The Fighting Scots-Irish

Reason ^ | July 2005 | Charles Oliver

[Bar-Face]

Damn, I wish I had said that!

[Between the Lines]

Thought you might find this thread interesting.

[ßuddaßudd]

bump for ancestral reading later. . .

[LoudRepublicangirl]

any Fergusons in this bunch?

My great grandfather was.

[Ghost of Philip Marlowe]

Some good quotes.

To compare contemporary illegal drug manufacturers and other law breakers to those whose rebellion was against tyranny is an insult to patriots and glorifies villainy.

[LibKill]

Hmmm. OK. I will stereotype and flame away! I have my asbestos undies on. :)

Scots: Stereotypically hard working, intelligent, and could teach stubborn to mules, or even rocks.

Irish: : Stereotypically passionate, ready to fight at the drop of a hat, and then make a poem/song about it.

Mixing the two blood lines is like mixing nitric acid and glycerine.

You wind up with nitroglycerine.

:)

[Yardstick]

Reason has problems that way. It tends to represent the "metrosexual" urban wing of libertarianism, and doesn't know what to do about the country cousins.

Right, there's Reason and there's Liberty, the two libertarian magazines. In my libertarian days, I always preferred the frumpier, geekier Liberty (I hope I haven't gotten the two reversed). I always kind of felt like Reason was written for the more left-leaning libertarian crowd.

[x]

Reason is published in Los Angeles, and they tend to reflect the current California mindset. Its current editor got much flack a few years ago for Internet parodies aimed at Catholicism and other religions. I don't know where Liberty is published, but they tend to be sounder on social and cultural questions and a lot less sophisticated at publicity and graphics.

Liberty represents a sane medium in contrast to Reason on the one side and LewRockwell.com on the other. They get deeper into the nuts and bolts of libertarianism than their competitors, but you don't have to be a libertarian to agree with them about some key issues.

Urban libertarians need their country cousins if they're going to make any headway, but it could be that the two groups have less in common with each other than they do with their fellow urbanites or country-dwellers. US politics have gotten a lot more divided between red and blue states in recent years, and the libertarians haven't been immune to the developments.

[MissAmericanPie]

ROFL

[FierceDraka]

Black Irish, right here!

I can usually tell one of my distant kinfolk by their hair color (black) and skin tone (darker than the average Euro), with dark brown eyes. When I talk to them I find that their ancestors came up from the South to Indiana in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, just like my own did.

Howdy, Cousin!

[Chewbacca]

Andrew Jackson is my favorite President next to Washington because of his hate for bankers.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[devolve]

TR, FDR, and Eleanor (Eleanor was a distant cousin of TR) are decendants of Englishman Francis Cooke - who married Hester Mahieu in Amsterdam - and their son John Cooke

Others decendants are George HW Bush and George W Bush

Barbara Bush is decended from the English Spencers - making George W Bush related to both parents of Di and Charles -

The Cookes and Spencers were both part of the original Mayflower party -

The Bush family is also related to Clan MacLeod/McLeod, Dunvegan, Isle of Skye - which orginated in Scotland with Viking Leod the Black - of Norwegian royal blood - who married the daughter of a Danish knight - who gave the Isle of Skye to Leod the Black as a dowry -

John Kerry (Kohn) is also a distant cousin of George W Bush - but Kerry and his idiotic staff PRed his Frenchie ancestry - and blew the Mayflower and Brit royal bloodlines - which are obviously worth more votes than the French Connection - which was opposing us in Iraq! Kerry also promoted his Charlemagne ancestry - big deal - most Europeans after six generations are related to royals and more distantly related to Charlemagne!

Calvin Coolidge, Winston Churchill, Humphey Bogart, Marilyn Monroe, and John Alden are also in this "mix".

The currently living Roosevelts and Bushs are not listed on the genweb site - for obvious security and privacy reasons -

FDR is actually decended from three Mayflower ancestors. Guess somebody did some heavy research.


Funny side note - Kerry is distantly related to VP Dan Quayle!


http://whipple.org

I'm one of over 65,000+ on this genweb site - throw a dart and take a shot


- Incidentally - about 25% of American citizens have Mayflower roots - 85% of my HS and college classmate's surnames appear on whipple.org

That means many reading this will find some family surnames on this website


One being Oliver Colt - an ancestor of Col. Saml Colt - abt. 1550

http://genweb.whipple.org/d0074/I11222.html

[tinamina]

Thanks! I'm enjoying it very much.

[redangus]

A good read, but probably a little white washing of some of the more negative aspects of the Scots-Irish. There is another book which I can't remember the name of about the Scottish Enlightenment and its affect on the founding of this country which I would consider a must read.

For the record- English(saxon)/Irish(southern Catholic) on my dad's side and Scot(highland)/German(Bavaria) on my mom's.

[ntnychik]

One of my new acquisitions.

[devolve]

Negatives?

My Quaker grandmother had an ancestor who was hung for stealing a horse in New England.


I never sugar-coat anything -

[potlatch]

[potlatch]

I never sugar-coat anything

Especially not salsa and Corona!!

[truth_seeker]

"Webb notes that some of the Scots-Irish made their way to Massachusetts in the early 1700s, thinking the Puritans would welcome them as fellow Calvinists."

In 1718 to be exact, five ships arrived from Londonderry, at Boston. Among them my ancestors.

One community they formed is Londonderry, NH. Later mine went to Falmouth, Maine.

Later still (1750s) mine went across to Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia to help the crown "plant" the north, to diminish the French (Acadian) influence.

In 1856 my ancestors moved from New Brunswick to Monticello, Minnesota. A much different route from the mainstream Scots-Irish (or Ulster Scots as they are called everywhere but the US).

As to mixed heretige, my ancestors in Nova Scotia wrote of their Viking roots. They carried an ancient Celtic name, derived from a village in Ayreshire, Scotland; a sept of clan Douglas.

But these people called themselves "Irish" up in Canada.

The term Scots-Irish only came into use when the famine Catholics came across. These folks had been dubbed the "niggers of Europe."

So the protestants "Irish" that had come over 100 years before coined the term "Scots-Irish" to define their difference from the recent mainly catholic Irish arrivals.

Back in Ulster in 1798, the protestants and catholics rose up together, against the British but were defeated. The northern counties of Ireland have fascinating history, dating to the earliest Christian centuries.

In America many people that came directly from northern England and Scotland wound up falling in among the Scots-Irish and being so labeled.

The Border history is fairly distinct and separate from the migration from Scotland to Ireland.

The Celtic language has two main groups. One is Irish/Scottish. The other is Welsh/Breton. And they play pipes in the Spanish province of Galicia.