The Search for Moderate Islam: Part I

Frontpagemag.com ^ | January 28, 2005 | Lawrence Auster

[Dark Skies]

You know I agree...a moderate Muslim is really an apostate or lapsed Muslim. Sooner or later someone is going to come along and return them to their true religion.

[blackie]

[TapTheSource]

"Islamism is a 20th century phenominon. Islamist and Maxist Arab groups did recieve aid in terrorist activities from the USSR."

And they are still receiving aid from the USSR (err...Russia).

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1331406/posts

[TapTheSource]

"Putin pledged joint business ventures, including projects focusing on the development of oil and gas resources in Syria, and agreed to write-off 73 percent of Syria's $13.4 billion debt to Russia."

How's that for giving aid and comfort to our enemy Syria???

[rmlew]

Strictly sepaking, Syria is Ba'athist. However, Putin's actions are quite unfriendly. Not only is Syrian debt being written-off, by Russia is selling Syria weapons.

[TapTheSource]

Ooops...last post was meant for you...

---

More on Russia's long-range strategy in the Middle East.

http://www.anti-communistanalyst.com/Russiasgame.htm

[TapTheSource]

"Putin's actions are quite unfriendly. Not only is Syrian debt being written-off, by Russia is selling Syria weapons."

Let's face it, Russia is still supporting virtually all of her "former" allies (read: our enemies)...and she is supporting some new ones as well (i.e. Venezuela, etc).

[joesnuffy]

Jonah Goldberg

http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com |
Earlier this month the Washington Post's Richard Cohen
wrote, "As the late Susan Sontag bravely pointed out
in a New Yorker essay published right after Sept. 11,
2001, those terrorist attacks were in response to
American policy in the Middle East - not, as Bush has
said repeatedly since, because Islamic radicals cannot
abide freedom."


And Patrick Buchanan - allegedly on the other side of
the ideological spectrum - has declared countless
times, "Osama bin Laden and his crew up there in Tora
Bora did not stumble on a copy of the Bill of Rights
and go berserk that Americans are free in the United
States."


In short, the notion that America is in a war for
freedom over tyranny has elicited bipartisan
snickering and guffawing. In the wake of Bush's
inaugural, the chorus of complaints intensified. And
understandably so, given the fact that his address was
the most forceful articulation of his "freedom" vision
to date.


But before the cackles could reach their crescendo,
the naysayers hit an inconvenient snag. Musab
al-Zarqawi, the "prince" of Al-Qaida in Iraq,
appointed by Osama Bin Laden, came out and agreed with
President Bush. "We have declared a fierce war on this
evil principle of democracy and those who follow this
wrong ideology," Zarqawi declared in a statement.
"Democracy is also based on the right to choose your
religion," he said, and that is "against the rule of
God."


You can almost hear Cohen and Buchanan snapping their
pencils "Darn it, stop stepping on my message!"


Zarqawi's declaration came after a statement by Bin
Laden himself in December, in which he pronounced:
"Anyone who participates in these elections . has
committed apostasy against Allah."


Now, this doesn't mean that Bin Laden and Zarqawi
aren't motivated by less lofty - or merely different -
principles than an Islamist rejection of democracy. To
be sure, Bin Laden's initial grievances included
America's relationship to Saudi Arabia, Israel and all
the usual complaints. But underlying these gripes was
an ideology - and remains an ideology - opposed to
freedom and democracy. The intellectual founder of
Islamism, Sayyid Qutb, wrote in 1957: "In the world
there is only one party, the party of Allah; all of
the others are parties of Satan and rebellion. Those
who believe fight in the cause of Allah; and those who
disbelieve fight in the cause of the rebellion."


If you peruse the incalculably valuable website
Memri.org - which translates articles, manifestoes and
broadcasts from across the Arabic world - you will
find countless declarations from Islamist groups
declaring that democracy is an "atheist" heresy that
replaces the law of God with the law of man, and that
anyone who advocates elections is ipso facto an
infidel. In his December statement, Osama Bin Laden
"ruled" - as if he has any right to do so - that Iraqi
forces who aid the upcoming elections "are apostates
who should not be prayed over upon their deaths. They
cannot inherit, and they must not be inherited from
[after their deaths]. Their wives are divorced from
them, and they must not be buried in Muslim
cemeteries."


Sure sounds like someone hates democracy to me.


Those who pooh-pooh the notion that our enemies hate
freedom believe that such ideologically totalitarian
movements can exist within their own borders
indefinitely. All we have to do is treat them like a
hornet's nest and don't upset them (no matter that
they topple their own governments and seek ever more
conquests).


Unfortunately, we live in a world where a bunch of
antidemocratic and homicidal zealots can make life
dangerous for all of us. "Not our fight," the
president's critics seem to say. But if they're wrong,
thousands or millions could die as a result. And, like
it or not, that fight is in Iraq right now.


For the first time in a hard-fought, bloody, and at
times metaphysically depressing couple of years, it
looks like there's cause for optimism there.
Indications are that turnout will be high in Sunday's
elections. Sunni leaders now say they want a role in
constructing the new constitution. Zarqawi's prized
bomb-making lieutenant was captured, and interim Prime
Minister Allawi is gaining support.


But the best news from Iraq in a while is Zarqawi's
forceful and forthright rejection of democracy and
freedom as a principle. He doesn't want a more
"authentic" democracy, he wants to kill it. This alone
gives Iraqis, particularly the Sunnis he claims to
represent, a stark choice: Accept the painful but
promising path of elections, or side with the man most
responsible for the car-bombings of mosques and
markets, who would replace Saddam's nationalist
totalitarianism for a new religious one ruled by
foreigners like him and Bin Laden. Given that choice,
who can doubt the Iraqis will vote with their hearts
and ballots for what's behind Curtain No. 1.

[Fred Nerks]

"Moderate muslims around the world joined hardliners in rejoicing and cheering."

I have always been inclined to take what Pipes writes about moderate islam with a huge dose of salt...but after recent events in Australia, when the islamic community itself is making moves to remove their imported mufti from a position of power in the largest mosque in this country,
I am beginning to wonder...was the 'rejoicing and cheering' a 'natural' reaction from the majority of the followers of islam, or was it cleric-driven?

I can't forget Arthur Koestler's story. He lived in Israel during the 1920's. He wrote that from Monday through Friday, the Jewish tenants and the Arab landlord would be friends, like brothers. On Friday night, after prayer at the mosque, the same Arab landlord would come home, take out his kitchen knives and slay the entire Jewish family.

Daniel Pipes is perhaps trying to help us find the kernel of humanity within, something we all share, and could just be the greatest enemy the evil clerics have.

We speak of 'freedom of religion' as a right guaranteed by our constitutions, American and Australian, yet neither are able to make the same guarantee to muslim immigrants, not while imported Saudi wahhabi clerics apply sharia via the mosques.

[knighthawk]

If bin Laden's and other jihadists' understanding of jihad "is in keeping with its usage through 14 centuries of Islamic history," as Pipes indicates, then jihadism, i.e., militant Islam, has in fact been a normative component of Islam for 1,400 years. Therefore it cannot be true that militant Islam is a very recent, minority movement.

Islam-list

If people want on or off this list, please let me know.

[Dark Skies]

I remember reading about an area in Israel where the Muslim population and the Jewish residents got along well (in fact, strong friendships were built). However, I think that is quite the exception to the rule.

I have no doubt that people, without clerical (Muslim) interference, are capable of crossing religious lines, particular when those lines are relaxed. But I am suspicious. Is something in Islam that makes it vulnerable to clerics (and others)...such that when "true believers" apply electricity, those ancient hatreds springs to attention.

I am certainly openminded but when a religion says "oh, worshiper of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me...come and kill him"...I have to suspect that there is a potential for trouble.

[Happy2BMe]

What was your former name on FR?

[Fred Nerks]

"Is there something in Islam that makes it vulnerable to clerics..."

Of course there is. It's called the koran and hadith. But you know that. Now, who is it that spends billions of petro-dollars on building mosques, on wahhabi influenced literature, on clerics sent throughout the world to 'interpret' the mohammadan creed to muslim immigrants in the West? Where do the clerics come from? Where are the 'Universities' at which they study?
Why are 'prayer leaders' (imams) not all of the same bent? Why do the Iranian immigrants in Australia for example, wish to practice a totally different form of islam?
Doesn't that suggest there is more than one aspect to this 'religion'?
Why do the Iranian mullah's need a military force made up of arabs who are foreigners, to keep the muslims in Iran prisoner in their own country?
Too many questions...there's an answer there, somewhere.

[Dark Skies]

Of course there is. It's called the koran and hadith.

I started rereading Shirer's "...Third Reich" again today for the fourth time (it has been at least seven years since last reading). I wanted to see if I noticed any new paralells between Islam and the rise of Hitler and Nazism, particularly in light of 9/11.

When I read it and Tolands bio of Hitler before 9/11, I remember a strong sense of the metaphysical. I am only 30-35 pages into it this time, but the same sense of the metaphysical is there but much stronger in light of recent history.

It would take much too much time to explain it all, even if I knew exactly what I felt. But that is what I am referring to (in addition to the Qur'an and Hadith). I am asking if there is a metaphysical quality to Islam that gives hardliners a key to the ignition of ancient Muslim hatred.

[He Rides A White Horse]

The Search for Moderate Islam

I'm betting on finding Atlantis first.

[CaptainAwesome2]

There is no moderate Islam. That includes the terrorists we are wasting our time with in Iraq.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

Islam = Evil cult

Moderate Islam = Moderate Evil Cult

Why do Societies insist on trying to understand Evil instead of just destroying it ?

Toying with madness will either destroy you or turn you i for one would rather destroy the madness than endure it !

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[broadsword]

Therefore it cannot be true that militant Islam is a very recent, minority movement.

Bloodthirsty Islam IS the norm, and the quiet (so-called "moderate") Muslims are the trojan horses for this worldwide march against human civilization.