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Gun nuts' have no real excuse(gun grabbing weenie barf alert 4 bags minimum)
dailycampus.com ^ | 2 1 05 | Robert Schiering

Posted on 02/02/2005 10:45:23 AM PST by freepatriot32

At first glance, the term "gun nut" would appear to be nothing more than an ad hominem against the more enthusiastic weapon owners of this country. However, as one reads the literature espoused by gun nut organizations, the reasoning behind this term becomes startlingly clear. Gun nuts are called as such because they are incontrovertibly insane.

The gun lobby has adopted the same attitude toward politics as Rush Limbaugh: "Don't confuse me with facts, I've got my mind made up!" Gun nuts are so obsessed with opposing gun control laws that no amount of factual evidence against their position will sway them. Some call this "sticking to your guns." I call it "deliberate stupidity."

The National Rifle Association (NRA) claims that a society that owns guns is a safe society. Throughout the pages of gun magazines are various ads which depict Joe Average wielding a hand cannon, defending his helpless family from a masked intruder who has invaded his home in the dead of night. Ignore for a minute that the probability of encountering a burglar dumb enough to enter your house while you are there is incredibly slim and look at the FBI's study on gun violence. In 1993, of 39,595 firearm-related deaths, only 251 were determined to be justifiable homicide. That is less than 1 percent of all firearm deaths for that year. Furthermore, studies in 1994 found that you are much more likely to be murdered by someone you know, not some masked boogey-man with an eye for your wife's jewelry. Suicides, homicides and accidental deaths far outnumber instances where someone has successfully used a firearm to defend themselves or their loved ones. Either these findings have not reached the NRA, or they are deliberately turning a blind eye to them.

Unrestricted ownership of weapons essentially follows the tenets of the classical theory of criminology. This theory is hardly modern, developing in the late 1700s through the works of Cesare Beccaria and Jeremy Bentham. The core ideas of classical theory are: the decision to commit crime is a rational cost-benefit evaluation and that crime can be prevented through administering certain, severe punishment. Gun nuts believe that if every citizen owned a weapon, potential criminals would be too afraid to commit crimes.

The right wing, not just the gun nuts, has become so enthralled by classical theory that they have completely ignored the mountains of evidence that contradict it. While America fairs better than its developed counterparts around the world in most areas of crime, it tops them all in the category of murder. While you stand a better chance of being robbed in Sydney, Australia than in Los Angeles you are 20 times as likely to be killed in L.A. A rational mugger would prefer to give up and flee should his activity lead to conflict (as murder comes with a much higher cost than mere robbery, while the benefit is relatively minute), but statistics point out that in the U.S., victims that put up a fight are typically killed. This is not rational behavior and all the guns in America haven't changed it.

When the chips are down in the debate on crime, a gun nut will always fall back on the Constitution. Gun nuts love to quote the Second Amendment, or at least they love to quote the second half. In its entirety, the Second Amendment reads, "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." This does not, in any way, clarify the issue of personal gun ownership. It is vague, leaving one to wonder whether or not gun ownership rights should be extended to the individual without mandatory enrollment in a "well organized militia." Historically, the Supreme Court has ruled that states have the right to enact gun control laws, as was determined by United States v. Cruikshank in 1876. The NRA has conveniently ignored the first half of the Second Amendment, typically printing only the second half. Former Chief Justice Warren Burger denounced the NRA's editing of the Second Amendment as a "fraud."

Owning an arsenal is not a "way of life," it is a mental disorder. It is an unjustifiable paranoia that leads to thousands of unjustified deaths every year. Let's put this in perspective. Annually, about 17,000 people die of illicit drug use (illegal), 0 people die of marijuana use (also illegal), 20,000 people die of sexual behaviors (not illegal, but frowned upon), while some 29,000 die in a firearm related incident, 1 percent of which result in a "bad guy" eating a lead sandwich.

I'm not suggesting that people stop owning weapons or that the NRA disband and start crusading for rights that don't kill anyone, like smoking pot for example. What I want is an end to the lies that the gun nuts want so badly to believe in. I want them to face the fact that they are much more likely to kill their wife and children than defend them. I want them to realize that the only crime wave in this country is in homicide, a crime inextricably linked with firearms. Perhaps when gun nuts stop living in Charlton Heston's movies they will pursue a safer, more reasonable route to gun ownership and use.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 4; academialist; alert; bags; bang; banglist; barf; donutwatch; excuse; grabbing; gun; have; heisntarmed; homocolumnist; idiot; ignoramus; liar; minimum; no; nuts; probablyfrench; propaganda; real; sarahbrady; students; weenie; wodlist
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To: retarmy

Yes.

Registration leads to eventual confiscation. NUMEROUS examples of this. (Ask NYC gun owners if you don't believe me.)


61 posted on 02/02/2005 11:34:56 AM PST by IGOTMINE (Please arm yourself.)
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To: paul51

She resisted with words. She told one of the muggers "What are you going to do, shoot me?" Muggers response, kapow.


62 posted on 02/02/2005 11:34:57 AM PST by Fee (Great powers never let minor allies dictate who, where and when they must fight.)
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To: freepatriot32
...the decision to commit crime is a rational cost-benefit evaluation...

Not for people who know right from wrong.

But morality is so un-PC for the tatoo-and-nipple-ring set..

63 posted on 02/02/2005 11:37:36 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help fund terrorism.)
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To: Dan from Michigan

Cool! Source and year?


64 posted on 02/02/2005 11:37:58 AM PST by MileHi
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Comment #65 Removed by Moderator

To: retarmy
Does anyone have a problem with registering their firearms and if so, why?

YEP! It's none of the governments damn biasness what I have.

I'm asking because one of the problems in police work is that when a firearm that has been used in a crime is recovered, the ownership trail is often non-existant.

Tough. I won't risk future confiscation just so some homicide cops job is marginally easier.

66 posted on 02/02/2005 11:43:24 AM PST by MileHi
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To: MileHi
I posted this thread on Glascow

The source was either the Michigan State Police or the FBI - 2003 for most, 2004 for my county.

67 posted on 02/02/2005 11:46:00 AM PST by Dan from Michigan ("Guilty! Guilty in the first degree....")
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To: MileHi

biasness = business


68 posted on 02/02/2005 11:46:30 AM PST by MileHi
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To: speed_addiction

Should you be telling us this?


69 posted on 02/02/2005 11:46:36 AM PST by stevio (Let Freedom Ring!)
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To: Dan from Michigan

Thanks, Dan.


70 posted on 02/02/2005 11:47:05 AM PST by MileHi
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To: retarmy
I am a multiple weapon owner and a former Public Safety Commissioner here in Florida. I have a question for everyone. Does anyone have a problem with registering their firearms and if so, why?

Yes.

1. It does not reduce crime. My state has registration. It also has several cities with very high crime rates. Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, Highland Park, and Inkster.

2. Registration leads on confiscation. It's happened in Chicago, DC, California, as well as overseas.

3. It's none of the government's business if I own a firearm.

4. Waste of my tax money.

71 posted on 02/02/2005 11:53:50 AM PST by Dan from Michigan ("Guilty! Guilty in the first degree....")
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To: retarmy

I notice that no one has responded to you yet. While I have no intention of getting into a debate on the forum, I'll answer your question. Yes, I object to gun registration. My objections are two-fold: historical and practical. Historically, registration has preceded virtually every seizure of guns/weapons in modern human history. Practically, the Constitution, to which I swore an oath to support and defend and on which I rely as a guarantee of many freedoms states, "...shall not be infringed." I think that's pretty clear.


72 posted on 02/02/2005 11:57:03 AM PST by ManHunter (You can run, but you'll only die tired...)
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To: freepatriot32
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
73 posted on 02/02/2005 12:02:28 PM PST by blues_guitarist (Black conservatives arise!)
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To: retarmy
I'm asking because one of the problems in police work is that when a firearm that has been used in a crime is recovered, the ownership trail is often non-existant. Yes, criminals buy stolen guns, but if a crime is committed in Florida with a firearm that was owned by a person in Vermont, knowing that connection will at least provide investigators another avenue of inquiry -even if the firearm was legally purchased and stolen from the customer.

Ignoring all the boilerplate canards underpinning your question, I can tell you for my part I just don't need that crime solved that bad.

74 posted on 02/02/2005 12:09:40 PM PST by papertyger (If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.)
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To: freepatriot32
Suicides, homicides and accidental deaths far outnumber instances where someone has successfully used a firearm to defend themselves or their loved ones. Either these findings have not reached the NRA, or they are deliberately turning a blind eye to them.

I doubt that anyone on the forum has enough time to correct all the lies and deliberate misrepresentations in that POS article, but the first outright lie that jumped out at me is the one quoted above. Professor Gary Kleck of Florida State University has made at least two exhaustive studies on the incidence of defensive firearms use by private citizens against criminal attack, and his research indicates a figure of around 2 million such incidents each year. The vast majority of those incidents do NOT result in firing the weapon, much less in death or injury to any involved party, and only a small percentage are even reported to LE agencies. The total annual number of all firearms related deaths, including both deliberate and accidental shootings, is well under 2% of the annual number of incidents in which firearms are used in self defense.

Kleck's data has been backed up by similar figures obtained by the research of a University of Chicago professor whose name escapes me at the moment, and those data were not hidden under a bushel.

I am quite sure this hoplophobic elitist knows the results of the research as well as we do. Therefore it isn't just ignorance on his part when he denies and/or misrepresents that data, it's deliberate lying. But that isn't anything unexpected from his sorry ilk, lying has been their normal tactic ever since the antis began their effort to abolish our Constitutional right to arms almost a century ago.

75 posted on 02/02/2005 12:22:01 PM PST by epow
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To: Dan from Michigan
Ditto. +1. "What he said..."

Ect...

The Government does not need to know how many screwdrivers I have. How many pairs of underwear. How many pairs of shoes. Nor do they need to know how much of any other type of property I have.

76 posted on 02/02/2005 12:29:59 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: freepatriot32

"only 251 were determined to be justifiable homicide"

Really? I'd like to know where he got that number.


77 posted on 02/02/2005 12:32:33 PM PST by shellshocked
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To: freepatriot32

To be a stupid liberal one must believe that there are so many killings by gun that we should ban guns, but if you want a gun to protect yourself from those doing the killing then you must be paranoid.


78 posted on 02/02/2005 12:33:34 PM PST by shellshocked
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To: freepatriot32
...but statistics point out that in the U.S., victims that put up a fight are typically killed

Another Kellerman fanatic.
/snicker>

If the weapon in question is a handgun, wresting control of it is much more difficult than it would be for the attacker to grasp a longer-barreled weapon, such as a shotgun or rifle. The simplest of logic dictates that dead men don't snatch guns away, and that relatively smart men who don't want to become dead men, shouldn't try.

I want them to face the fact that they are much more likely to kill their wife and children than defend them. I want them to realize that the only crime wave in this country is in homicide, a crime inextricably linked with firearms.

At the original Million Mom March, there was a speaker quoted as saying; "If someone comes at you brandishing and threatning your life with a knife or gun, say to them, "I know you're upset; we all want to be valued as human beings."

If someone is breaking into my house when he knows the probability that it is occupied with people, I can be relatively certain that my life and my children's lives are in immediate danger. Once my safety is in danger, said attacker has already tried and judged himself; if he forces me to act as executioner then so be it. His death would be on his head, not mine.
79 posted on 02/02/2005 12:37:35 PM PST by Sweet_Sunflower29 (.... what if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?!?)
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To: speed_addiction
Some tools of mine came out missing ... I would go after them.
LOL! I LOVE IT!
80 posted on 02/02/2005 12:43:39 PM PST by GrandEagle
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