energy.

In short, we wouldn't last long, but there may be organisms which could survive indefinitely, either by freezing before they starve, or because they don't depend on solar energy at all. I would definitely recommend submitting this to a biologist for further comment.


TOPICS: Unclassified
KEYWORDS: climatechange; solarenergy; sun
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To: RatSlayer

"At that point the core, which will be mostly helium at that point,"

Great, so not only do we get fried, but we'll be talking in really high voices, too.


61 posted on 12/11/2004 11:51:00 AM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido

From my years in Wisconsin I still know how to operate a snowthrower - so, I reckon I'll be OK.


62 posted on 12/11/2004 11:51:51 AM PST by Wally_Kalbacken
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To: clyde asbury

Dunno. The press is notoriously lax about followup of science questions.


63 posted on 12/11/2004 11:52:14 AM PST by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: SamAdams76

I'm not exactly sure what would happen if the sun went out, but I'm pretty darned certain it would somehow be Bush's fault.


64 posted on 12/11/2004 11:53:23 AM PST by The Duke
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To: SamAdams76
What If The Sun Was To Go Out?

We'd all don red dresses and curly red wigs and start singing our lungs out.

65 posted on 12/11/2004 11:53:23 AM PST by SilentServiceCPOWife (In the smiling twilight of the new political morning, the unwashed told their betters to shove it.)
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To: Dog Gone

"A perpetual pendulum of swinging prisoners..."

You gotta admit, it would be one hell of a bunjee ride. So long as you don't meet someone midway coming from the opposite side.

Someone else thought of selling "hole fares" across the planet, since the trip would only be 18 minutes or so.


66 posted on 12/11/2004 11:54:08 AM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: SamAdams76

"Women and Minorities Hardest Hit"


67 posted on 12/11/2004 11:57:46 AM PST by Pete'sWife (Dirt is for racing... asphalt is for getting there.)
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To: BullDog108
While they're at it: "What happens if it starts raining green M&Ms tomorrow?"

A lot of people are going to get very fat.

68 posted on 12/11/2004 11:57:51 AM PST by raybbr
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To: SamAdams76

We would all look like "Golem" in Lord of the Rings!!!!


69 posted on 12/11/2004 11:58:22 AM PST by LtKerst (Lt Kerst)
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To: RightWhale
What If The Sun Was To Go Out? isn't an urgent question. But it's also not as simple as some here are saying. Astronomy 101 says red giant earth sizzle, end of story.

[Ahem.]

I wonder if these experts can tell us the solution to the solar neutrino problem.
70 posted on 12/11/2004 11:59:35 AM PST by clyde asbury (I'm Not Being Rude. You're Just Insignificant.)
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To: Larry Lucido
As I recall, they learned to keep them all in one big group instead of letting them continue doing head-on collisions.

It was kind of a neat concept as long as you ignored all the practical considerations.

71 posted on 12/11/2004 11:59:59 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Rebelbase
Iceland.?

Hmmm, Iceland or Hawaii? Iceland or Hawaii?...

Or, Wyoming, among other, closer, places.

72 posted on 12/11/2004 12:00:31 PM PST by Calvin Locke
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To: Larry Lucido
Like my question: What if you cored the earth from pole to pole, then jumped in the hole - what would happen?

I've thought of that too. I think you would be in a perpetual fall. As you passed the core, your rate of fall would begin to decrease as you would then be "falling up". You should come to a complete and brief stop just under the surface on the other side of the earth and then you'd begin to fall down again, reversing the process endlessly.

73 posted on 12/11/2004 12:01:43 PM PST by SamAdams76 (No intolerant liberal is going to take my Christmas away from me)
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To: SamAdams76
The short answer to your question is that no one knows the answer

Evidently this author has not gotten word from the DNC and the residents in the "Blue" portions of this country. I have it from sources that the Sun went out Nov. 2nd 2004?

74 posted on 12/11/2004 12:02:01 PM PST by jedi150
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To: BullDog108
What happens if it starts raining green M&Ms tomorrow

If what I have heard from grade school is true there will be a population explosion.

75 posted on 12/11/2004 12:02:50 PM PST by carlr
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To: SamAdams76
This would be everyman in a short period of time:


76 posted on 12/11/2004 12:05:57 PM PST by Lockbar (March toward the sound of the guns.)
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To: mhx
My descendants are going to be out on Europa by the time that happens. Soaking up some pleasant (albeit red) summertime rays.

Probably a heck of a lot further out than that. In another 4 billion, or so, years we'll probably be populating a large percentage of the galaxy. By that time one star going through it's death throws won't kill us off. Of course ... by that time we might find a way to rejuvenate good ol' Sol and keep him burning for a heck of a lot longer.

On the other hand, by that time we probably won't care too much about physical stars and planets. We'll have engineered ourselves way beyond that stage of existence LONG before then.

Heck, this thread needs an Art Bell Ping.
77 posted on 12/11/2004 12:06:54 PM PST by TexasGreg ("Democrats Piss Me Off")
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To: SamAdams76

>>What If The Sun Was To Go Out?

It would be Bushes fault.


78 posted on 12/11/2004 12:12:26 PM PST by struggle ((The struggle continues))
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To: SamAdams76
You should come to a complete and brief stop just under the surface on the other side of the earth and then you'd begin to fall down again, reversing the process endlessly.

Isn't that ignoring air resistance in the tunnel? I would think it would slow you down so that some of the energy caused by the first fall in would have been dissipated by friction, so you'd be like a pendulum that had no mechanism to keep it going, and each swing through the center would be shorter and shorter, till you stopped in the middle.

Of course, you'd burn up there if they didn't figure out the heat problem. Or, on your first plunge into the tunnel, you'd crash into the others whose pendulum had stopped. Science fiction speculation sure is fun, isn't it? I used to have all kinds of "intellectual discussions" with it back in high school, when my geeky buddies and I got together outside of electronics class!

79 posted on 12/11/2004 12:12:35 PM PST by hunter112 (Total victory, both in the USA and the Middle East!)
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To: SamAdams76
You should come to a complete and brief stop just under the surface on the other side of the earth and then you'd begin to fall down again, reversing the process endlessly.

After donning your special suit to allow you to withstand the temperatures, pressure, etc., you would gradually slow down as you neared the center of the earth and then stop completely and "float" in the core as the mass of the earth/gravity would be pulling you somewhat equally from all directions.

80 posted on 12/11/2004 12:12:40 PM PST by Drew68
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