Posted on 06/20/2005 6:21:19 PM PDT by CHARLITE
Is Oceania at war with The East again?
And we're dumping multi-millions down the rat hole in Iraq in some pipe dream that we're going to create a democratic utopia in the Middle East. All the while, China is arming to the teeth, stealing our weapons technology, and building an economy that we're funding.
Some of Bush's notions remind me of the overreach and hubris that helped bring down the British Empire.
We better start taking China as a serious threat. What really makes me mad is that our government knew that Clinton sold our super computers with all of our defense information in them to China, and none of them did a darn thing about it. You know he pocketed a lot of money for himself too.
China has to know that when they fire a nuke at Los Angeles that there will be a response. At least they won't have to worry about population control for a long time.
Why the hysteria? China has never been an aggressor with regard to territorial or ideological expansion. If treated in a non-hostile manner I suspect we have little to fear from them and may even benfit from closer contact as trading partners.
"Their first ballistic missile system is not expected to 2010"
Hugh, I'm not sure where you got that info but it is incorrect...they also have Sunburn supersonic cruise missiles from Russian that have the potential to sink carriers in the Straits. They are making serious attempts to downsize and focus on quality and technology. They have bought Su 30s and other aircraft that are on a par with all of our air inventory save the F-22 Raptor. They are buying the best ships the Russians can buy for a growing blue-water navy too.
In 10-15 years many see them challenging us in the Asian theater.
Have to apologize, I meant to say their first SLBM is not expected to 2010, I was having another conversation with someone on this subject and it was implied in my response they new I was talking about submarine launched missiles.
They do have land launched ballistic missiles the quantity and quality of which are open to debate.
As to the sunburn, they can only be launched by the Hangzhou
Type 956 destroyer which is what they have bought from Russia (it was their Sovremenny class destroyer). They only have 2 of them. They do plan to get another 2 and may get them by 2010. They only carry 8 sunburns. One Arleigh Burke destroyer has 96 VLS launch cells, capable of a wide variety of missiles.
As to the sunburn itself, it is not considered state of the art. It has also never been in combat so it has no record. As a former EW I can tell you it's nothing something that would scare me. Respect it yes, but let it intimidate me, no. For the sake of reference did you see the article posted here about 2 CIWS Phalanx guns brought to Iraq? Same gun as the USN uses for CIWS. It's there because it can hit mortars in flight.
As to the SU-30 our F-15s and F-18s can handle them. Our AMRAAMS and AWACS are second to none. The Chinese by the way have no AWACS. So they will not have any "help" when they try to take us on. They will not have the ability to vector aircraft correctly for maximum benefit. They are also about 15 years behind us in EW.
"China has never been an aggressor with regard to territorial or ideological expansion."
Tell that to the thousands of dead UN and US soldiers and marines that died in North and South Korea. No Chinese territory was violated yet they treacherously attacked UN and US forces defending South Korea.
You may want to also take that up with Taiwan, while they are threatend and blackmailed with growing hundreds of Ballistic Missiles 100 miles across the Strait.
Ideological? Are you kidding they force there own people to believe in the Party ideology and their manifestos and Maoisms state very clearly that world wide aims and goals.
"If treated in a non-hostile manner I suspect we have little to fear from them and may even benfit from closer contact as trading partners.
Yes, we can hope that they will come into the fold of nations and act responsibly, but their actions and threats against many do not give us great hope. I do believe we should trade with them and hope that their economic freedom eventually leads to a more open society and government...however, we should be careful with high technology that can be used for military purposes and we should also be wide-eyed in terms of China's past use of slave labor.
I don't know if you caught this Collen Powell comment, but I think you find this of interest.
There is nothing France from selling AWACS eventually. There is nothing stopping Russia from selling them and alot of other high tech weapons.
Our F-15s didn't do so well against the Su-29s? in the Indian AF...they didn't use the 30 models that they had. So, our aircraft are not invincible to good tactics and comparable aircraft...the 29s and 30 are much better at dogfighting and maneuvering than our aircraft...If China used J-8 to keep us busy, J10s and Su-30s could put us into some sticky situations.
Some clarification...They went Communist in 1949 and this sent them on a course contrary to their four thousand years or so history. Your examples are accurate but I still believe they are more inward looking than expansionist.
If I might add -
"In 10-15 years many see them challenging us in the Asian theater."
Where we be by then? Couple hundred F-22s, a 747 laser based system, at least 4 SSGNs, a few hundred JSFs, the
X-45 and X-47 UAVs will be in service. The "Tango Bravo" sub will probably be in business. The THAL will be in use.
The Navy will also have about 40 or so LCS vessels which are perfect for fighting in the PacRim. The USS George Bush will be out there.
And finally the ABM system should be fully up and running.
Believe me, I am not hysterical in the least, Communists like to rattle the saber, which they are doing now because IMO they are getting ready to settle the Taiwan dispute. Just pointing out they have to know what will happen if they would make good on this threat.
I think we have as much difficulty trying to understand and predict Communist courses of action as we do with regard to Middle Eastern nations. I am uneasy about "decisive" action that results in unpredictable reactions.
France can not sell AWACS to China under an EU treaty. They do that and we sell Taiwan a ton of stuff. The Soviet
AWACS is poor at best at this time. FWIW - France buys our AWACS. Do you think we sell them the whole package?
Did you know the rules of engagment during the excercise with India? We were not permitted to use our latest missiles, no AWACS and not the latest F-15 radar. No wonder they won. That excercise was used by the air force to get more F-22s. Which is fine with me as they are an incredible plane.
The USAF plan is not to dogfight. Using AWACS we go in under EMCON and launch AMRAAMs before they can do anything to us. We will fight BVR. That tactic maximizes advantage of our technology. The AMRAAM is guided by GPS cordiantes updated constantly. No radar, no warning to the bad guys. Only in the last 2 or 3 miles does the homing radar go active. They will hear the sound of the RWR go off, and then boom.
As to the Chinese airforce, one Arleigh Burke destroyer has 96 launch cells. We can put 4 ESSMs in one cell. The Japanese who will be in this will have about 8 Kongo class destroyers, which are like large versions of the Arleigh Burke. And one PAC-III battery has 128 missiles. We just deployed a battery around Tokyo. We also are selling several batteries to Taiwan, to add to their PAC-II patriot batteries.
Hey, as long as we are vigilant...I have faith in our military and engineering. But, it is critical to keep our tech lead...and that means not being unrealistic. Beware of our Euro friends sending them hitech military systems.
Agree 100%. And W and Rummy have been a lot more vigilant than BJ.
In the case of China I think you might be right. But the Muslims are a different matter. They are to irrational. I do not get a warn fuzzy from the Iranians or Saudis have nukes. Too many extremest in each country.
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