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Treatments: Artery Cleanup Misses Its Mark
NY Times ^ | April 26, 2005 | ERIC NAGOURNEY

Posted on 04/29/2005 5:37:26 PM PDT by neverdem

VITAL SIGNS

Treatments: Artery Cleanup Misses Its Mark

A common bacterium has been found in the plaque that builds up in the coronary arteries, and infection with it may be linked to cardiovascular illness.

With that in mind, researchers suspected that giving heart patients an antibiotic to knock out the bacterium might reduce their risk of more cardiac problems.

But, the drugs do not seem to help at all, two new studies in The New England Journal of Medicine report.

"The testing of these agents for the treatment of advanced coronary heart disease appears to be at the end of the road," concluded an editorial in the journal by Dr. Jeffrey L. Anderson of the University of Utah School of Medicine.

Still, infection's role in heart disease remains very much an issue.

In one study, about 4,000 men and women were given either a once-a-week antibiotic or a placebo for a year, and then were followed up for an average of almost four years. All the participants had stable coronary artery disease after having various problems or procedures.

The study found that those who had been given the drug suffered the same number of new heart problems as those who did not.

The second study also looked at about 4,000 patients, but used a different drug for two weeks and then for 10 days a month over about two years. It, too, found no difference between those people given the drug and those given a placebo.

Dr. J. Thomas Grayston of the University of Washington and Dr. Christopher P. Cannon of Harvard led the studies.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Technical
KEYWORDS: health; heart; medicine; nanobacteria
Here are the abstracts.

Azithromycin for the Secondary Prevention of Coronary Events

Antibiotic Treatment of Chlamydia pneumoniae after Acute Coronary Syndrome

1 posted on 04/29/2005 5:37:27 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: El Gato; JudyB1938; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; LadyDoc; jb6; tiamat; PGalt; ..

FReepmail me if you want on or off my health and science ping list.


2 posted on 04/29/2005 5:38:40 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: theheebrewhammer

Thanks for the link.


5 posted on 04/29/2005 5:56:48 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: theheebrewhammer

nanobacteria freak me out.


6 posted on 04/29/2005 6:00:19 PM PDT by bitt ("There are troubling signs Bush doesn't care about winning a third term." (JH2))
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To: neverdem
"...were given either a once-a-week antibiotic or a placebo..."

Well.....maybe they should give the antibiotic MORE than ONCE a week???

7 posted on 04/29/2005 6:57:28 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Our military......the world's HEROES!)
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To: goodnesswins

Great link on nanobacteria - the calcium shells would seem to require more than antibiotics more than once a week.

I was always intrigued by bacteria link between ulcers and plaque - this seems to make sense.


8 posted on 04/29/2005 7:06:28 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: goodnesswins

And maybe they should give it prospectively to people who do not already have plaque build-up.


9 posted on 04/29/2005 7:08:03 PM PDT by From many - one.
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To: theheebrewhammer; bitt; All
I've heard about nanobacteria before, but not much. PubMed had 59 citations. The following link free full text articles.

Association Between Nanobacteria and Periodontal Disease

Attempted Isolation of Nanobacterium sp. Microorganisms from Upper Urinary Tract Stones

Inhibition of Nanobacteria by Antimicrobial Drugs as Measured by a Modified Microdilution Method

An alternative interpretation of nanobacteria-induced biomineralization

Nanobacteria and associated ‘elementary bodies’ in human disease and cancer

Nanobacteria: An alternative mechanism for pathogenic intra- and extracellular calcification and stone formation

10 posted on 04/29/2005 7:22:55 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: goodnesswins
Well.....maybe they should give the antibiotic MORE than ONCE a week???

I wonder how many folks became ill with yeast or some other fungus, especially in the other study.

11 posted on 04/29/2005 7:32:43 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: From many - one.; spanalot

Well....I'm taking minocycline 2x a day.....long term.....I'll let you know if it works....LOL (THIS is kind of interesting to me, as I've got some kind of inflammation problem, which MAY be Lyme Disease....the Rheum Docs want it to be Rheumatoid Arthritis....but, I'm fairly confident it is NOT.....I'm still trying to get it figured out.)


12 posted on 04/29/2005 7:33:56 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Our military......the world's HEROES!)
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To: neverdem

See Post 12.....I haven't had a problem YET....and it's been about 7 months.....


13 posted on 04/29/2005 7:35:33 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Our military......the world's HEROES!)
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To: neverdem

See Post 12.....I haven't had a problem YET....and it's been about 7 months.....


14 posted on 04/29/2005 7:35:39 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Our military......the world's HEROES!)
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To: goodnesswins

Elevated ANA but negative RA?


15 posted on 04/29/2005 7:38:55 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: Judith Anne

NO....don't think my ANA was even elevated much....but, I'd have to check for sure. How ya doin?


16 posted on 04/29/2005 7:43:38 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Our military......the world's HEROES!)
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To: spanalot
Much more on the topic of germs, heart disease and antibiotics here.
17 posted on 04/29/2005 7:44:16 PM PDT by The Radical Capitalist
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To: Judith Anne

NO....don't think my ANA was even elevated much....but, I'd have to check for sure. How ya doin?


18 posted on 04/29/2005 7:45:52 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Our military......the world's HEROES!)
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To: goodnesswins

Sorry for all the double posts....I'm having computer problems....OBVIOUSLY.


19 posted on 04/29/2005 7:48:52 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Our military......the world's HEROES!)
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To: goodnesswins

I started with an elevated ANA and negative RA, and after a year, positive RA.

I'm doing okay. I'm still using high-dose aspirin and staying away from the nightshade family, and taking myrrh capsules, and using 1-2 Ultram 50 per day.

And I'm able to be very active, physically. Occasionally I am REALLY tired for no reason, but other than that, I'm doing okay. My pain level is in the tolerable range. Hand joints swell and subside on a daily basis.


20 posted on 04/29/2005 7:49:30 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: neverdem

Freepers are amazing! ... Lots of reading just got added to my 'pile'. Many thanks.


21 posted on 04/29/2005 7:59:13 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Judith Anne

Glad to hear you're doing better.....my problems were never in my hands....all shoulders....hips....knees, and more....BUT, now, MUCH better. Is ANA the one where they talk about it being "speckled?" Seems to me, if that is so, mine was kind of inconclusive.

This stuff about inflammation is interesting, as that's how I feel....inflamed (esp behind knees.) I'm still doing aspirin, too 3-4 a day. Seems to help the most.


22 posted on 04/29/2005 7:59:30 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Our military......the world's HEROES!)
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To: goodnesswins

I don't think so...it's a ratio thing. Mine was pretty high.

Aspirin is, for me, a wonder drug. I take 8 a day, two in the form of Alka-seltzer early am and bedtime, then two with lunch and two with supper.

So far, no toxic effects. And I think the myrrh is helping. At least it's better than some of the other, more toxic new meds, or prednisone.


23 posted on 04/29/2005 8:11:52 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: neverdem

THIS from my favorite Doctor....in 2000...he wrote.....(You have to read it ALL)

NANOBACTERIA MAY NOT EXIST

Gabe Mirkin, M.D.

I reported earlier that Olavi Kajander of Finland claims that he has discovered a new kind of bacteria that are so small that many doctors believe that they do not exist (see report #G135). However, with each supporting paper, I have become increasingly impressed with his research showing the association of nanobacteria with kidney stones, so I have treated my patients with kidney stones with doxycycline to kill the nanobacteria.

So far there have been five studies from different authors supporting his work on nanobacteria. However, John Cisar of the National Institutes of Dental and Craniofacial Research in Bethesda, Maryland, found calcified shells in the saliva that looked just like the calcified shells that Dr. Kajander found and claimed were made by nanobacteria. He used a test called polymerase chain reaction to check the DNA sequence of the bacteria in the mouth and claims that the DNA sequences are of frequent contaminants in the mouth, and not from newly-found bacteria called nanobacteria.

However, Cisar did his tests on saliva and Dr. Kajander did his research on urine. I do not know whether nanobacteria really exist, but I believe that many people can prevent kidney stones by taking the antibiotic, doxycycline, whether it kills nanobacteria or not. This is what you see frequently. Every discovery in medicine is always met with disbelief and all great discoverers start out by being called quacks. We await further research to see if Dr. Kajander is a real prophet with a major discovery or he is a false prophet as Dr. Cisar of NIH claims. I'm putting my money on nanobacteria and Dr. Kajander.


24 posted on 04/29/2005 8:28:31 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Our military......the world's HEROES!)
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To: Judith Anne

Is myrrh for your stomach? Or something else? I use DGL (dglycerized licorice...when I need to....mostly if I eat something, the aspirin doesn't bother me.)


25 posted on 04/29/2005 8:30:48 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Our military......the world's HEROES!)
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To: goodnesswins

The myrrh is supposed to be helpful in a number of conditions, including RA.


26 posted on 04/29/2005 8:40:36 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: Judith Anne

One of my sons has RA. If he eats potatoes, tomatoes, or peppers, he suffers so bad the next day - sometimes immediately. I wonder how many people with rheumatoid arthritis know they are supposed to stay away from the nightshade family? He's had it for a few years now and just found out about nightshades a year or so ago.

I never heard of using myrrh. Is it in capsule form, tea, or what? And how much do you use?

He tried the white grapes and gin thing. The only time it did him any good was when he finally drank the gin. :0)

He WILL NOT take prescription medicines. He believes they effect the body in adverse conditions that may not show up until later. He was proven right recently over the recent flap about how the arthritis medicine was causing heart attacks and such. Plus he watched his grandmother weaken under steroids until she had no immunity left and died very young.

I think she just got so tired of living with such horrible pain that she finally gave up. What a strong woman she was. She was told she'd be in a wheel chair and never walk again when she came down with it in her 20's. Well, she couldn't. She had 4 boys to raise, and raise them she did!

One of my daughters is a doctor. She said that now she knows so much and despite the people she's watched with other diseases, she said my son's grandma was the bravest woman she ever knew.

So, my sympathy sure lies with my son in his pain and am proud of his fortitude. He's like his grandma.

Carrying that thought further, I am also proud of you and other FReepers who have this disease. You are troopers, too!


27 posted on 04/30/2005 11:04:32 AM PDT by JudyB1938 ("A paranoid schizophrenic is somebody who just found out what's going on." - Wm S. Burroughs, Jr.)
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To: JudyB1938

I am able to be active on my regimen of Aspirin, Myrrh, and 1 or 2 Ultram 50 per day.

By this, I mean very active. I have pain, but I've had arthritis for years, just recently it became RA, so I'm kind of used to it, or whatever...The biggest benefit is aspirin in divided doses totalling 2600 mg per day. That's not for everyone, but so far it isn't a problem for me. Two of the divided doses (650 mg each) are in the form of AlkaSeltzer, in the early am and at bedtime.

Myrrh is with breakfast and supper, along with two aspirin each meal.

Having a good day is my chief hobby, and like many rewarding hobbies, it takes work, and learning, and lots and lots of practice. Someday, I hope to be really good at it. ;-D


28 posted on 04/30/2005 3:18:40 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: goodnesswins

"Patient Heal Thyself"

My doctor started giving me the typical meds for a sudden emergence of gout.

I stopped all the usual suspects but still got that big toe ache.

It took me 3 years to finally realize that I was allergic to a combination of dairy and japanese cooking spices - I cut out the two and now no meds and I can have all the lobster, steak, beer wine, etc. But Brie and ginger together? Look out - i get the twinge immediately the next AM

Dr. still does not believe it.


29 posted on 04/30/2005 4:43:02 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: The Radical Capitalist

This looks much more predictive than HDL- LDL, etc


30 posted on 04/30/2005 4:46:39 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: Judith Anne
Love the Myrrh!

Hawthorn Berries, too.

They have natural anti-bio & are less expensive than drugs.

31 posted on 04/30/2005 8:35:10 PM PDT by norraad ("What light!">Blues Brothers)
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