Posted on 01/26/2005 10:37:01 PM PST by neverdem
The Shroud of Turin is much older than the medieval date that modern science has affixed to it and could be old enough to have been the burial wrapping of Jesus, a new analysis concludes.
Since 1988, most scientists have confidently concluded that it was the work of a medieval artist, because carbon dating had placed the production of the fabric between 1260 and 1390.
In an article this month in the journal Thermochimica Acta, Dr. Raymond N. Rogers, a chemist retired from Los Alamos National Laboratory, said the carbon dating test was valid but that the piece tested was about the size of a postage stamp and came from a portion that had been patched.
"We're darned sure that part of the cloth was not original Shroud of Turin cloth," he said, adding that threads from the main part of the shroud were pure linen, which is spun from flax.
The threads in the patched portion contained cotton as well and had been dyed to match.
From other tests, he estimated that the shroud was between 1,300 and 3,000 years old.
It's very possible I goofed. From what I have found, It appears the Great Flood happened approximately around 8000BC? I also found the great Pyramids to be built approximately 3000BC. I'm trying to relate Biblical happenings to historical facts. Thank you for your input.
bookmark
Grow a brain.
This is from an article I read yesterday.
Excerpt
A research paper published in Thermochimica Acta suggests the shroud is between 1,300 and 3,000 years old.The author dismisses 1988 carbon-14 dating tests which concluded that the linen sheet was a medieval fake.
The shroud, which bears the faint image of a blood-covered man, is believed by some to be Christ's burial cloth.
Raymond Rogers says his research and chemical tests show the material used in the 1988 radiocarbon analysis was cut from a medieval patch woven into the shroud to repair fire damage.
This was responsible for an invalid date being assigned to the original shroud cloth, he argues.
"The radiocarbon sample has completely different chemical properties than the main part of the shroud relic," said Mr Rogers, who is a retired chemist from Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, US.
"The sample tested was dyed using technology that began to appear in Italy about the time the crusaders' last bastion fell to the Mameluke Turks in AD 1291," said Mr Rogers.
"The radiocarbon sample cannot be older than about AD 1290, agreeing with the age determined in 1988. However, the shroud itself is actually much older."
Some now hope the Vatican will give approval for samples of the shroud to be re-tested.
But, says Mr Minor, "the church is very hesitant, very reluctant for that to be done, because they've been given so many conflicting opinions". LINK
In other words, there is no conclusive evidence that the shroud is a fake, thus I would trust the opinions of those with professional expertise in this area far more than our armchair freeper experts.
I guess you must know all...
And as to your final argument, "If we dismiss it and say it isn't possible, aren't we putting limitations on God?" that's just silly. You're telling me I better believe in anything, because with God, all things are possible? I don't believe in pigs that fly or poop that smells like daffodils, either. I don't see a lot of outcry for me to believe in that fantastic stuff because I can't limit God. If God was going to be peeved that I don't buy the shroud b.s., I'm sure He'd have provided more scientific backup and biblical guidance to make me believe in a holy hanky. He didn't.
I never said such a thing. I mearly said that it is possible that this could be the burial cloth of Jesus. Your absolute anger and ridicule is just more than puzzling, it's sad.
What has made you so angry of something that bring about such joy to others?
I am puzzled by your comments.
If there are those who don't, so be it. But why would those who don't believe want to ridicule something others in the Christian faith see as sacred?
Bumpus ad summum
Perhaps, we reflect our shortcomings through comments like that - at the end, it says more about us than about the subject in question... who knows.
You might make the same arguments about faith healing or that stupid show where the con man "speaks to the dead." They both bring such joy to others. Except they're frauds, and some people do rely on these things as important. There will be religious people who are fooled by the fake shroud who will fly to see it and waste their money.
And you didn't "mearly" say "that it is possible that this could be the burial cloth of Jesus." You said that "If we dismiss it and say it isn't possible, aren't we putting limitations on God?" You tried to tell me that denying the possibility that this is Jesus's burial shroud is denying God. Your attempt to twist the words otherwise is silly, as is your attempt to make me out to be some person out to expose you to ridicule. You're the one who's selling the faux Shroud. You've exposed yourself.
But I am angry, because there are people out there whose faith in Jesus and God makes them want to believe in something and see further proof of God's love for them. These are people who need help with their faith, not to be falsely proselytized to. They shouldn't be conned into believing some fraud hanky will provide proof of God's love simply because some huckster wants to sell books, when God's love is already written down for us, and He doesn't need a hanky to demonstrate it.
I have no idea if we agree or not. Show me where I contradicted myself in an earlier post. What I suspect is that you didn't read carefully enough.
Itis tantamount to idle worship. That is why I care.
I'm sorry, I think the Church already has provided you folks that opportunity to refute doubters, and unfortunately for your little theory, the Shroud was carbon-dated far after Christ's death. If you want to tell me that because this schmuck has posited a possible way around the test results, the Shroud is now Christ's wipey, I have proof for you that the Earth is flat. See, it's possible that all the scientific measurements saying the Earth is round were thrown off by threats from the Illuminati. I have a crackpot theory, so PRESTO!, now the Earth is flat again in the face of all scientific evidence!
Please provide your irrefutable proof that your eyesight isn't blocked by your colon right here---->
"there is no conclusive evidence that the shroud is a fake"
You seem to have listened to the OJ trial. The same folks that said "there was no conclusive evidence to convict Scott Peterson" and OJ might buy that there is no conclusive evidence that the shroud is a fake--but carbon dating IS CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE.
Stating that the shroud is believable because they're putting forward this new theory that "aw, gee, maybe they carbon dated the wrong threads," that's right up there with deciding that it's PROVEN the sun revolves around the earth because "aw, gee, maybe they were using the wrong slide rule when they did the calculations for the orbit of the sun and moon."
There needs to be more than legend to prove it's Jesus's burial cloth. There needs to be provenance, and the carbon dating removes that possibility. If legend is all we need to prove something in the face of tangible evidence to the contrary, I got a fire-breathing dragon in my backyard I want to sell you. Sure, I know, no animal exists on the planet that breathes fire according to every taxonomist and biologist, but gee, I read about them in some storybooks, so they must be real.
Where did I say that? You shouldn't have a problem to link to it. I said there is no conclusive evidence that it's a fake or that it is real. I'm waiting for more evidence, and I'm relying not on your opinion but on the experts. Why don't you relax a little, and stop hyperventilating?
I got a fire-breathing dragon in my backyard I want to sell you.
No thanks. I wouldn't buy a thing from you. You talk too much, lol.
Where did I SAY you said that, fluffy?
I took your words from your post--"there is no conclusive evidence that the shroud is a fake"--and explained to you that there is conclusive evidence the shroud is a fake. Its carbon dating proves it's a fraud.
You want to pretend that the jury's still out, more power to you. If you decide the moon's not made of green cheese, or water is wet, let me know so I can alert the media.
You're as incoherent as dumb. Don't waste my time, anymore.
If you don't like eating your words, don't post to me. You're the one who wasted my time first, oh great fence-sitter. Have you determined if the sky is blue or round wheels work better yet, or is that still up in the air, too?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.