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I remember being taught either four or five 'F's. It was part of the endocrinological, i.e. hormonal, explanation for the lack of osteoporosis in obese women and Type II Diabetes.

female
fat
forty
fertile (multiparity)
flatulent, OMG it's global warming! /sarcasm

1 posted on 03/08/2005 12:43:01 AM PST by neverdem
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To: El Gato; JudyB1938; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; LadyDoc; jb6; tiamat; PGalt; ..

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2 posted on 03/08/2005 1:03:10 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
My husband,mother,mother-in-law and myself have all commented on this very thing(seeming early development in girls) all in the past month. I have a niece, a very lovely young woman who brought several friends to a family function this past summer. Those young ladies were as developed as any 20 year old I've ever been or seen. They were between 11 and 13. My first thought upon seeing them was, What is Jen doing with such older girls, when in the knowing she was older than all of them!

I've also noticed this during the warmer months, especially at the park, zoo, or movies these young girls are quite developed. And don't mind showing it either.

I had heard, after commenting to my mother and husband's mother, that there was some suspicion about it being caused by growth hormones in the food supply.

You know the thing is, that a lot of these girls are quite thin, except for their breasts, hips etc.

3 posted on 03/08/2005 1:10:19 AM PST by mother22wife21 ("Mama, Mama, wake up , God has brought us another day present.")
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To: neverdem

The five Fs also are the profile of the average gallbladder patient:

Fair
Fat
Female
Forty
Fertile


5 posted on 03/08/2005 1:20:22 AM PST by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: neverdem

hmm, wonder what their cancer rates will be?? After a lifetime of hormone therapy in the milk??


8 posted on 03/08/2005 1:31:34 AM PST by television is just wrong (Our sympathies are misguided with illegal aliens...)
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To: neverdem

if this is true..that might explain why i hit it around 9,scary....(of course im about to get flamed) but i drink a TON of milk i make sure i at least get 3-4 glasses a day


9 posted on 03/08/2005 1:32:16 AM PST by MetalHeadConservative35 (To the Wayne,Mi, Pop Scene...Be afriad...Be VERY afraid)
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To: neverdem

Another illegal alien was convicted of a statuatory rape this week here in Phoenix. His crime involved inpregnating a nine year old who eventually gave birth.

The illegal alien watchers are aghast at this inasmuch as he will probably be deported to Mexico now. The child? The newly born child is an American Citizen. There has been no mention of Citizenship of the Child who gave birth for whom we deeply feel sorry.


14 posted on 03/08/2005 2:04:28 AM PST by svxdave (Life is too short to wear a fake Rolex.)
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To: neverdem
I have to wonder. My young son is far taller than I was at his age and is showing signs that I would have expected some 3-4 years out from now. He is YEARS from being a teen and we are already seeing signs of things I'd expect then. Who knows, maybe it's just him, it's not like I've had experience from the parent side before.
17 posted on 03/08/2005 2:45:15 AM PST by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: neverdem

Are you sure that isn't the profile of a woman Likely to suffer from gallbladder problems?


19 posted on 03/08/2005 2:51:20 AM PST by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))
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To: neverdem
Instead, if girls are maturing sooner, a notion some scientists still dispute...

They must be awfully young scientists as there is simply no comparision to the size and ah, fullness, of early teen girls now compared to 50 years ago, but I think that boys also are maturing earlier. I agree with the other posts that there were almost no fat kids way back then, and few fat people in general, for that matter.

24 posted on 03/08/2005 3:53:13 AM PST by Northern Alliance
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To: neverdem

I recall reading an article years ago about this same thing happening in Puerto Rico, only the source of the hormones was blamed on chicken meat raised in industrial growhouses, not milk.


26 posted on 03/08/2005 4:09:22 AM PST by Rebelbase (Who is General Chat?)
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To: neverdem

I thought this was debunked years ago and the replacement theory was EARLY SEXUAL activity brought on early puberty.


27 posted on 03/08/2005 4:12:18 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: neverdem
When I was a kid in the '50's and '60's there were about a hundred kids my age in my school. Maybe 5 were chubby or better (fatter). I don't know but that bigger families had something to do with it---folks couldn't often afford to overfeed anyone. Did we exercise more? Not more than kids do in the town where I now live. Kids here get plenty of exercise, and yet I'd say almost half of them are overweight. The mothers, more than half of them are bloated.

In the interests of full disclosure, my 11-yr-old and I are svelte. :)

30 posted on 03/08/2005 7:12:13 AM PST by Graymatter
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To: neverdem

If milk is related to early-onset puberty, it is because it provides excellent NUTRITION. Bovine hormones don't work that way on people, but great nutrition does.


32 posted on 03/08/2005 7:52:59 AM PST by Petronski (Zebras: Free Range Bar Codes of the Serengeti)
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To: neverdem
suggesting that many girls were developing breasts and pubic hair between 9 and 10, roughly a year early.

Not good. We don't need 10 year olds having babies.

34 posted on 03/08/2005 7:57:16 AM PST by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: neverdem
Nobody ever mentions the elephant in the middle of the living room:

Birth control may be harming state's salmon

Synthetic estrogen in water seems to affect reproduction

Wednesday, June 4, 2003

By LISA STIFFLER
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

Birth-control pills can curb the reproduction of more than just the women taking them. Western Washington scientists have found that synthetic estrogen -- a common ingredient in oral contraceptives -- can drastically reduce the fertility of male rainbow trout.

The man-made compounds are showing up in waterways around the nation -- pumped into rivers, lakes and Puget Sound with water from sewage-treatment plants.

And they're being found at levels that can harm fish, possibly even this region's struggling salmon populations.

"It is disturbing in the extreme," said Kaitlin Lovell, salmon-policy coordinator for Trout Unlimited in Portland.

The research by scientists at the Battelle Marine Sciences Laboratory in Sequim is unique for its focus on trout, which is related to salmon, and for looking at reproductive effects on adult fish rather than juveniles.

How fish are affected by such chemicals in the wild remains unclear. "It's something we're concerned about," said Irvin Schultz, a senior research scientist at the lab.

In the experiment, adult trout in caged pens were exposed to ethynylestradiol, a synthetic estrogen. After two months of exposure, the fish were spawned with a healthy female. Researchers discovered that the exposed trout were half as fertile as fish kept in clean water.

The research by the government-funded lab is outlined in this month's issue of the journal Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry.

The findings are likely to fuel concerns about the environmental effects of chemicals that aren't being filtered out by sewage plants, including pharmaceuticals and pesticides that can mimic hormones.

In frogs, river otters and fish, scientists are "finding the presence of female hormones making the male species less male," said Doug Myers, wetlands and habitat specialist for the Puget Sound Action Team, the government agency coordinating restoration of the Sound.

There are no standards for how much synthetic estrogen and other hormones can be released in sewage and wastewater, and treatment plants generally do not monitor for it.

The Environmental Protection Agency is studying which of these compounds have harmful effects. Then the next step will be testing for their presence in waste water. New regulations could follow.

Although trout don't have the ability to rid themselves of the synthetic hormones, Schultz doesn't think it poses a serious threat to people eating the fish because the levels in the environment are low.

There are some concerns about wastewater that is being recycled back into the environment, particularly in desert areas, where it might mix with groundwater that could be used for drinking. An official with King County said there is little cause for concern about human risks locally.

New sewage-treatment facilities are looking into special membranes that will help pull some of these contaminants out, said John Smyth, an official with King County's technology-assessment program. It's currently being considered for the planned Brightwater treatment plant that will serve King and Snohomish counties.

"Agencies like us all over the country are trying to figure out ways to tackle this thing," Smyth said.

The researchers in Sequim tested the effects of synthetic estrogen at three different levels. The scientists were surprised that even the lowest level -- 80 times lower than levels measured in the wild -- had an effect on fertility.

The scientists would like to do more tests to identify the smallest concentrations that can harm fish.

They were unable to figure out how the estrogen was causing the reduction in fertility. It appears not to affect the swimming ability of sperm.

With so many unanswered questions about what compounds are getting into the environment, their effects and how to get them out of the wastewater, environmentalists and scientists are concerned.

Said Trout Unlimited's Lovell, "If anything, these problems are only going to get worse before they get better."

37 posted on 03/08/2005 8:43:18 AM PST by St. Johann Tetzel (Rule One! No Poofters!)
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To: neverdem
Could artificial growth hormones that had been widely used on cows since 1993 be speeding development in children?

A. No.

B. Non-primate growth hormones cannot dock with primate growth hormone receptors. Even if non-primate growth hormones were injected, they wouldn't have any effect on puberty or growth.

C. Primate growth hormones, though, can dock with non-primate growth hormone receptors, so calves could experience some effect from drinking sufficient quantities of human milk.
62 posted on 03/08/2005 11:39:00 AM PST by aruanan
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To: neverdem

Whatever it is, it's making their boobies bigger too. I see young ladies around town who are definitely more developed than what we had when I was a lad.


63 posted on 03/08/2005 11:43:17 AM PST by krb (ad hominem arguments are for stupid people)
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To: neverdem

My youngest is 17 and has lots of friends in high shcool. They still have their share of sleepovers at our house and my wife are involved in her school.

We both are quite aware that on average, the girls today have MUCH LARGER breasts than girls of our day (graduated in 1972).

It's not even close.

In high school I was the school photographer and there was this one girl we all called "mountains." I took her picture as a sample of "girls allowed to wear jeans in school" and cropped it just above her breasts. The paper cropped it below them before publishing (stupid teachers, what do they know). I still have the original and what we called "big" back then (and I mean REALLY big), was about what you would call average today.

Of course this is just anecdotal...


68 posted on 03/08/2005 11:52:21 AM PST by RobRoy (Child support and maintenence (alimony) are what we used to call indentured slavery)
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To: neverdem
I don't know about early puberty but it sure made me into the pillar of society that I am today.


73 posted on 03/08/2005 1:17:27 PM PST by GunnyHartman (Allah is allah outta virgins.)
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To: neverdem
To quote a co-worker "They must be puttin somethin off in that similac"

(It is high fructose sweetner that is causing it.)

80 posted on 03/08/2005 3:52:18 PM PST by Nov3 ("This is the best election night in history." --DNC chair Terry McAuliffe Nov. 2,2004 8p.m.)
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